1G Weird No Spark Issue Link G4x & COP

[Evo_This]

Having an issue I can't track down, for some reason I randomly lost spark to the car. Here's the cliff notes of what I've done so far to solve it:

Spark plugs replaced
(COP system, no PTU) Coils replaced -
CAS replaced
MPI relay replaced
ECU replaced

MPI powers fuel pump (clicks on prime, clicks off at stop)
ECU fully boots up and can connect to it, CEL comes on/Boost gauge to zero
IGN, MPI, #19 fuses good
12v to each coil connector with key on

Power doesn't seem to be the issue but signal to fire is. If I take the CAS out and turn by hand the injectors fire so the CAS is working, what am I missing?
Car was idling for about 10mins, went to move the car and it stalled. Will not restart. Any assistance would be appreciated.

 

[DSMPT]

Could be related to PTU.

 

[Tyeler18]

I'd also guess PTU, if you have an LED test light it's easy to verify functionality.

 

[Evo_This]

Could be related to PTU.

I'd also guess PTU, if you have an LED test light it's easy to verify functionality.

Sorry forgot to add I no longer have a PTU due to the COP setup.
I updated the post.

Any ideas or pointers I may have missed?

 

[steve]

Any ideas or pointers I may have missed?

Sure, what kind of COP are you running that doesn't need a PTU or a CDI box?

 

[Evo_This]

Sure, what kind of COP are you running that doesn't need a PTU or a CDI box?

Running the Antilag Racing kit, been using it for about four years now without a problem.

 

[Tyeler18]

Do you have an LED test light? It has to be LED, not an incandescent bulb. If so clip it to the 12v battery post, probe pin 2 on the coils, while cranking does the test light flash while cranking? If yes, does pin 1 light while probing with the test light connected to 12v?

 

[Evo_This]

Do you have an LED test light? It has to be LED, not an incandescent bulb. If so clip it to the 12v battery post, probe pin 2 on the coils, while cranking does the test light flash while cranking? If yes, does pin 1 light while probing with the test light connected to 12v?

No LED light, I am using the ignition testing mode in Link G4x and nothing. If I crank with the plug out, also nothing.

 

[Tyeler18]

No LED light, I am using the ignition testing mode in Link G4x and nothing. If I crank with the plug out, also nothing.

Sounds like its time to buy an LED test light and do the testing I listed

 

[Evo_This]

Sounds like its time to buy an LED test light and do the testing I listed

Okay so what is this testing? What do the results mean?

 

[Tyeler18]

Okay so what is this testing? What do the results mean?

If pin 1 doesnt light when testing you've lost your ground, if pin 2 doesnt pulse while testing then you have no output from the ecu. You have 12v to the coils, the other 2 wires need to be tested to verify whats going on.

 

[Anfurnyy]

No LED light, I am using the ignition testing mode in Link G4x and nothing. If I crank with the plug out, also nothing.

So just to clarify when you use the spark test feature in the G4x, it doesn't spark? Did you ground your plug while testing?

 

[Evo_This]

If pin 1 doesnt light when testing you've lost your ground, if pin 2 doesnt pulse while testing then you have no output from the ecu. You have 12v to the coils, the other 2 wires need to be tested to verify whats going on

Testing kit coming in today. If it's pin 1, where's the ground in question? I don't believe it's the ecu because I have tried another known good one with same result. However that does make the ground situation more likely.

So just to clarify when you use the spark test feature in the G4x, it doesn't spark? Did you ground your plug while testing?

Correct, nothing when testing. No sound, arch, heat, no clicking of relays, nothing. Yes for the plug.

 

[Anfurnyy]

Correct, nothing when testing. No sound, arch, heat, no clicking of relays, nothing. Yes for the plug.

That just straight sounds like either an ECU or grounding issue. Do you have your coils setup on on a relay and or fuse?

Check ground continuity between ECU and ground?

 

[Evo_This]

That just straight sounds like either an ECU or grounding issue. Do you have your coils setup on on a relay and or fuse?

Check ground continuity between ECU and ground?

What ground should I check?

I swapped the ecu, same issue. Everything works but spark signal, voltage at the coils but not firing.

 

[Anfurnyy]

What ground should I check?

I swapped the ecu, same issue. Everything works but spark signal, voltage at the coils but not firing.

You should have 3 wires on the coils right?

1 switched 12v (always on when the key is on)
1 ground
1 5v trigger from ECU.

Use a test light to see if the trigger wire is even getting signal from the ECU. A multimeter won't work because the signal is too fast for it to register and display mich. If the light doesn't flash then you've probably got a break somewhere in the signal wires. Seeing as it sounds like all 4 won't fire so it would have to somehow be all 4 broken which seems unlikely.

If it does get signal then you've probably got a bad ground somewhere from the coil to ground. You could ohm from each ground wire on the connector side to a good common ground and see if you get good continuity or not.

Have you tried a new coil yet too?

 

[Tyeler18]

Testing kit coming in today. If it's pin 1, where's the ground in question? I don't believe it's the ecu because I have tried another known good one with same result. However that does make the ground situation more likely.


Correct, nothing when testing. No sound, arch, heat, no clicking of relays, nothing. Yes for the plug.

No clue how the antilag coils are wired, my coils are wired to the block but I built my own on my cars

 

[Evo_This]

You should have 3 wires on the coils right?

1 switched 12v (always on when the key is on)
1 ground
1 5v trigger from ECU.

1 & 2 have four wires, 3 & 4 have three.

Use a test light to see if the trigger wire is even getting signal from the ECU. A multimeter won't work because the signal is too fast for it to register and display mich. If the light doesn't flash then you've probably got a break somewhere in the signal wires. Seeing as it sounds like all 4 won't fire so it would have to somehow be all 4 broken which seems unlikely.

This there a central ground they all feed from?

If it does get signal then you've probably got a bad ground somewhere from the coil to ground. You could ohm from each ground wire on the connector side to a good common ground and see if you get good continuity or not.

Have you tried a new coil yet too?

Yes, full new set.

 

[Evo_This]

No clue how the antilag coils are wired, my coils are wired to the block but I built my own on my cars

It uses the wiring from the PTU connector for it's power/grounding source.

 

[Tyeler18]

It uses the wiring from the PTU connector for it's power/grounding source.

Black wire on pin 3 is the ground for the coils.

The wiring for these is a 12v power, dedicated ground, ECU trigger which is what actually fires the coil and then the 4th wire is used as a tach output since the PTU normally runs the tach.

Since these are waste spark stock you only tag 2 opposing coils for the tach output hence why only 2 coils have a 4th wire.

 

[Anfurnyy]

Black wire on pin 3 is the ground for the coils.

The wiring for these is a 12v power, dedicated ground, ECU trigger which is what actually fires the coil and then the 4th wire is used as a tach output since the PTU normally runs the tach.

Since these are waste spark stock you only tag 2 opposing coils for the tach output hence why only 2 coils have a 4th wire.

Totally forgot about the tach output.

 

[Evo_This]

So after multiple test runs, some frustrating results, and one briefly shocking experience I have narrowed down all these symptoms to a broken-down solder joint on the ground wire to the cop harness. Going to clean and repair this weekend so hopefully see her fire back up.
Thank you @Tyeler18 & @Anfurnyy, I gained some knowledge and new a tool from your help.
Next is learning G4X, wasn't planning on using it yet but now that it's in I'm getting familiar with the software.

 

[Anfurnyy]

So after multiple test runs, some frustrating results, and one briefly shocking experience I have narrowed down all these symptoms to a broken-down solder joint on the ground wire to the cop harness. Going to clean and repair this weekend so hopefully see her fire back up.
Thank you @Tyeler18 & @Anfurnyy, I gained some knowledge and new a tool from your help.
Next is learning G4X, wasn't planning on using it yet but now that it's in I'm getting familiar with the software.

Good deal! Hopefully that should fix it.

Link is definitely complex. It does also support sequential ignition too so instead of using wasted spark setup you can fire each coil directly. I think there some some optimizations to be had with that over wasted spark but I think you'd have to rewire a few things and configure the ECU.

 

[Evo_This]

Good deal! Hopefully that should fix it.

Link is definitely complex. It does also support sequential ignition too so instead of using wasted spark setup you can fire each coil directly. I think there some some optimizations to be had with that over wasted spark but I think you'd have to rewire a few things and configure the ECU.

I was looking at that. I'm going to reach out to Antilag and see if he makes a sequential harness.
Yes the system is more complex than expected coming from Dsmlink, can get lost in the menus. Did you set yours up yourself?

 

[Anfurnyy]

I was looking at that. I'm going to reach out to Antilag and see if he makes a sequential harness.
Yes the system is more complex than expected coming from Dsmlink, can get lost in the menus. Did you set yours up yourself?

I set configured mine all up with the inputs and outputs and what not. But I have a plug n play g4+. BUT mines got all sorts of extra stuff like drive by wire, kiggly 12-1 trigger wheel, evospec crank sensor, a clutch slipper. All sorts of stuff

I didn't tune my car though. I have dabbled in it a bit. Enough to get my car running and driving and light pulls.