What did I do wrong? Head valves and piston damage

[DestinyAscension]

Greetings to all the community. I apologise for my bad English since it's not my native language. The DSM community in my country is much more restricted to newcomers.

I own a Hyundai Elantra J1 1994 for almost five years. There is a lack of manuals in my native language to this car, so I did almost every step in Hyundai Elantra 1.6-English manual which is almost the same as 2.0 DSM N/T, but the second one obtains much more info and detailed steps in itself and that's how I fell in love with Mitsubishi and DSM (Eclipse 1g especially).

My car is equipped with G4CR 1.6, the engine turned out to be junk. The repair couldn't be done as it was told by the machine-shop (workshop that deals only with engine heads). So I had to buy another DOHC Mitsubishi 4G head (The DOHC Galant 1990 E33). I've search a lot on info about compatibility of parts. Everything was assembled by me carefully and with precision.

I've installed this head with new head bolts, new timing belt and tensioner. I've used a cordless drill with 14mm socket to pump oil from the pan up to the lifters to test if the oil gallery to head wasn't clogged. It wasn't.

I've set correctly the timing belt and my tensioner pin was freely to move in and out. I let it stay for a night. The next day I've checked the timing marks, everything was great. I spinned the engine like 6 times. The marks stayed. It spinned freely despite there was a moment once in a one full rotation of crankshaft. And that "moment" felt like very stiff, but I managed to use my 30cm hand ratchet to overcome it, felt like a lifters to me. I think if valves would hit the piston I wouldn't be able to rotate the engine anymore.

I did all the other alternator belt and other stuff. Started the engine, it started great, but there was a ticking noise like lifters, but louder. I've made a plan for the next day to make a first warm-up cycle. I've came the next day, the car just wasn't starting whatever I do, the battery was great, the engine didn't respond to any CAS rotation, to any MAF/TemperatureSensor disconnecton. The spark plugs were completely covered in fuel, I put the older ones which were okay. It started easily, but the sound was really bad, like metal to metal. I let it idle for a minute, loud BOOM and it stalled.

The spark plug on the 1st cylinder was damaged. I've taken the rocker cover. On 1st cylinder one rocker one the intake valves fell of and cracked, the other cracked but stayed in place. Today I took off the head and saw this. The intake valves were making constant contact with pistons and the first piston is shredded.

I don't understand what I did wrong. As I remember I checked all the timing marks before first start. Once again, I wouldn't be able to rotate the crank 6 times or probably more. The tensioner is rock-solid. Now I feel depressed since I tried my best to build it good. The cam gears as far as I know are identical, I put the 151 tooth 4G61 brand-new Dayco T-belt. The balance shafts were deleted. I am here to ask for help, what did I do wrong? Thanks for any pieces of advice!

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[pauleyman]

You can see the witness marks on all the pistons. Did you bleed the lifters down before install? Did this head have the correct cams installed? You definately hit valves in all cylinder. Either something wasn't assembled correctly or you incorrectly tensioned the belt and it skipped time. Possiby left something loose etc. It happens. If you plan to fix this source the correct head and cams for your car. Looks bad. Did you have this head checked before you put it on?

 

[motomattx]

Those pistons don't look as deep as a DSM piston would, might just be the angle though.

 

[BoostinAWD]

That valve lift on cylinder #2 seems a bit excessive with the camshaft still in place.
I have a couple heads laying around with the camshafts in place and cam caps torqued and I don't see nearly that amount of valve lift in a resting state like I see in that picture.

I could be completely wrong on this. Is it possible the intake and exhaust camshafts are flipped? ie. intake camshaft in the exhaust side and exhaust camshaft in the intake side?

Something like that has never crossed my mind before. But that amount of lift tells me something isn't right with the intake camshaft. Hopefully you can get it sorted out, that's some serious damage. Valve guides are likely toast and cylinder #1 chamber and valve seats as well. Not to mention that damage on Cylinder #1 on the engine block doesn't look good at all.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Either way with all that damage find some spare stuff, I had a head with mismatched valve guides caused me a issue before dyno day. So had to have another one sourced and rebuilt it. See if you can find some parts, i got some resources to help you if you need a head, at least.

 

[DestinyAscension]

You can see the witness marks on all the pistons. Did you bleed the lifters down before install? Did this head have the correct cams installed? You definately hit valves in all cylinder. Either something wasn't assembled correctly or you incorrectly tensioned the belt and it skipped time. Possiby left something loose etc. It happens. If you plan to fix this source the correct head and cams for your car. Looks bad. Did you have this head checked before you put it on?

No, the lifters (1g with tiny nozzle) were pre-filled by the machinist, I have asked him did I really have to bleed them like people say and he answered that no. I wouldn't be able to rotate the crank 6+ times.

The cams are 4G63 Galant, I've seen people swapped the head completely. So did I due to my G4CR camshaft excessive worn on the lobes that made them like wobble in places. I've checked the torque on cam-caps and they were nice, the camshaft to gear bolt and other things. It let me worried a bit that I overtightened T-belt. The G4CR valve length are the same as 4G63 109.5mm.

The things I suppose could be wrong are:
1) Maybe the machinist put 4g69 112mm valves or
2) The intake camshaft toe is higher by 1mm 34mm (stock G4CR) and 35mm (Galant).

But I could rotate the crank not hitting valves with pistons. Thanks for the reply

That valve lift on cylinder #2 seems a bit excessive with the camshaft still in place.
I have a couple heads laying around with the camshafts in place and cam caps torqued and I don't see nearly that amount of valve lift in a resting state like I see in that picture.

I could be completely wrong on this. Is it possible the intake and exhaust camshafts are flipped? ie. intake camshaft in the exhaust side and exhaust camshaft in the intake side?

Something like that has never crossed my mind before. But that amount of lift tells me something isn't right with the intake camshaft. Hopefully you can get it sorted out, that's some serious damage. Valve guides are likely toast and cylinder #1 chamber and valve seats as well. Not to mention that damage on Cylinder #1 on the engine block doesn't look good at all.

It just stayed with cam's toe pushing valves to open cycle. Nope, the exhaust cam has the place for CAS just like in G4CR Elantra and DSM's. The intake camshaft's toe is 1mm higher than my stock cam. I believe I wouldn't be able to turn crank 6+ times in this case. Luckily the cylinder walls were not damaged.

Thanks

Either way with all that damage find some spare stuff, I had a head with mismatched valve guides caused me a issue before dyno day. So had to have another one sourced and rebuilt it. See if you can find some parts, i got some resources to help you if you need a head, at least.

I suppose there could be a mismatch in guides or valve length but my machinist is reputable, seen like 15 heads laying in his workplace. Hope that was not the issue.

Thanks for offering help, but the shipping to my country could be a pain for both of us, unfortunately I have to stay with what I got now.

Thanks for the reply

Those pistons don't look as deep as a DSM piston would, might just be the angle though.

To me they look almost identical, but the bore is different, it would let me know if I mismatched parts and the crank wouldn't spin.

Thank for the reply

 

[DSMPT]

there was a moment once in a one full rotation of crankshaft. And that "moment" felt like very stiff

This means the timing was set wrong from the beginning or the belt skipped while you were rotating the crank or the parts are mismatched. I don't know what exactly you did but anyways the timing components installation was not done as it should. Most likely the stiff part you mentioned was occurring every half a crank rotation.

I managed to use my 30cm hand ratchet to overcome it, felt like a lifters to me

I imagine that you already bent the valves slightly at this moment. If the stiffness is caused by lifters or valve springs, usually you hear some sort of cracking sound when you pass that stiff part and it wouldn't occur again at the same point..

I think if valves would hit the piston I wouldn't be able to rotate the engine anymore.

Rotating by a wrench, yes you would be able to. The valves get bent easier than you imagine. The valves are angled and they don't need to be bent all the way. It just requires to be bent slightly to let the piston pass through from the interference.

I put the older ones which were okay. It started easily, but the sound was really bad, like metal to metal. I let it idle for a minute, loud BOOM and it stalled.

Next time if you feel something is not right, just don't start the engine. The piston to valve clearance gets much smaller as the engine is running and the damage would be much much worse.

 

[Robedom]

That valve lift on cylinder #2 seems a bit excessive with the camshaft still in place.
I have a couple heads laying around with the camshafts in place and cam caps torqued and I don't see nearly that amount of valve lift in a resting state like I see in that picture.

I could be completely wrong on this. Is it possible the intake and exhaust camshafts are flipped? ie. intake camshaft in the exhaust side and exhaust camshaft in the intake side?

Something like that has never crossed my mind before. But that amount of lift tells me something isn't right with the intake camshaft. Hopefully you can get it sorted out, that's some serious damage. Valve guides are likely toast and cylinder #1 chamber and valve seats as well. Not to mention that damage on Cylinder #1 on the engine block doesn't look good at all.

Today my tuning shop called me and sent pictures of a similar thing. The engine was assembled incorrectly and the cam shaft caps were on the wrong side bending two of the valves. There could have been a mix up just like your saying here above.. just happened to me

 

[DestinyAscension]

This means the timing was set wrong from the beginning or the belt skipped while you were rotating the crank or the parts are mismatched. I don't know what exactly you did but anyways the timing components installation was not done as it should. Most likely the stiff part you mentioned was occurring every half a crank rotation.


I imagine that you already bent the valves slightly at this moment. If the stiffness is caused by lifters or valve springs, usually you hear some sort of cracking sound when you pass that stiff part and it wouldn't occur again at the same point..


Rotating by a wrench, yes you would be able to. The valves get bent easier than you imagine. The valves are angled and they don't need to be bent all the way. It just requires to be bent slightly to let the piston pass through from the interference.


Next time if you feel something is not right, just don't start the engine. The piston to valve clearance gets much more less if the engine is running and the damage would be much much worse.

Thank for the reply! The stiff moment happened once in every full rotation of a crank. At that moment the only noise I heard was like oil comes out of lifters with a bit of a pressure, nothing metal on metal. But It didn't disappear for the 2nd or 3rd rotation. The head was like a brand new, so I thought it was normal.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Today my tuning shop called me and sent pictures of a similar thing. The engine was assembled incorrectly and the cam shaft caps were on the wrong side bending two of the valves. There could have been a mix up just like your saying here above.. just happened to me

Mismatching cam caps will NOT BEND VALVES. The cams rotate in the head and mismatched caps would just make turning the cams much harder. NOT bleeding your HLA's WILL BEND VALVES.

 

[DestinyAscension]

Mismatching cam caps will NOT BEND VALVES. The cams rotate in the head and mismatched caps would just make turning the cams much harder. NOT bleeding your HLA's WILL BEND VALVES.

Can you please explain me that? Wouldn't lifters be pumped the next 3 sec the oil pressure is present?
I've read that after buying new lifters we HAVE to bleed them due to pumped oil in them is low-compressive and could cause damage not letting it all out. Mine were filled with regular motor oil like 5w30 5w40.

 

[miliman13]

I know this must be very frustrating for you, we have all been there in some form.

I once bent all my valves on a new engine because I made a mistake too.

Yours was not bleeding the lifters

Let me explain the lifter has a min and max length , you bleed them because they need to be initialized, set to zero let’s say for expression the idea .

Yes they will fill up and pressurize very quickly ( while installed ) this pressurized installed length, will always be less than the max length possible.

Yours were extended because they were not constraint, squeezed together, think of how the timing tensioner works and why there’s a pin in it.

One thing I recommend for peace of mind, is to check your PTV clearance by both using puddy in the chamber and linear travel with a dial indicator.

This way it won’t matter what part is interacting negatively with another part, just focus on the basic principle.

Very smart to use a drill to verify oil flow!

 

[Robedom]

Mismatching cam caps will NOT BEND VALVES. The cams rotate in the head and mismatched caps would just make turning the cams much harder. NOT bleeding your HLA's WILL BEND VALVES.

Thanks for the info. My eclipse has been garaged for 26 years. I got the car to start but it wouldn't idle so that’s when I sent it to the shop. They got it running with a base map but it was super rough. They found that cylinder 1 had no compression. This engine was fully built 26 years ago, but has never seen the road. When the mechanic opened the head up he found that two valves weren’t closing all the way, then he sent me a video where the cam caps were all mixed up and in the wrong locations. He said we will limit have to replace a couple valves. He did say previously that sitting for 26 years without turning over at all would likely rust it.

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