Too much fuel?

[waggs187]

I have a stock 1997 Eagle Talon TSI AWD and was wondering if it is normal for the vehicle's exhaust to smell like fuel? It's really strong. When I shut off the car the exhaust is still hot and it's burning up the extra fuel in the exhaust and it will smoke a little from that. Is this normal? I've never had another car do this.

 

[95talongirl]

These cars do run rich form the factory, but what you are describing... i would not call normal. The car is not acting up at all? A misfire would cause some unburned gas to get in the exhaust. How many miles are on it? Maybe its time for a tune up?

 

[waggs187]

These cars do run rich form the factory, but what you are describing... i would not call normal. The car is not acting up at all? A misfire would cause some unburned gas to get in the exhaust. How many miles are on it? Maybe its time for a tune up?

i've recently done spark plugs, timing belt, water pump, all serpentine belts. I was thinking that maybe I have a small misfire but I wasn't sure. misfires are just plugs and wires right?

Well to answer your question it has 118,000 miles on it. And it's not acting up. I just thought it was really weird to have that strong of a fuel smell while car is running and then the smoking out of the pipe after the car is turned off.

Maybe it's normal. That's why i'm asking the experts. I'm really new to the DSM world.

 

[delta448]

CEL on?
Possible your front O2 sensor is dead?
Change the oil lately?
PCV valve?

Any misfiring or hesitation?

 

[waggs187]

CEL on?
Possible your front O2 sensor is dead?
Change the oil lately?
PCV valve?

Any misfiring or hesitation?[/QUOTE

CEL on = no

front O2 sensor is dead = wouldn't that throw a code?

I haven't changed oil yet as when I got it, it looked clean and level was fine

PCV valve = could be. I'll check it. (where exactly is that located?)

 

[delta448]

(where exactly is that located?)

 

[waggs187]

Thank you sir!!!

how does it look?

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[waggs187]

I installed pcv valve and it seems as if it smokes more now. Here is a video. I stumbled over myself quite a bit so...be nice. haha.

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[brassc2007]

have you check fpr, or any of the sensors on the throttle body. If you pull the vacuum line of the end of the fpr when the car is warmed up and running you can tell if your fpr (fuel pressure regulator) is good or bad if it has gas coming out of it, it is bad, if not then it is good.

 

[waggs187]

have you check fpr, or any of the sensors on the throttle body. If you pull the vacuum line of the end of the fpr when the car is warmed up and running you can tell if your fpr (fuel pressure regulator) is good or bad if it has gas coming out of it, it is bad, if not then it is good.

Alright I took the vac line off of FPR and no fuel is coming out. So I assume that is good. I checked all the sensors going into throttle body for connection issues and all seem well.

Any other ideas. Maybe Fuel filter?

 

[delta448]

That looks like quite a large overdose of fuel.

Due to the amount of smoke at idle (and lack of CEL) I doubt this is the problem but, try this first because it's simple: Disconnect the negative battery cable for half an hour, double check all the wiring connections at the MAS, reconnect the battery and start the car. If the smoke/fuel doesn't reappear immediately after the car is warm then your front O2 sensor is probably dying and has thrown your fuel trims off. But I really think there's more to the story here.

If the car smokes the same way after warm then the problem is most likely mechanical and not electrical. Are the injectors known to be stock? Is the fuel pump known to be stock? By the amount of smoke I'm guessing you're running at least 15-20% too much fuel at idle. It seems like possible overrun of the stock FPR by a larger aftermarket fuel pump, but that is bad enough to make me wonder if the injectors have been swapped with 550s or Evo 560s.

If you have someone hold the engine steady between 3400 and 3900 rpm, is there more or less smoke? If it's less, you should check the fuel pump first and then buy a nice AFPR when you find that surprise Walbro pump. If it's proportionately more, you should swap the injectors to a set of 450s borrowed from someone local to you and see if that solves it. Or, you could buy a piggyback and wideband and see how much airflow signal you have to remove to get back to 14.7 AFR and +/- 3% fuel trim at idle.

Do you have a logger? If not, you need one.

Are there any known performance mods to the car that you didn't do?

 

[waggs187]

That looks like quite a large overdose of fuel.

Due to the amount of smoke at idle (and lack of CEL) I doubt this is the problem but, try this first because it's simple: Disconnect the negative battery cable for half an hour, double check all the wiring connections at the MAS, reconnect the battery and start the car. If the smoke/fuel doesn't reappear immediately after the car is warm then your front O2 sensor is probably dying and has thrown your fuel trims off. But I really think there's more to the story here.

If the car smokes the same way after warm then the problem is most likely mechanical and not electrical. Are the injectors known to be stock? Is the fuel pump known to be stock? By the amount of smoke I'm guessing you're running at least 15-20% too much fuel at idle. It seems like possible overrun of the stock FPR by a larger aftermarket fuel pump, but that is bad enough to make me wonder if the injectors have been swapped with 550s or Evo 560s.

If you have someone hold the engine steady between 3400 and 3900 rpm, is there more or less smoke? If it's less, you should check the fuel pump first and then buy a nice AFPR when you find that surprise Walbro pump. If it's proportionately more, you should swap the injectors to a set of 450s borrowed from someone local to you and see if that solves it. Or, you could buy a piggyback and wideband and see how much airflow signal you have to remove to get back to 14.7 AFR and +/- 3% fuel trim at idle.

Do you have a logger? If not, you need one.

Are there any known performance mods to the car that you didn't do?

How would I know if the injectors are stock or not? As far as I know nothing has been changed on the car. The exhaust is stock and it's rusted on there so I know it has never been changed.
The only thing that I can tell as far as modification goes if you want to call it that is the K&N Air Filter in the air box. I know from previously forgetting to put maf sensor back on air box that it makes it not idle very well. So i'm assuming it's connected because it went back to normal after I plugged it back in and pulled neg on battery.
I'm waiting for the 30 mins right now to see if it's the ecu thing.

so i did the 30 min thing and no luck. could my spark plugs be gapped wrong? would that cause this?

 

[rEclipserGST]

Do you have a boost gauge? A logger? A wideband? What did you gap the plugs to? They need to be gaped at .28 so make sure those are correct with a gaping tool. I would change the wires if you havent done so. I rock NGK wires and plugs.

What is the weather like? Looks like some snow over there on the ground, what degrees is it outside? Smoke could be a combo of hot air (from your engine) being exposed to the cold outside air. My car will have that faint white smoke when it's cold outside. It's around mid 30's here in Ohio. My exhaust also drips a bit. But like they said, our car's come rich from the factory. A good tune would probaly clear that up. I would not worry about it. One upgrade I suggest is a ebay metal intake pipe and at least a 1g bov with a 2g adapter. I have the adapter that will fit your stock 2g piping. It's a cheap mod to keep boost. Stock 2g bov's leak around 8-12 lbs. 1g bov's can hold 14 or so if you let them.

Hard piping would be a good upgrade as well. Check out my mods, I'm happy so far, almost have my 3" exhaust from ebay on. Looks sexy. With a good tune I should be owning some peeps.

BTW, your car is super clean. Your lucky. Its nice to find a stock 2g, very rare.

 

[waggs187]

Does your exhaust smell heavy of fuel? mine does. like i've spilt about 5 gallons of it on the ground.

as far as a data logger, boost gauge, wideband the answer is no I don't have one. it's stock. I'll check my gapping on my spark plugs as well I just changed them out but they seemed to be gapped properly when I put them against the old ones. I think I accidently ordered the colder set. Would that be the cause? Anyways thanks for all the help. I guess I'll check my gapping, and then check the injectors and fuel pump and that stuff.


Thanks everyone for the help so far. Like I said it may be normal, it just seemed a little odd to me. This is my first DSM.

by the way yes we had some snow here. 12 inches. but the car has been in the garage and it did this before the weather as well. I've just now have had time to work with it. since it's garaged.

 

[delta448]

If you had a datalogger, we could check airflow Hz and injector pulsewidth. Pulsewidth can be used to verify if the injector size is stock if you know the mass of air entering the engine and can estimate the effective AFR.

They need to be gapped at .028 so make sure those are correct with a gapping tool.

Fixed.

Call me anal, but that zero matters. A gap of 0.28 is more than a quarter of an inch, it should be 0.028" if you're stock on stock BPR6 plugs.

What is the weather like? Looks like some snow over there on the ground, what degrees is it outside? Smoke could be a combo of hot air (from your engine) being exposed to the cold outside air. My car will have that faint white smoke when it's cold outside. It's around mid 30's here in Ohio. My exhaust also drips a bit. But like they said, our car's come rich from the factory. A good tune would probaly clear that up.

If the engine is warm and the coolant temp sensor says so, then the temp of the outside air shouldn't matter since he's on the factory ECU and tune. The ECU will be in closed loop with the front O2 sensor. No matter what, if you smell abundant fuel out the tailpipe while at warm idle something is not right.

OP, have you checked for exhaust leaks before the O2 sensor?

 

[waggs187]

I have not checked for an exhaust leak before the o2 sensor. will do so.

 

[njdaewoo]

You probably have a bad O2 sensor.... when they get really sooted up they dont read the air fuel ratio correctly. sometimes it doesnt throw a code but the car will run really rich....

 

[mm3boomer45]

Might not hurt to put on a timing light and ensure your timing is dead set. Probalbly wouldn't cause a super rich condition but doesn't hurt to check since you just did a timing belt. Also I know you said stock but just to make sure you aren't venting to atmosphere? Thats a nono, so I figured I would ask. Also I think a bad O2 sensor would throw a CEL correct? But get a hold of an fluke and check you resistance, reference your repair manual of choice, as I'm not 100% sure what they should ohm.

 

[oneslowwdsm]

I wouldn't worry about that too much. My car does the same thing at idle minus the leaking but you can only really see it when it's cold outside. If it's warm, you won't see it.

But in any case, I would also say that your o2 sensor is starting to go bad. How's your fuel economy?

 

[Benshooter]

Not sure why anyone else didn't ask, but could you pull your plugs and take a good up close picture? If your running that rich there will be obvious signs on the plugs.

Also, never assume your oil is good. I've seen oil that looks clean but is in dire need of changing. Do you burn any oil? Do you regularly have to top off your oil?

And that drip on from your exhaust is most likely condensated water. If it was fuel, you could take a match to it and it would burn, of course.

One last thing, although hesitation, sputtering, and misfires can be a result of bad plugs and wires, there's approximately a milion other things that can cause it.

Welcome to the world of backyard mehanics.