Turbo Boost Creep Creeping T25 14B 16G [Merged]

[jking29]

Creeping is usually only a concern when you try and run low boost. Once you get past about 20psi boost, boost creep is no longer a concern usually.

 

[LiquidX]

Just run the stock wastegate pressure. Remove the MBC and run the vaccum line directly from the pressure source to the wastegate actuator. I would reccomend porting out the wastegate hole to eliminate the creep all together. Or, just go external and forget about it. Either option you choose, you should still upgrade the fuel.

 

[DSMopar]

You guys are spazzing out, his A/Fs are fine I see no reason to turn it down. Maybe turn it down slightly to prevent fuel cut (like 16 or 15 psi) but that's it.

 

[ricktb]

I currently have a vacumm line going directly from the boost source to the wastegate flapper (no MBC) hoping to keep the boost all the way down to no avail.

Also I've tried running an open wastegate flapper (no arm to actuator) and it doesn't creep as much but still goes up to 15-16psi a little later on. (around 5000 rpms)

damn I think your right I need to port my turbo and maybe add an external wastegate. thanks for the advice

 

[915GsT]

i know im gonna get the "SEARCH" link from someone here and if you can provide all the answers on a thread i didnt find i will appreciate it greatly.

first off mods are
k / n intake
bcs restrictor removal mod
greddy short route fmic
thermal 3 inch cat back... gutted cat
and of course boost gauge (reading 12 at idle vac and boosting 14 lbs)...
97 gs-t sypder...

this is my question, i recently bought a down pipe which i have not installed due to seeing a BOOST CREEP issue lots of people are having. i am running the stock t25 and my fuel system is completly stock. after i install this down pipe how much should i expect to see creep up? this is a 2.5 inch dp since im not planning on making more than 400hp... its my daily.....i also read the possibilities of putting a hole through a piston if fuel cut off does not activate, correct me if im wrong but if i dont spike past 16 lbs i should be okay right? i also read that boring out the o2 housing as well as the wastegate is a fix to this however, i have never done that so my confidence level on doing it correctly is not too good. my concern isint too much about the turbo but more about blowing my motor due to running too lean.

again all help is very much appreciated.

 

[Indian]

More than likely with a stock maf your going to hit fuel cut if your boost creeps. Any time that the exhaust flow cant exit through the wastegate will cause boost creep. Yes,if you hit fuel cut when you start creeping it will cause detonation. There is tons of information on how to port your wastegate and o2 housing. I never felt confident on doing it when i started,but you never know till you get your hands dirty. I have a spare o2 housing I could send you if you wanted to practice.

 

[915GsT]

would it be easier to just buy a whole other kit since eventually i plan to move up to a bigger turbo anyway? with external wg ofcourse...


should i upgrade fuel system first?

thanks man that would be aswome

 

[Indian]

It depends on what turbo you plan on running. I am running a 16G with upgraded flapper and ported wastegate. I would not however run an external wastegate setup with a 16G,although some people do. My downpipe is also 2.5",but extends to a 3" towards the end wich also better controls creep. You should just max out the T25 then upgrade later. If you decide to upgrade your turbo you must upgrade fuel,and have a tuning device so you can have control.

 

[915GsT]

i have the same down pipe u have... and then leads out to the 3inch cat back. im gonna put it together next week, so for now what should i upgrade just incase this shit decides to spike... just pump? or pump and injectors? or when does a stand alone system come into play?

once again bro, thanks for the help... did you run that same exhaust set up on a t25 or you just did it all on the 16?

 

[wkmitsu]

I doubt you will run into any problems with the T25, I don't think it can hurt even a stock engine. It just blows hot air past 15 psi anyway. If you were running a 16G, then yeah you might run into a boost creep issue, but at this point I wouldn't worry about it. Also, Installing your new down pipe should reduce the likelihood that you will get boost creep. And of course, as it has been mentioned, a ported O2 housing will help as well.

 

[915GsT]

i saw the thread on v faq on how like with pictures of how to do it and it really dosent look too hard so im gonna put on the pipe first, depending on wether it spikes or not ill port it. eventurally i will upgrade, not sure if ill go to the 16 tho, never been a fan built integrated wastegates so i might do something different.

as far as it just blowing hot air after 15, is that corrected by my fmic or ?

 

[Indian]

i have the same down pipe u have... and then leads out to the 3inch cat back. im gonna put it together next week, so for now what should i upgrade just incase this shit decides to spike... just pump? or pump and injectors? or when does a stand alone system come into play?


once again bro, thanks for the help... did you run that same exhaust set up on a t25 or you just did it all on the 16?

pump and injectors will not effect spike. Just throw your down pipe on and see what happens. watch your boost gauge and as soon as it starts to creep just let off and you have your answer if you need to upgrade/port.
When i had my 2G I did not have any creep issues with a T25 and larger downpipe,but I also had a larger o2 housing. I have a 1G that came with the 14B. I switched to the 16G immediately. You wont need a stand alone until your making serious power. You can get some kind of piggy back tuning device such as SAFC or DSMLINK when you upgrade your fuel. DSMLINK may be all any of us will really need.

 

[915GsT]

awsome man. thank you.

 

[wkmitsu]

i saw the thread on v faq on how like with pictures of how to do it and it really dosent look too hard so im gonna put on the pipe first, depending on wether it spikes or not ill port it. eventurally i will upgrade, not sure if ill go to the 16 tho, never been a fan built integrated wastegates so i might do something different.

as far as it just blowing hot air after 15, is that corrected by my fmic or ?

Your front mount is going to help everything out, but what I mean is that the T25 just doesn't push that much boost, its too small. I've never really heard of anyone having boost creep issues with a T25, and I've never heard of an engine getting severely damaged by one. So like I said, I think you're going to be fine.

What kind of setup were you thinking about going with if you don't want an internally gated turbo? Usually externally gated systems are used to put down some big hp numbers, if you want a daily driver with just a little bit more power than I would think either a 14b or 16G would be ideal, maybe a T28 but they're a little pricy.

 

[915GsT]

everywhere ive looked i have found these 16g kits for nearly 500... if i throw in just a tad more im pretty sure i can come up with something better... as far as numbers and times... my goal is to hit 13's on the 1/4 mile and keep it as reliable as its been. ive had the car over a year drive it 40 miles every other day and it is fun and so far no big issues. so tell me where you think i should go from here.

remeber its a convertible and i think nhra rules state that if i hit any faster than 13.4 a roll cage will be required.... so far i already have the eibach prokit struts and drop springs for suspension work so thats all im doing to that.

 

[wkmitsu]

everywhere ive looked i have found these 16g kits for nearly 500... if i throw in just a tad more im pretty sure i can come up with something better... as far as numbers and times... my goal is to hit 13's on the 1/4 mile and keep it as reliable as its been. ive had the car over a year drive it 40 miles every other day and it is fun and so far no big issues. so tell me where you think i should go from here.

remeber its a convertible and i think nhra rules state that if i hit any faster than 13.4 a roll cage will be required.... so far i already have the eibach prokit struts and drop springs for suspension work so thats all im doing to that.

You could go with a holset hx35, which would actually probably be cheaper than a 16G setup. With that you could run less boost and get the same amount of power so it would be easier on your engine, plus the spool would be almost the same.

I'm going to go with an Evo III big 16G and my goal is 13s or high 12s, so I think with anything bigger or better than a 16G you're definitely going to get there. And I've considered a holset hx35 setup for my goals.

As far as reliability goes anything that I mentioned before is going to be just as reliable as the setup you have now as long as it is installed and maintained correctly. I'm not as sure about the reliability of a holset setup, because I don't know much about that aspect of it.

And yeah you should be good with those suspension mods. Remember its your car, you can do whatever you want with it!

 

[915GsT]

Awsome, never heard of that set up but I will surely look into it. Thanks.

 

[Indian]

I think right now the 16G would be more fit for your setup. Its a direct bolt on without having to change any oil feed/water feed lines. The 16G is one of the best streetable turbos (IMO) It is also smaller compared to the HX35 wich allows more room for fans and intercooler piping. With the HX35 you could make more hp with less boost,but wouldnt be the best choice for someone who has barely any mods yet. Look into it though I'm not trying to make your decision for you or turn you away from it. Also if you do ever get an evo3 16G make sure it is an MHI.

 

[wkmitsu]

I think right now the 16G would be more fit for your setup. Its a direct bolt on without having to change any oil feed/water feed lines. The 16G is one of the best streetable turbos (IMO) It is also smaller compared to the HX35 wich allows more room for fans and intercooler piping. With the HX35 you could make more hp with less boost,but wouldnt be the best choice for someone who has barely any mods yet. Look into it though I'm not trying to make your decision for you or turn you away from it. Also if you do ever get an evo3 16G make sure it is an MHI.

The 16G isn't a direct bolt on with 2Gs, you will need a J pipe and a couple different lines that are included with the 16G 2G install kit. The T28 is a DIRECT bolt on. He was talking about going a step beyond that level of turbo, so the next logical step would be an hx35. But yeah I agree that he would need a few more supporting mods to run a set up like that. And yeah sorry I forgot to mention that if you decided to go with an Evo III to make sure and stay away from knock offs, get a genuine one.

 

[Indian]

The 16G isn't a direct bolt on with 2Gs, you will need a J pipe and a couple different lines that are included with the 16G 2G install kit. The T28 is a DIRECT bolt on. He was talking about going a step beyond that level of turbo, so the next logical step would be an hx35. But yeah I agree that he would need a few more supporting mods to run a set up like that. And yeah sorry I forgot to mention that if you decided to go with an Evo III to make sure and stay away from knock offs, get a genuine one.

Thankyou I had forgotten about the 2G install kit . I once bought an ebay evo3 that came with the install kit. The turbo creeped,spiked,and sooner or later it was blown. I still have the kit laying around somewhere.

 

[915GsT]

So those ebay ones are knock offs??? Is there a supplier of real 16g kits or pretty much just gotta find someone here selling one or?

 

[Indian]

Yes, alot or pretty much all of those kits are knock offs. A quick way to tell a knock off is if it has an adjustable wastegate rod. You can get a real MHI (Mitsubishi Heavy Industries) from a vendor on this site.

 

[915GsT]

Thanks... I might just buy the turbo here then.... How reliable are they as far as vendors? And the rest of the kit I can piece together some how. Well like I said tomorrow ill be at the fire house and I probably won't have time to put this stuff together but ill keep you guys posted on what happens.

 

[IgotBoost91]

Are you sure its boost creep? I dont think its possible with a t25.

 

[Indian]

Are you sure its boost creep? I dont think its possible with a t25.

It IS possible just rare.