2G Trust Greedy TD06 20g on Stock internals GST, worth it?

[Dan Rittner]

Hi guys,

I know there are hundreds of topics about 20G x (insert any turbo here).
However, I have a 98 GST running on E85 with FIC 800 injectors, Walbro 455, Dsmlink, FMIC, 2.5" exhaust, and a Godspeed Chinese Big 16g turbo, and is not going over 20 psi (it came with the car), is getting a full boost over 4000 rpm. I would love to get an Evo 3 16g, but they are hard to come by here in Brazil. A good friend of mine has a Trust Greedy TD06 20g + manifold sitting down for years, not really sure about the specs (pics below), he will lend me to test it on the car before I make any decision.

So here is the car on the dyno making poor 220whp (237 with correction):

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And here is 20g

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imagens da internet

Do you guys think stock internals can handle the 20g? The goal here is 350whp tops
In terms of lag compared to this crap 16g, any thoughts? I know if sit was an MHI Evo3 16g it´ll get a full boost 200/300rpm earlier than the 20g, but I keep thinking the Chinese 16g is screw-up and maybe the manifold can give extra help.

Thanks

 

[CrackedDSM]

The Chinese 16gs spool slower in my experience because they use a really cheap/terrible quality metal so the shaft and wheels are super thick to prevent snapping. A real MHI 16G spooled much faster on my 1G and hit WAY harder than my Chinese 16G ever could.

To answer your question, a properly tuned TD06 20G setup will be fine on stock internals. But with that said, you could easily pop a motor on a terrible 16G tune, so what the stock block can hold is kind of dependent on a few factors and relative to each person.


As far as spool goes, it's gonna spool slower. But, with a GST that might not be a bad thing. Plus it'll help the transmission live a lot longer too. I'd say go for it. I'm going with a (basically) glorified TD06 20G in the form of an FP Green and that's exactly why. Because my stock engine will hold it, and transmission life is much better if you limit the low end torque.

 

[Dan Rittner]

I never thought about this matter of the GST transmission longevity due to the spool in higher revs. It makes sense, I´m the kind of guy who likes to do short rolling pulls in the mid-gears. However driving in a normal way oh God the car is slow until the turbo kicks in. My wife´s car has a THP engine (BMW 118, Minis, Ds, and a few Peugeots), and that shit kicks with 1500 rpm. Of course, in 4000 rpm is dead, but is so much fun..

 

[Spleen8urLSX]

You’ll notice the 20g might spool a little slower but by no means laggy, however there’s a few things going on here. Biggest I notice is the turbine housing Greddy used on that specific one combined with the manifold leads me to believe that manifold isn’t for a 4g63, along with the horrendous wastegate tube that may position an external wastegate in a place where you can’t use it, not to mention I don’t see an external wastegate controlling boost very well when exhaust has to travel all the way through that tube to get to the gate, however in 18 years I’ve never seen a 4g63 manifold flanged like that. Greddy did NOTHING special to these turbos aside from throwing a “Greddy” badge on them and mark the price up ridiculously, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing resale as they are just rebranded MHI (Mitsubishi heavy industries) and function great, however with that being said when Greddy marketed these for the DSM’s back in the day they included a “bolt on” turbine housing like Forced Performance offers that could utilize a stock exhaust manifold and stock o2 housing if one desired, that one pictured appears to have some kind of forklift turbine housing or something on it.

That doesn’t mean that Greddy didn’t make the manifold and such to utilize that turbine housing way back when, but I’ve never seen it and it wouldn’t make any sense. Not to mention, a ported stock exhaust manifold would outflow and outlast that thing pictured. I wouldn’t say pass on it indefinitely, but I would say don’t bother with it unless you plan to locate a bolt on td06 turbine housing for it which could and pricey and/or extremely difficult to find in Brazil as they’re not exactly easy to come across here in the states unless someone has a blown FP green/red/black they’re willing to sell the housing from. If that isn’t an option then I would definitely pass as it will end up being more headache and cost than it’s worth trying to use it in that turbine housing versus buying a functioning genuine MHI 16g or 20g from the United States and having it shipped to you.

Also to add, you may want to try adjusting the pre load on the China 16g’s gate actuator IF you have confirmed no boost leaks or exhaust leaks. Yes the turbo might not be high quality, but typically if it wouldn’t make over 20psi because of damage there’s usually other obvious signs the turbo is damaged. This is leaning more towards an exhaust leak or boost leak somewhere if the actuator has enough pre load on it. Yes while every car and dyno is different those numbers are LOW for a 16g on e85. Pump gas on a low reading dyno that would be plausible but that’s not adding up tuned on e85. I personally made 284 back in the day on a LOW reading Mustang dyno with a China 16g on 93 octane pump gas spiking 22lbs and falling off to 18-19ish “tuned” with an safc2 using a hacked 1g maf, I’ve seen plenty of others hit the 300ish territory on similar set ups on low reading dynos with pump gas. I’d say you most definitely have some investigating to do. Shoot the next season I made 420 at the wheels and 430wtq switching to a real MHI 16g, e85, and ecmlink spiking 28lbs and falling off to 24 on a not so generous dyno, that MHI 16g wasn’t flowing a 200 horsepower difference from a Chinese special.

 

[Canadian_CD9A]

That TD06 is going to be very laggy, you will slow down the spool considerably and the car will be less fun to drive. Quite frankly, it's a mismatch of compressor and turbine. The TD05H will handle the air flow that the 20G will output on a street setup, so the TD06 is just added lag. It sounds like you have leaks if you have such slow spool and mediocre power results - if the setup is running as it should, I would pay more for a good genuine Evo III 16G on an otherwise stock setup. That GReddy turbo kit is not the answer for you.

 

[chrysler kid]

I agree, you have some serious boost leaks. I would be interested in seeing your air fuel ratio for that pull

 

[Dan Rittner]

Thanks for the info and tips guys.

I will check for leaks, in fact I am replacing the IC and re done the pipes. After that if the problem persists I have 3 ways to go:

1- Cartdridge replacement / rebuild the 16g
2- Get an Evo 3 16g with JusMX or somebody else
3- Try that 20g

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

#2 from Jus FTW!

 

[JusMX141]

A fabricated tubular manifold and TD06 20G is not going to have better response than a TD05H 16G on the stock manifold if that's what you're asking. I'd work on cleaning up the issues with the setup, make sure all of the manifold / turbine housing / o2 housing transitions are smooth and the exhaust is flowing as freely as it can then swap to a MHI 16G if the response is still not where you want it to be.

 

[Canadian_CD9A]

I just remembered seeing something years ago that has the slightest chance of explaining your issue. Years back, some goof in Britain built an Evo 123 turbo using an Evo 4-9 cartridge, which spins the opposite direction. Now, you would expect this to run poorly - and it did - but it still made boost and made some power. It spooled slowly and wasn’t anywhere near what it should’ve been power-wise, which is the same issue you have. Make sure some donkey didn’t put improper guts in your turbo.

 

[Dan Rittner]

A fabricated tubular manifold and TD06 20G is not going to have better response than a TD05H 16G on the stock manifold if that's what you're asking. I'd work on cleaning up the issues with the setup, make sure all of the manifold / turbine housing / o2 housing transitions are smooth and the exhaust is flowing as freely as it can then swap to a MHI 16G if the response is still not where you want it to be.

Hi Jus, is exactly what I´m going to do, check all pipes, IC (exhaust is ok) and then talk to you about a turbo. BTW, do you have anything available right now?

I just remembered seeing something years ago that has the slightest chance of explaining your issue. Years back, some goof in Britain built an Evo 123 turbo using an Evo 4-9 cartridge, which spins the opposite direction. Now, you would expect this to run poorly - and it did - but it still made boost and made some power. It spooled slowly and wasn’t anywhere near what it should’ve been power-wise, which is the same issue you have. Make sure some donkey didn’t put improper guts in your turbo.

Thanks actually a great idea, I know the last owner had an issue with the turbo and replaced the cartridge. BTW,and sorry for the dum question, how do I know what is the right side to spin?

 

[TheDude236]

Hi Jus, is exactly what I´m going to do, check all pipes, IC (exhaust is ok) and then talk to you about a turbo. BTW, do you have anything available right now?

Probably best to directly message him about this, but my tdo5 20g he built for me shipped to my house about a month ago, we started messaging about it in february/march. Last he told me he has a lot of orders but will likely be able to hook you up with something used or new.

 

[Canadian_CD9A]

Thanks actually a great idea, I know the last owner had an issue with the turbo and replaced the cartridge. BTW,and sorry for the dum question, how do I know what is the right side to spin?

The compressor blades should be in this direction.

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