Wanting More N/T Power [Merged 9-18-09]

[DkIcKmUrPhYs526]

I talked to a guy at a DSM shop today who gave me some great ideas. He told me that turbo-ing a non-turbo is basically asking for trouble. It would do wonders with some head work though. Port and polish, valve springs, valves, cams, the whole works. The set up would run about $1200 to $1800 depending on how into it you wanted to go. This even included replacing the piston rings. He said I should expect a 40-50 hp gain with only about a 10 mile per tank decrease in gas mileage. He also told me it would even make my engine a bit more reliable as it helps it run more efficiently. What do ya'll think about these ridiculous damn gas prices? All because of some stupid ####ing hurricane.

 

[gsnoturbo90]

So i have a 90 gs no turbo and i wanna add more power. Would a new fuel rail pump and injectors give me any more horse power or just waste gas? what about valve and valve springs? I plan on adding pulleys it sayd they add good power but i have heard some not so good things, anyone have any advice, i am not ready for a turbo yet. thanks guys

 

[larsenracing]

exhaust, intake, wires, plugs, k&n air filter, pullies, cams, cam gears, ignition, safc, and so on start with the first 5 that will help. there is no need for injectors your stockers should be fine till you really get the power up and need them.

 

[TUI2I30]

^^agreed. But not necessarily in that order. Underdrive pulleys don't add power, they free up wasted power.

MAINTENANCE first! http://www.dsmtuners.com/tuning-guide/1gturbo/ applies to non-turbos as well!
wires/plugs
exhaust
intake/better flowing air filter/remove or modify air can
SAFC - to compensate for the previous mods
ignition
pullies
cams
cam gears

Search, search, search. It's all out there, even for N/T cars as well.

 

[DkIcKmUrPhYs526]

hey here's the deal. i've posted a forum about some high performance head work questions and did not really hear what i wanted to. i'm getting some grad money (hopefully) in the fairly near future and i wanna put some money into my car. the thing is slow as a fat guy running toward a broccoli tree so it definately needs some pep. i have a 95 420a 2g eclipse gs. i dont really wanna spend more than $3000 and i wanna hit about 200 hp at the wheels without NOS and stay reliable. so i would like to know my options for this and please...no 2GNT bashers...i've already heard the whole "sell yours and buy a turbo model thing". i have to keep what i have regardless and that is not an option. i just wanna make the best of what i have. so can someone please give me a little help?

 

[alex99gst]

For starters, dsmtuners already helps you out with what you are looking for here: http://www.dsmtuners.com/tuning-guide/2gnt/

 

[eclipse13]

If you want to hit 200hp without nitrous your best bet is going to be to turbo it. www.hahnracecraft.com makes a turbokit for 420A's. If you don't want a turbo kit, I doubt you can make 200hp, but you can make your car a little quicker and more fun to drive with intake, header, exhaust, underdrive pulley, cat, etc. Also check out www.2gnt.com for help with your car. PM me if you have any questions.

P.S.
Dint say words like NOS on here. It doesn't sit well with members here. Use nitrous unless you are actually talking about the company Nitrous Oxide Systems.

 

[DSMcrazy3]

Get the basics first Headers, intake and exhaust. Try to get them at once, you can't get the best of the sucking in, if you can't spit the extra out.

200 whp is VERY hard for 2gnt, but some things that can help you to that goal are: Bigger throttle body, cams, valvetrain and headwork(port and polishing).

That's about all that 3,000 will get you(labor included). Kinda depressing huh?
Most of us now-a-days are going to the turbo kits. The new trend is peicing one together yourself for around 1,000. So if you wanted to skip the cams, and valvetrain, you could do that and go boost.

Goodluck

 

[DkIcKmUrPhYs526]

thanks for the replies! keep em comin! sorry about the NOS thing...i was just being lazy and it was late. anyways i know i've said this in another post i did but not everyone posting here has read it. i was talkin to a guy in clearwater, fl about some head work and he told me there was a lot to be said about it. he told me that with port and polish, valve train, cams, other head work that i don't understand, CAI, headers, exhaust, AFX UD pulleys, and i was even thinking about getting it dyno tuned maybe even some computer mods (AF/X?) that i should hit the 200WHP mark. he also said while the head was off he would do the piston rings all for about $3000. do you all think his hp approximation is accurate? i was also thinking about just buying a HRC stage II and exhaust but i NEED to stay reliable (won't get another car for 4 years or so). don't wanna spend that much more than $3000 unless i go turbo which i'll spend MAYBE $4000.

P.S.- i'm a noob! and i cant do the work myself except like intake....so keep that in mind.

 

[Pezking]

Over here in Germany, turbo conversions are not done very often and usually most people go for na modding. I haven't heard about anyone doing it to an Eclipse ( wouldn't matter anyway since we had the 4G63 in the 2gs ), but if seen it with other car brands. You can get 200 hp from a 2.0 liter engine with what you already named. If that dyno tuning means you'll get a new eprom for your ecu, then you will be able to hit around 200 hp.

But don't expect to beat a stock turbo modell or a turbo-converted one.

 

[napkinthief]

So you want to get 200+ hp with 3,000. Its not that hard, but you need to put in a little wrench time and some work. First go to amazon.com and pickup a used copy of Haynes and Chiltons, should be able 25-40$ together shipped. Get both so you can see both ways of putting in and taking out parts. Autozone.com also provides an online manual if you want to be cheap and not buy the guides.

First of all, get the intake, go cheap $25 autozone brand intake cone, or get a K&N filter cone. I wouldn't recommened the hardpipe because you are going to go turbo to get your 200 hp. If you are feeling up to it at this point, upgrade your intake headers aswell. Don't do your exhaust headers, as you will just have to redo them again when you go turbo.

Next is your exhaust. You are going to want a 2.5"-3" from the downpipe back, with some kind of muffler that suites your audio pleasure. I like the deeper, more smooth sounding ones, rather than the honda rattlecan ones.

Now that you got your basics down, time to get the turbo going. Gather up a turbo, t-25 is fine for your n/a engine, some people go with 16g. The 16g comes with the Hahn kits. You dont need anything bigger than that because unfortunately, anything over 8-11 psi kills your engine. You want reliable so you want to stay around 8 psi.

Turbos heat the air, so you need an intercooler to cool the air off before it gets sucked into your engine. The piping for the intercooler can be bought at HomeDepot, but many people choose to just dish out hundreds for a UICP (Upper intercooler piping) kit. I have not gone turbo yet, but I will go PVCUCIP (PVC Upper intercooler piping ). You dont NEED an intercooler, but your engine will love you for giving it one.

So you got the turbo and the intercooler, you need to connect the turbo to the exhaust, which means its time for some new headers. There is a 1000$ turbo guide in the tech section, and he made his own exhaust manifold. I am planning to try to make my own but I am a little uneasy that my welding skills will hold up to my driving. Its your choice there.

Your turbo spins and therefore it needs oil. Oil is supplied to the turbo through an oil line kit, which is attached to your oil pan, located at the bottom of your engine. Drill it, weld it, reattached it with a plug in the hole.

Almost done right? No. Your 420a engine is nowhere near capable of pumping the fuel to your new compressed air setup. You need a new fuel pump (many people choose the walbro 190 or 255), some new injectors off a turbo dsm, and a new ecu to control the new turbo injectors. You also need a FMU to manage your fuel.

Now your set on the most basic parts of having a turbo up and running. You would also want to install a boost gauge to see how much boost you are running. A MBC, either electronic or manual, to manage how much boost you run.

That should be it for getting your 200 hp, maybe even more, I am not sure how much 8psi will pump your hp, but you will definetly break 200. If you are an auto tranny, I would also get a shiftkit, and I am getting a Translab kit in the mail right now, I will let you know how that turns out.

Your welcome.

 

[dr1665]

All I can say is wow.

First of all, 200whp has yet to be seen in a normally aspirated, stock displacement DSM. While it might be possible someday, it's likely not going to be very streetable, so it's not a goal you should pursue if you're looking for a dependable daily driver for the next four years. Your best bet for 200whp in a reliable DD 2GNT (if you are not mechanically inclined) is to get a stage 1 turbosystem from Hahn Racecraft, then pick up a used DSM sidemount intercooler from the trader and get some custom IC piping done for it. That will put you under $3000 and, providing you take care of the engine with proper maintenance, will last you a good long time. Another option you might have is to check both this site and 2GNT.com for 2GNTers local to you. I know of a couple guys in Florida who might be interested in helping you put together a turbosystem like Chris from here did that runs about a grand. You might only have to provide the parts and work space along with lunch and/or beer money.

Either way you go, you're going to have to invest in some decent tools and be prepared to do some maintenance yourself. You can do this sort of stuff yourself (especially the turbo system), but you have to take your time and be sure to do it right. With DSMtuners and 2GNT, you have two very high quality sources of information to help you resolve any problems you might encounter both with the build and daily operation of your car.

As for all this talk about what "will" make 200whp all motor in a 2GNT, unless you've got a dyno slip to back it up, then it's benchracing and total BS. There is nothing wrong with suggesting quality build theory for something other than a turbocharged engine, but to tack the "200whp" comments to it without stating that it will, at best, get you headed in the right direction is not cool. I have something like $6,000 invested into my 420A, which has been built all out for all motor results, and I'm hoping for 180whp on a good day. I still have a LOT of tuning to do.

Basically, the only way to state that X+Y+Z=200whp is to actually put it together on your own car, dyno it, and share your settings (ignition advance, AFR, cam timing, etc.). Otherwise, you're just talking out your ass like the rest of the unwashed masses.

 

[DkIcKmUrPhYs526]

thanks man. that helped sway me a little. i see your point about the "prove it" kinda thing. the guy does amazing work (i've seen some of it) so i trust him but i'm not sure hes had that much experience on 2gNT's. can you get me a way to contact your boys in florida? and another thing...is there any VERY SPECIFIC list on what to get for a custom kit and where to get it? thanks again bro.

 

[speedy13]

If you just want more pep in your car i feel with basic bolt ons like I/H/E/UDP/TB,blah,blah,blah and some nice streetcams maybe some 10's or 12's then your car will really start to feel alive,hell even without the cams it will still be a nice improvement.But you still won't be fast.I would take the Dr.'s advice and turbo.If your like me and see the right hand turn beyond the quarter mile,you'll need a decent street suspension setup,so a minimum of some AGX's and some nice lowering springs would be considered as well and don't forget some decent sized tires.

 

[DkIcKmUrPhYs526]

i am almost positive i'm gonna go turbo now...i've done some research and it's definately the best bang for the buck and if done right then i can stay reliable. i've been told that fmu's are crap and just make things worse and s-afc's are the way to go. the guy at sidewinder gave me a list of what i would need...it is gonna end up being about twice as much as i wanted to spend (probably gonna be about 3000-3500 with exhaust and install) but its gonna be a badass kit that it gonna last me a while. plus i know the first time i hear the turbo spool from under my hood as my car shoots to acceleration rates like never before...its all gonna be worth it. aaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh (sigh)...i cant wait. if you want me to post the parts list for the custom kit then just let me know. and ya'll keep posting tips for us noobs!

 

[fullmoon]

hey here's the deal. i've posted a forum about some high performance head work questions and did not really hear what i wanted to. i'm getting some grad money (hopefully) in the fairly near future and i wanna put some money into my car. the thing is slow as a fat guy running toward a broccoli tree so it definately needs some pep. i have a 95 420a 2g eclipse gs. i dont really wanna spend more than $3000 and i wanna hit about 200 hp at the wheels without NOS and stay reliable. so i would like to know my options for this and please...no 2GNT bashers...i've already heard the whole "sell yours and buy a turbo model thing". i have to keep what i have regardless and that is not an option. i just wanna make the best of what i have. so can someone please give me a little help?

Sorry to tell ya this but it cannot be done mabey to the fly but not to the wheels unless you have some form of boost at the most you will see 150 whp on average and be street legal I had the same dream too and trust me 27,161 and cannot be done unless I had boost was a hard pill to swallow
I did talk to a guy who has a dyno shop and he said he dynoed the guy at 225-265 whp or in that range but it was not street legal.
Mitsu did that to keep the 2 classes apart GS/RS and GS-T money money money!!!

 

[fullmoon]

Update I posted question like this one at another site and dude told me he spent $14,000 and he races in the 200 hp class but he has no top end, he says he gets guys out the hole everytime but he advises me to turbo it.
I'll be selling my slo GS in 08 if me and my family decide to stay in the Communist state of California and buy me a Cobalt Supercharged

 

[EDM95]

I was wondering how i can add more power to a 420a n/t?
Can you turbo a A/t and if so how ?
All i have is a short ram intake.
Why do i have to push the gas pedal all the way down to pick up speed?

 

[Shadow98]

USE THE SEARCH BUTTON!!!

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=272662

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181134

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84537

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163719

 

[15 sec gs]

I have a 93 Eclipse N/T and i was wondering what kind of things i can do to make alot of horse power really easy. i already have header, downpipe, high flow cat, and megan racing exhaust. I also have a cold air intake. i have read the upgrade path for non turbos and im at the end of it but I still want more power without turboing it. Is there anything else i can do. I would just like to have a crazy N/T i think it would be really sweet
thanks in advance,
Mike

 

[-LA-]

I have a 93 Eclipse N/T and i was wondering what kind of things i can do to make alot of horse power really easy. i already have header, downpipe, high flow cat, and megan racing exhaust. I also have a cold air intake. i have read the upgrade path for non turbos and im at the end of it but I still want more power without turboing it. Is there anything else i can do. I would just like to have a crazy N/T i think it would be really sweet
thanks in advance,
Mike

NITROUS !

 

[spoonman]

I did a good port and polish job on the head of my car when it was N/T and it definitely gave me more power, I do not know how much but you could really feel the difference in the top end. Also get higher compression pistons.

 

[outkastracing]

sell it and buy a turbo or put a 6bolt in it after you build it or just add juice

 

[dsmzoom]

first off n/t dont have downpipes. I agree on the polish, and juice is only going to shorten the life of your car depending on how much you run so in the end your better off selling it and buying a 4g63.

 

[big_d]

first off n/t dont have downpipes

What would you call it then?

I was in the same boat as you...I had the same modifications done, and was looking for a little more out of my n/t. I looked into nitrous, but with the lack of demand in my area, it was kind of hard to find...Also I was on a students budget and wasn't willing to put down the cash needed to build a n/a motor. I'm not by any means trying to tell you to sell it and buy a turbo car. I chose to turbo my n/t keeping the stock 9:1 pistons which not only helped the performance aspect, but I gained some knowledge on turbocharged dsm's throughout the way. My n/t was in excellent shape and I couldn't see selling it for next to nothing, and going to buy a beat on turbo car(didn't really have the extra cash for insurance either). All together i have about $750-800 in my "turbo kit". Finding deals at the right time and knowing where to shop helped these costs dramatically... big_d