Wanting More N/T Power [Merged 9-18-09]

[GSGoinFast]

I don't think I was that off, I was also calculating a forged crank 1200 and new headstuds 399, and since you never reuse engin harware, you got to budget for that, we are up to 3 grand in engine mods, then If he wwanted cams , he probably needs a new water pump.
Dont just budget for the parts budget for the things you MIGHT need during the install, or else the car sits waiting for more cash.

a forged crank would be pointless. what did hahns fail at? something like 500hp? or are they still using the stock one i cant remember...

and cams arent a necessity, im calculating necessities

 

[Redmachine]

a forged crank would be pointless. what did hahns fail at? something like 500hp? or are they still using the stock one i cant remember...

and cams arent a necessity, im calculating necessities

I guess I have different scope of thought, and I'm not trying to pick a fight, I just think if you are going to spend the money working the block why go half ass, why have a weak link? Yeah I know most 420a guys will not see the kinds of HP numbers hahns make, but why not do it the right way the first time, and in my case a crank replacement is a viable option due to milage(not sure if he stated his milage, but I'm at 147k)And all the little parts add up quick, you can only use the headstuds once, then while your in there do the timing , the water pump etc. I'm just syaing be prepared, and if your going to build a motor, build it right the first time.

 

[baseballer0688]

would a hahn stage 2 turbo kit still give me some good hp with an automatic transmission or should i go manual?

 

[Denji]

I think.....you should CONSIDER buying a turbo car. At least weigh the option. I did.
This opinion is not from some gs-t or gsx only owner who never owned a 420a and never knew how hard it was to part with.

1999-2004 age 16-20 i had a 1996 eclipse rs
2004-2005 age 20-21 i now have a 1996 talon tsi awd

sold the eclipse for 5000
picked up talon for 5500
500 dollars gets you what? turbocharger, and all wheel drive.. in my case power windows, power door locks, factory security system and the list goes on.

But hey, if you dont want to pay 1000 bucks (or less) for turbo and all wheel drive, more power to you. As a college student i believe in taking the easy way out.

In conclusion, i loved my 420a deeply. I spent 4 years with that car, i was very attached. Trust me, you wont miss it for long though when you trade it in. It took me about 3 shifts in the talon, hearing that blowoff valve and i no longer missed the rs!

P.S. insurance went up only about 5 dollars a month However i am sure there are people who kept the 420a that are happy with that decision as well. Its up to you man.

 

[IamCool]

To answer your question, IT would be cheaper to sell your car and buy a turbo eclipse gst or gsx(which ever one you like). You will save alot of money starting with a gst or a gsx than to make a n/t turbocharged and fast.

 

[GSGoinFast]

I think.....you should CONSIDER buying a turbo car. At least weigh the option. I did.
This opinion is not from some gs-t or gsx only owner who never owned a 420a and never knew how hard it was to part with.

1999-2004 age 16-20 i had a 1996 eclipse rs
2004-2005 age 20-21 i now have a 1996 talon tsi awd

sold the eclipse for 5000
picked up talon for 5500
500 dollars gets you what? turbocharger, and all wheel drive.. in my case power windows, power door locks, factory security system and the list goes on.

But hey, if you dont want to pay 1000 bucks (or less) for turbo and all wheel drive, more power to you. As a college student i believe in taking the easy way out.

In conclusion, i loved my 420a deeply. I spent 4 years with that car, i was very attached. Trust me, you wont miss it for long though when you trade it in. It took me about 3 shifts in the talon, hearing that blowoff valve and i no longer missed the rs!

P.S. insurance went up only about 5 dollars a month However i am sure there are people who kept the 420a that are happy with that decision as well. Its up to you man.

what was the milage difference?

here i could trade my GS with 70k miles for $8k. a 97 GSX with 108k miles was $12k! a 98 GS-T with 55k miles was origianlly priced at $17k then it sold for $13k but still thats rediculous. thats a 5 grand difference that i could turbo and rebuild my 420a and be alot faster. it all depends where you live i guess.

 

[Tcrut]

Hello everyone. i seem to have read so many posts on turbo ing a 420a. even so, still have a couple of questions.

i have a 97 Eclipse RS. its already pretty fast, but i would like just a little more power to play with. i've finally decided that im not going to buy another eclipse, im going to stick with what i got. the car has just over 100,000 miles on it. im not going to compete in this car, i use it for daily driving.

with this in mind, can anyone recommend what i should do? i seem to be reading lately that if i add a turbo kit, i need to go and swap out the internals. is that really necessary?

the only mods i have made so far are:

Magnaflow cat-back exhaust
MSD 8.5mm spark plug wires
Motegi 17'' MR7 Wheels

that's it. again, im just looking for some ideas here.

Thanks,

Tristan

 

[pr0]

The usualy bolt ons (headers, intake, udp, etc) won't give you much. Maybe like 10-15whp combined. That's probably what you would want to do if you aren't going the turbo route.

Swapping out the internals isn't required unless you are boosting over 9 pounds. If you stick with an HRC stage 1, the stock bottom end should hold up well.

 

[Tcrut]

I was looking at the HRC turbo options and the stage 1 looking right up my alley. i was reading a post on another thread about the fuel pump provided my HRC made a very high pitched sound while the car was operating. anyone know if this is true or not?

 

[Dave Chan]

i hope this helps???? i posted it up on another thread so i will just "cut and paste"

well i hope this will give you a general idea of some mods for the 420A

i'm not goign to type out the article... but i will give out the basic facts...here goes!!

TEST-01 BASELINE

119.2 HP
122.7 TQ

We hauled ass to the dynamic autosports dynojet and our session ended with 119.2 horses driving with 18 inch velox/falken combination, backed up with 122.7 foot-in-your-ass pounds of torque.

TEST-02 TUNE UP (Mobil 1 Synthetic and NGK BK7ES Spark Plug Set)

122.6 HP
124.4 TQ

with the magic of clean synthetic motor oil preferable (Mobil 1 synthetic) the 420A decided to shape up and let loose with a few extra horses and a little bit of extra torque. Keep your car running in good condition. Remember performance parts will get you there fast, but maintenance will make sure you can get there at all.

TEST-03 CAM GEARS

129.1 HP
130.8 TQ

Aries started tuning magic with these little red sprockets. The entire curve shifted up about 6-8hp all the way from the 2200rpm mark to redline. The biggest HP increases began at 4000rpm and gradually grew until redline. The beauty of cam tuning was abundantly clear as no rpm point was left unchanged for the better.

TEST-04 NITROUS (NX Express Single Fogger kit, jetted 50hp shot)

165.6 HP
168.4 TQ

A healthy dose of laughing gas brought the horsepower and torque numbers up to superstar levels. Increases of 30-40hp were immediately apparent across the graph and available torque was likewas shifted up into the 160lb-ft region. We can see that the car was truly happy after a shot of the giggle juice.

CONCLUSION

The 420A in the mitsubishi eclipse is a competent motor. Although not neccessarily tuned for performance from the factory, the addition of basic bolt-on parts can help unleash the horsepower and toque on this 2.0L motivator. Explioting the motor's strength, it's relattively high torque numbers, seems to be the key to getting the eclipse where it wants to go faster and quicker. So if you drive one of these machines. add some bolt-on goodies, stir in some laughing gas and shake well for a delicious performance meal.

also i wanted to add, it seems to be apparent here that all the graphs for each test,
the eclipse seemed to gain the most power starting at 4000rpm until 6500rpm

they also did a power pages on a 2001 Toyota MR-S
i just wanted to share this cause i thought it was pretty amazing......
the factory rated this car at 138hp so we expected the hp to be around the 110-117 mark figuring the drivetrain transfer loss. We strapped this car to the dyno and HP checked in at 124.7 while torque came in at 112.2. Apparently our test car has a motor built by happy assembly line workers.

 

[illuminatus]

Ok here is my plan for my car over the summer. I want to get as close to 250 HP as I can and I am well aware of the possibility of not being able to do so. I'd proabably be very happy with 200HP. Here is the list of mods I want to do:
- Straight intake pipe, prolly K&H (or cold air intake if I can find it anywhere)
- New intake manifold (still looking for these, mildoff.com looks like they'll have theirs soon.)
- Bigger exhaust headers (also also wik)
- High flow cat
- High flow cat-back exhaust

Not exactly sure how much of a gain I'd get out of this but currently I am at around 130 HP and I'm guessing this may give me about 30 more.

I'd love to put a turbo kit on the car too. I don't want any high boost stuff. I don't plan on racing this car or getting anywhere near the crazy high WHP I've seen many people have. I'd like to do no internal engine modifications and get an 8 PSI boost. However, I can't seem to find a turbo kit for an N/A 4g63. Anyone got any ideas where I can look or should I just stop looking and start looking into making my own?

 

[dsmracer_1991]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/tuning-guide/1gnt/
Here's the tuning guide. Good luck!

 

[illuminatus]

Yeah I know where the tuning guide is I just have no clue where to find these parts. Every search online yields plenty of results. Too bad all the tubo's are either upgrade kits for stock or kits for the 420A. Moreover, most of the parts I find online are for turbo engine's only. Even more dissapointing is that pretty much all visual mods I find are for the 2Gs.

So the question is where can I find these parts?

EDIT: Would the extreme turbo kit from here be an option?

 

[andymoraitis]

I would seriously IM Mavisky since he runs a 1st Gen N/T with a turbo. Perhaps he can give you some guidance as to how he went about it.

 

[illuminatus]

Those Hahn Stage II kits are for the 420A though Or am I mistaken?

 

[Defiant]

With the greatest regret, we really don't have time to take you shopping today.
You might inquire with any of our sponsors, or Google around for the various band-aids available for your goals.
Your best path -which we just can't get people to follow, apparently- would be to drive and enjoy your car as it is, with perhaps a cold-air intake and a header, and save the rest of the costs to put toward what you may really want, if that's a 2G or WRX or whatever.
There's not a great deal that can be done for the performane of the N/T cars.
Searching this site will show you what and how. However, you probably won't find much on a K&H intake.

 

[DkIcKmUrPhYs526]

Hey I have a 95 Mitsu Eclipse GS 420A. I have replaced just about everything including a clutch, tranny(5spd), and even rebuilt the head. I was thinkin about turbo-ing it until all the repairs ran me dry. I am flat broke and I need some suggestions for some cheap power that won't kill my gas mileage. So here's some questions I have:

1. Are the cheap $15-$20 ebay cold-air intakes any decent?
2. What are some cheap ways ($10-$100) to add some juice to my car?

I just recently did a tune up to my car (plugs, wires, coil pack, pcv valve). I didn't really need it but I put in my 2 weeks at Advance Auto Parts and figured I would take advantage of my discount. So please help someone.

 

[napkinthief]

Once a rookie, forever a rookie.

http://dsmtuners.com/tuning-guide/2gnt/

and the search button.

P.S. Cheap and decent don't go together.

 

[quiksilver38]

Hey I have a 95 Mitsu Eclipse GS 420A. I have replaced just about everything including a clutch, tranny(5spd), and even rebuilt the head. I was thinkin about turbo-ing it until all the repairs ran me dry. I am flat broke and I need some suggestions for some cheap power that won't kill my gas mileage. So here's some questions I have:

1. Are the cheap $15-$20 ebay cold-air intakes any decent?
2. What are some cheap ways ($10-$100) to add some juice to my car?

I just recently did a tune up to my car (plugs, wires, coil pack, pcv valve). I didn't really need it but I put in my 2 weeks at Advance Auto Parts and figured I would take advantage of my discount. So please help someone.

i got one of those ebay CAI its worth it not if you plan on getting pulled over th cops will notice it doesnt have the CARB sticker . for starters to get more free HP gut your cat after you smog it

 

[97EclipseGS-T]

Here is a couple of things I did with my Turbo car.

1) Grounding wire kit

-Some people say it doesnt work, but goddamn, it does. More of the difference is in the turbo cars but my friend has a 2G talon and he did it. In my car I felt more low end power, lights were BRIGHTER AS HELL, and starting the car and at idle is alot smoother. Even if you don't get much HP, I would still do it. There is a article around here that you can make a custom one with 4 guage sub wire. Search "Custom Grounding Kit"

2) Go to a machine shop and bore out your throttle body.

3) when you buy the intake, wrap it in exhaust heat wrap. It will keep the cold air in the intake pipe.

4) if you have headers, wrap those too

TIP: You only make HP in 3 ways. Air, fuel, and iginition. There is not a single person that can tell me there is another way. Pulley kits, clutches, flywheels only help get more of that crank HP to the wheels.

5) there is this mod in this forum that someone went to the trottle body and added a transistor to the connector. What it does is that the ECU reads air temperature with a voltage. Ex. 5 volts. The transistor tricks the ECU into thinking the air is colder (3 volts). The ECU therefore has to compensate for the change. It will add more fuel= more hp. Problem with this mod is you need to run premium gas at all times.

With a non-turbo car, I would try it for shats and giggles. You don't have to worry about boost. I wouldnt even ATTEMPT to try on a turbo car.

There is alot more custom mods, I'm just a single DSMer. Some of the stuff I state my not seem the best to others, but its what I can think at this moment.

 

[DkIcKmUrPhYs526]

Thanks for the suggestions...I'm startin to get some ideas...but by all means keep them coming. Any kind of suggestion is helpful. Throw in some appearance suggestions, too. This thread isn't just to help me it is also for the others who look at it. Thanks guys just keep them comin.

P.S.- How much is that throttle body porting about?
P.S.S.- I'm a newbie (obviously) so I have no idea how to gut my cat...so how much would it cost for a shop to do that? Or can someone give me a walkthrough on how to do it myself?

 

[SiL3NT]

Theres an article http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191940&highlight=jeep to put a bigger tb from a jeep on your 420a

 

[DkIcKmUrPhYs526]

Thanks...I think I might just go to a machine shop though and bore it to 52mm...maybe 55mm. Another question though...how would a hahn racecraft stage II turbo kit affect reliability? gas mileage? The reason I'm asking is I am most likely getting some graduation money and seeing as how I can't afford a new car...I might as well make mine nicer. What about getting the internals built? How much would that run for labor and everything? I was even thinking about (depending on how much dough I get) swapping a 4g63t engine and tranny in...would that be a better/more reliable route?

KEEP POSTING!!!

 

[Spoolin4Ever]

It's best to use a post for one or 2 questions, not every single question you you will ever have in your whole life about DSM's. People will get tired of spoon feeding every single little thing to you real fast.

Mostly all of this has been covered, there is a special forum, for people like you:

Tne N/T Forum! Go there and read the posts! Use the search feature.

Adding a turbo to your engine will give you worse gas mileage. It will probably make your car LESS RELIABLE. Turbos create much more heat then a non turbo car. That means shorter life expectancy on parts, including the engine. Or at the very least, it means more frequent oil changes and other maintenance.

Speaking of which: When was your timing belt done last?

 

[JLeach50]

I have used a transistor on my NT Eclipse, and yes, it really works. I felt a nice lil bump in HP (probably 8-10HP) and it only cost me $5 on Ebay!

Also, even though it's not really a cheap mod, pulley kits give the best bang for your buck. I saw a list awhile back (don't remember where) that showed how popular upgrades measured up when comparing HP to cost. Pulley kits were at the top, but turbos and exhaust systems were at the bottom. Also, pulley kits can actually help w/ gas mileage.