UNRESOLVED dumb question, for you guys running LARGE turbos

[turboglenn]

Second EDIT: Big thanks to everyone who chipped in via this thread and PM'ing me to help me make the best of this turbo and actually learn how to properly utilize it

 

[gsxkid81]

sorry glenn i didnt see your question.i will help you as best as i can. you can pm me if you want

 

[e85_4g63]

Where are you posting questions? I haven't seen anything about large turbo's and boost...

 

[TSimage]

If he is referring to that P6776 in his profile.. That's far from a large turbo.

What was the question?

 

[turboglenn]

well, it's large for me anyway.. what i'm wondering is what normal people do to cope with the boost recovery? Are they shifting at such a high RPM that it will intantly spool in the RPM they land in after a shfit.

are they shiftin WOT or with NLTS or using nitrous? The lag after the shift is SO BORING i can't take it, but i don't really abuse my stuff since my injuries limit my work and my money to replace parts with these days

I had posted some other thrads asking about some things and every one of them went away, gone and un answeered that's why i edited this one figured it would do the same

 

[1997_GSX]

Link V3 adds an Antilag Between shifts feature while no lift shifting. The boost never drops with this activated. This was on my 6262 flowing 69lbs a minute.

Here's how laggy the .82a/r T3 JB 6262 was on my car. I was doing a log, not speed shifting or even trying to shift fast.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMjtIBsIZ7k&feature=channel_video_title


I have yet to install the T4 Garrett GT4094r Dual Ball Bearing turbo but it will be some time soon.

 

[Calan]

I'm on an HX40 pushing around 54-56 lbs/min...not huge, but not tiny.

I've never noticed a real problem with lag between shifts. One thing I absolutely know for sure though; if I don't recirc the BOV I get noticeable lag between shifts (running SD).

 

[turboglenn]

My haltech has a fully adjustable NLTS and anti-lag i can use but the thing is they as well as the nitrous for spool all use the same activation switch (so i have to choose which one i'd want and currently i have the laughing gas on that input)

and i am running SD with an HKS SSQV that's vented atmosphere, still need more 4" pipe to complete the new intake pipe

To me maybe it's my 264/272 cams or something but i'm having fun untill i shift then i'm mored again until about shift time again.

I need some bigger injectors and cams i'm thnking to really use this thing but i'd really like to sell this and get an hx-35 with some 1450 injectors to put in the place.. I don't need something as big as this turbo, it's fun but on the street with FWD it's not as enjoyable as something smaller

Just after the 2nd day having this on here i exploded my clutch doing a semi-lifted shift (probably shifted at about 75% throttle) from 3rd to 4th and i can't afford to keep exploding clutches to keep spool, I guess i could install the NLTS but then i'd have to run the nitrous manually (right now it comes on above 3700 RPM and doesn't turn off until the boost is at 26psi or 8750 RPM) kinda being used just for spool, but compared to the old 57 trim it seems to take a lot bigger shot to make this thing move cause there's still major lag in comparison

 

[BrokenTsi]

What type of gas are you using?

 

[turboglenn]

e85 all year round

 

[TSimage]

Everything mentioned will help.

Antilag, NLTS and higher shifting points all help with spool between and after gears. With a turbo the size of yours on a good tune, it shouldn't be such a problem..

 

[turboglenn]

A few points.. i don't feel anti-lag is great for a DD car, and the nitrous has to be turned on to work (open bottle at back of car) and the NLTS seems hard on parts, maybe i'm just too nice to my car

WEll, normally i would consider this a turbo for a 6 cylinder and not really so much something i'd put on a 4, but it felll in my lap and I ended up buying it because i didn't want to be "borrowing" a turbo and have something go wrong. My initial plan is to sell it for an HX-35 and some 1450 injectors but i may keep it if i can get satisfying results from it. ON the AWD it came off of the thing was a beast, but you had full traction in 1st and 2nd and it was hitting a lotof boost in those gears as well. (i tuned the EMS on that car as well and did a lot of the fab work) but the thing iswith AWD the thing spooled because it was loaded in 1st and 2nd gear, on my car( damn FWD ) there's hardly anything in 1st and 2nd because it stops spooling when i loose traction, which in a way is a tractioon blessing, because i spend a lot less time feathering things and trying to ride traction, i can just floor it and go.

But with the lag from 2nd to 3rd i just am not satisfied..if it came on in third faster i'd love it, but i don't like playing in the top of 3rd and 4th gears. ANd what i am figuring out is i don't know if i am stuck dealing with this crap 2-3 shift response (didn't pay attention to this aspect in the car it came off of because we were hauling ass already) or if i just need to man up and shift that bi*** harder/WOT or what... i've stepped to a 75 shot and even that doesn't spool it too fast and it would make my 57 trim hit instantly like a t25 with a 50 shot and a cold bottle

I will keep playing with it. I think there's more to the tuning of timing curve than i'm realizing maybe with something this size, i just don't know...sometimes i love this turbo, sometimes it depresses me

I've got DKS 264/272 cams with brian crower springs and retainers I usually shift it at about 7700 to 8200 when really wringing it out...(and sometimes spinds and revs past 9k RPM during traction loss) i just don't think my setup is proper for this turbo the more i think about it.. The 6 bolt block is wiseco 9:1 and eagle H-beam with ACL race bearings, and ARP head studs with a felpro composite HG

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

Simple. NLTS, and shift at 9k. If your valvetrain can't handle it, buy a better valvetrain.

 

[e85_4g63]

Are you using the 6776? (I saw something about that)? I forget what turbo your running...

 

[turboglenn]

yea, my 57 trim was beat up so i got a PTE6776RS BB turbo.. I'm not thinking that the 264/272 combo with brian crower springs and retainers is good for purposely shifting at 9k is it? if not some one is more than welcome to donate the funds cause i don't have em, i'm a half working cripple (litterally) it's all i can do to make ends meet. Got the turbo from a wealthy friend who could afford to buy the newest billet version and pass the 6776 onto me on a payment plan.

The issue with NLTS is i have to choose between that and haltech controled nitrous as they both use the same input

would having the secondary rev imiter at say 6k RPM activated off the clutch do as good a job at keeping boost up if i shifted WOT with the limiter engaged?

 

[firebirdvert305]

Glenn when running a 67mm+ turbo you have to be revving out the motor, specially on a 2.0L. You will have too be taking the rpms to atleast 8800rpms and utilize NLTS, in order to have good boost recovery. I too had a Billet 6765 on a FWD 1G, and I had BC 288/288 cams, those things were horrible. I threw in a set of kelford 272s and the car spooled 700rpms quicker and made almost identical power. Keep your cams, raise the rev limit, utilize NLTS (just try it out) and try to keep the car straight. The 67mm really isnt a bad turbo, on 37psi on the street my FWD was crazy, feathering 4th gear over 100mph on the highway was no fun with 12psi tire pressure on M&H drag radials...for this reason I went AWD.

 

[turboglenn]

Now that's an informative and helpfull answer, thank you sir! Having some one with almost the same setup and even FWD really gives me some hope to maybe keep this combo a little longer

 

[phunny]

At 60lbs per minute on my red even without using nlts I font really lose any boost. I did find that shifting at a higher rpm really isn't the answer if you've already left your efficiency range. I'm sure a stroked would help. I am getting ready to get rid of my fpred for something like you currently have

 

[turboglenn]

Not sure what an FPred is exactly but i'm looking something more along the lines of a rebuilt hx-35 7 blade with t3 housing and some injectors instead of keeping this one (that was my original plan to sell this and swap to the holset for street manners) and being this has still under 500 miles on it i thought i could sell it for enough to get an hx35 and some used 1450's

anyone interested????

 

[phunny]

I may be if I decided to pull and sell this setup soon. Here are some specs on the Red.

FP Red Turbo Specs | eHow.com

The one on my car made 617awhp on e85 when Jeff Bush owned it.

 

[turboglenn]

Welll, I added an intake pipe to the setup that helped majorly with power, spool and even how well the car revs out (hot radiator air sucks for power) There's a thread in the fab section of the intake i made from scraps \


I tried shifting at 8500, still granny shifting it but with the boost turned up to 32 psi things got CRAZY, i had some major spark blowout but my wires are REALLY old, and i'm on a stock set of old coils and BR8ES plugs gapped to about .021 (probably need to take em down to .017 or so) dwell time is being kept in check at 3.0ms, total ignition advance is about 21* up top, starting at 14* at 4500 RPM and into the 5k spool up range... i'm starting to have more fun and i'm liking it.... the tips have helped so thank you all!

__________________________________________________________

Ohmed out my magnecore wires and got 2.64 on the #1 shortest wire, I got about 4.5 ohms on numbers 2 and 3 and got about 6 ohms on the longest number 4 wire..

can anyone tell me if that is within spec? these wires are at least 7-8 years old but magnecores are the only wires that didn't start losing spark within a week of high boost pulls back in the day (accell and NGK were junk from auto parts stores)

UPDATE: Gapped the plugs to .017", boost set back to 30psi, will be going for a test drive shortly.

Weird thing is the housing bolts for the exhaust side of this turbo keep backing out repeatedly (never had this happen before) so today i bought a new T3 gasket and i think tonight or tomorrow i'm gonna take the turbo and manifold off and safety wire the hot side housing bolts for the CHRA and the 4 bolts from flange to manifold.

I'll update on the spark blowout whenn i get back from dinner with the family in an hour or 2

_______________________________________________________

UPDATE #2

WOW.. things got hairy, scary and f-in crazy with 33 psi, leaning out the top end some more and raising my shift point to 8800 as suggested earlier in the thread. I don't know how i'm making enough fuel to keep a 12.5 AFR at 32-33psi on this turbo (must be the small as 2.5 down pipe i'm stuck running for now) but some how the AFR"s arre correct, the car is pulling to the moon, shifting smooth and is a damn rocket.. now i finally realize or have learned how to drive a turbo this size (gotta rev it like my gsxr )

I added a 2 step function today, played with mapping, removed the DIS-2, changed some other configurations aroundin the ECU and am flat out enjoying this thing now.. (now i guess i can mark this resolved for real )

I took over 30 some odd feet of wiring out of my car, and mounted every "loose" toggle that had some odd purpose into a nice spot, flushed it out, even used some LED lights, went back and soldered anything that hadn'tbeen soldered in the past, put my nitrous controls in the dash as well as a 2 step, fan control and some other odds and ends. I even mounted the haltech global fuel trim knob into an OEM switch on the center vent to where it looks factory (tons of little stuff i've been meaning to get a round to doing for ages)

the gapping down and leaning the car out from high 11.8 FR"s at 32 psi into the 12.5 AFR's got rid of all spark blow out (no MSD needed i'm mad at that company anyway )

and i wasn't even pulling a shred of timing at 22* advance at 8500 RPM and 32-33psi, but i was scaring myself half to death on public roads, even making sure i was alone it was spooky just to do a test pull to 7500 in third (no way was i going 8800 and hitting fourth)

and another thing i was told that was dead nuts on about this turbo is it has to be run PAST 30 psi, it's like two different turbos with only a few psi difference.. i'm loving this thing..hoping the failpro HG and plain jane ARP's will hold til i can buy better

I have a doctors appointment to go to, gonna pull some logs on the LONG highway stretch on the way out there, thanks agian for the help everyone

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

Be prepared to buy some real head studs. The ARP's don't like anything above 30psi. They WILL allow coolant to push.

 

[airmail96]

30psi or a certain amount of lbs/min? Because I think there have been plenty that have run 30+ with ARPs.

 

[turboglenn]

I've read of a few people running 35 psi and less on plain ARPs and didn't see any "fail reports" but it hasn't been that common either and read alot about people pushing coolant.. I'll just be nice on either timing or boost until i get L19's (i mena it's not like 30psi is a lot in the cylinder compared to the pressure in there when combustion is going on, but it is a lot of air, and you light that off too early andd cylinder pressures get really high )

 

[1997_GSX]

Glad everything is working out for you Glenn. How many lbs/min are you flowing at 33psi?