Turbo Boost Creep Creeping T25 14B 16G [Merged]

[noonan98turbo]

The car is in the airport parking lot right now and I'm not able to get a look at it. But will check the vac' lines. My MBC lines are real close to the exhaust mani', so yeah maybe it has dried out and cracked.

As for the external WG, how do you do that? Is it an easy conversion and what else is needed to do this?

I'm planning on pulling the engine after Christmas and doing a rebuild, so would this be a big upgrade to add to the list of things to be done or is it fairly cheap?

Thought about the external dump, but haven't seen any good threads on the true benefit of doing this, so I think I'll pass on that idea right now (unless someone can convince me the big benefit is??).

As far as going external you need to purchase a couple things first. #1 an external wastegate (Im going with a tial 38mm) #2 either an o2 housing or manifold flanged for an external wastegate. If you mount your wastegate on the manifold you will need to weld the internal wastegate flapper shut. If your mounting it on the o2 housing you can just use a whizzer wheel and completely cut out the flapper. I personally am going with a tial 38mm with the o2 housing mount.

 

[LKWTSI]

As far as going external you need to purchase a couple things first. #1 an external wastegate (Im going with a tial 38mm) #2 either an o2 housing or manifold flanged for an external wastegate. If you mount your wastegate on the manifold you will need to weld the internal wastegate flapper shut. If your mounting it on the o2 housing you can just use a whizzer wheel and completely cut out the flapper. I personally am going with a tial 38mm with the o2 housing mount.

Thanks for the info', will have to look into this conversion and do it.

 

[noonan98turbo]

No problem. I really recommend going external simply because it will solve your overboosting problem now and will also be good if you decide to go with a larger turbo setup in the future. Good luck.

 

[slickonice]

After installing a 14b on my car, the boost was erratic and would spike 20+ uncontrollably. I eliminated my perren boost controller and ran a vacuum line from the j pipe nipple to the wastegate nipple. This seemed to help some.. my boost would nail 9 psi at WOT and hold and after a few seconds begin moving up to around 15 or so. When it shifts to second it jumps to 20psi.
Keep in mind I have a 3" exhaust with no cat and I did port out the exhaust housing and around the flapper so it would open all the way.
Could my flapper be hitting up against the o2 housing? I didn't think of checking or porting that when I had it all torn apart.
Or another thing I was thinking might be a boost leak? I have a hunch that my J pipe isn't sealing properly and could be leaking. Could that cause my boost to act like that?
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!

 

[talon913]

leaks would realy cause this and to much exhaust flow for a small turbo.i had that problem when i installed my big16g with and open exhaust.had to end up gettin an external wastegate to solve it or put some restriction in my exhaust...so it could be your exhaust.someone correct me if im wrong

 

[gofer]

its def. boost creep and its 100% your exhaust setup, read through this it gives you some options http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-turbo-system-intercooler/283834-boost-creep-modified-wga-peepers-mod-how.html#post151411507

 

[slickonice]

Okay, thanks for the help guys!!

 

[talon913]

no problem..they sale a 2g manifold now with an external wastegate flange on it that might help to

 

[agentorange313]

My 91 AWD has a completely stock exhaust system, but the exhaust is falling apart. The flexpipe is damaged and now my car sounds like a damn coffee can civic, with blown gaskets. I have been reading up on boost creep and trying to figure out if if my new exhaust system will make me prone to having this problem. I am running the stock 14b turbo. I have read that 2g rarely have this problem due to the t-25 turbo. I have also read that since I am running a stock turbo 14b or the 16g I can run into boost creep problem because of the type of wastegate.


I wanted to replace everything from the o2 housing back. I have a new 2g o2 housing, the downpipe is from Road Racing Engineering.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/gallery/files/1/0/1/7/6/7/rredp-2gawd-options_original.jpg

I have the short downpipe with the test pipe, no cat. The downpipe is 2.5 inches until the flex section then it is 3 inches to exhaust. I plant to use an Apexi n-1 catback exhaust system. It is a 3" system that bolts right on to the testpipe.

Again everything is stock in the car, turbo, wastegate, and No MBC.

Do you guy think I will run into a problem with boost creep?

 

[talon913]

you will run into boost creep to much exhaust flow for a stock wastegate flapper.correct me if im wrong..i would suggest you get the o2 housing that comes with a built in flange for a external WG or a exhaust manifold that comes with a flange.i had boost creeping probs with my 16g when i put the exhaust back to nearly stock just with a catback delete it spooled up quicker

 

[my98gsx]

The days of having my 14b are long gone, but i still remember them. 14B on a 2g is a very fun turbo to have and i enjoyed it very much. I too was concerned about boost creap on my old setup.
At the time i was running a 14b turbo, 2g o2 housing, Apexi downpipe, Apexi N1 exhaust, dejon tools intake 2g mass air, and a b&m fpr.

I did run into a slight boost creep problem which i fixed quite well for almost nothing but time. After seeing my boost pressure rise 2-3 lbs over my set mark i took the 2g o2 housing off, went to sears and bought a bag of dremel bits and went to town porting the gated portion of the hosung. This solved my problem 100%. The best thing is it only cost me 25 bucks and a few hours.

You could avoid this by buying a nice o2 housing ( punishment racing makes a great one for the td05 housing and you can get it fairly cheep in mild steel )

This isnt a big problem the gains youll get out of doing your exhaust system are worth this so called problem. you should be fine.

 

[blowinsmoke95]

+1^^^^
on the o2 housing

 

[skatershawn]

so your car is completely stock but the exhaust being cut off with no cat and your running more than stock boost??

if your setup is completely stock i have no reason to believe why you would need an external wastegate!!
are you sure its boost creep... in 4th and 5th and sometimes 3rd its cutting out.... that sounds like fuel cut... but hey get the external wastegate and see what happens.. IMO its a waste of money!!

Good luck tho bro!!

 

[Niteninja01]

I know this ###### has been posted, but I searched and I could not find anything about it. I'm just woundering what it is and how to not get it

 

[Terrancegst]

Boost creep is when rising boost level pass what the wastegate level has been set at. likely more exhaust flow present for the Wastegate to bypass. Avoiding boost creep
run boost level where turbo efficiency is and not at its peak, external wastegate is a option as well as porting internal wastegate opening

 

[slickonice]

I ended up putting a baffle in my huge exhaust tip which seemed to help out a lot. the highest I saw it go was 14 psi and held rock solid through the gears. I'll hopefully get an external WG soon so I can get rid of that baffle.

 

[ricktb]

Ok so since I installed my 1G BOV and I did the dump tube free mod, my 16G turbo spools like an F-in banchee and creeps out of control until about 17psi at which point the engine will stumble. (I believe this is the point where the uncrushed 1G BOV begins to leak)

I'm still learning about increasing the boost and the upgrade path so could you guys help me out?

Aside from porting the turbo and actually fixing the creep issue, I understand that if you exceed 16psi on a stock fuel system you will either hit fuel cut, or run too lean that you could damage the engine, correct?

Well, shouldn't I see the mixture lean out on my AEM wideband at least? at 17 psi I read mid to low 10 AFR. Does this mean my fuel system is holding strong and I'm not risking damage to the engine?

How about detoantion or knock. Is there a chance the boost is too hot even with a rich mixture?

Sorry I'm still learning.. Would meth injection or an FMIC help me out in this case? Thanks for any advice.

 

[DSMopar]

The 'stumble' is fuel cut, the BOV isn't leaking. Yes it's normal to see 10 up until fuel cut, just goes to show the stock fuel map is well thought out up until the limit...

 

[RayBan GST]

lower your boost immediately and dont play with it until you have some fuel mods.


get an MBC and lower that boost down. i really dont want to see you in another thread saying OPS i blew my engine.


good luck man

 

[iluvmy4g63]

Ok so since I installed my 1G BOV and I did the dump tube free mod, my 16G turbo spools like an F-in banchee and creeps out of control until about 17psi at which point the engine will stumble. (I believe this is the point where the uncrushed 1G BOV begins to leak)

I'm still learning about increasing the boost and the upgrade path so could you guys help me out?

Aside from porting the turbo and actually fixing the creep issue, I understand that if you exceed 16psi on a stock fuel system you will either hit fuel cut, or run too lean that you could damage the engine, correct?

Well, shouldn't I see the mixture lean out on my AEM wideband at least? at 17 psi I read mid to low 10 AFR. Does this mean my fuel system is holding strong and I'm not risking damage to the engine?

How about detoantion or knock. Is there a chance the boost is too hot even with a rich mixture?

Sorry I'm still learning.. Would meth injection or an FMIC help me out in this case? Thanks for any advice.

are you running a stock wastegate?....i had problems like this, and the only thing i could do to stop it was an external gate....i would check the wastegate flapper. to make sure its opening all the way...then do some side porting(don't get crazy with it though).

 

[miller97tsi]

+1 i second that

 

[sicktsi]

I would like stated by others already either get a mbc and turn the boost down for now. Or get the turbo ported which i just got done to my big 16g i had the flapper housing ported. The back of the turbo and the o2 dump and now i am pulling 20pds boost until redline. With the stock wastegate.

 

[jking29]

Or you could add the necessary fuel mods, pump, injectors and way to tune. Then you can turn it up and not worry about creep.

 

[dawid4444]

For now turn the boost down immediately !
And for your problem the best way to go is external wastegauge it will solve the problem for 100%
but u can try port the flapper housing it can help too

 

[400hp93talon]

Or you could add the necessary fuel mods, pump, injectors and way to tune. Then you can turn it up and not worry about creep.

You still have to worry about creep.....creeping is where its exceeding a set point and its bad for a tuned motor and untuned......get a manual boost controler and turn the boost down then either port it or get an external wastegate. Who ever runs 20psi on a stock fuel system and a stock tune i feel sorry for cause your shit isnt gonna last long!!! Get it tuned thats how you get real results!!!!!!!