Timing too high??

[matt98eclipse]

Hey guys the other night i went out and did a 3rd gear pull heres what i got.

RPMS 6710
INJD 75.7 %
KNOCK 1
02 89V
Timing 28


Why does my timing seem to be so high??? It would bounce from 30 to 28!!
Am i still running rich?

Still trying to tune in my MAFT

 

[dnhieu]

my car peaks at 28 degres and slowly falls back down to 22.

 

[matt98eclipse]

Mine didn't go down at all.

 

[turboglenn]

well, if you haven't messed with the timing curve ( i couldn't tell what you're using for management in your profile ) I'm assuming a Link systems since i saw "missing link" in the description. But if you haven't "forced" the timing and it's pulling that on it's own and your knock sensor is functioning properly, i'd say go with it and be happy your motor/ECU combo is letting you have that much!

Aslo, .89 volts on a sstock o2 can be anywhere from a tad lean to about right. They (stock o2's ) are really inconsistant anywhere other than at 14:7.1 (which is the only are that they are designed to be accurate for emissions control) Have you had a wideband on it?

EDIT: okay, i'm a bit confused.. I see you have 2 cars in your profile. If we're talking about the bone stock 91 GSX, i'd say teh timing is great and the motor is running fine. I'm still against ussing any readings from a stnadard o2 sensor for reading A/F's I've seen them read .89 -.90 and the AF be as lean as 13 -13.5:1

 

[matt98eclipse]

The only thing im useing to tune is MAFT. Sorry to confuse you but the missing link is for the 2gnt.

 

[1LE]

The O2 is useless. My car was still rich when showing .86v, but there are people on here that will swear you're lean if it's under .92-.94

What kind of sparkplugs are you using? I saw my timing go from the normal 19-20 degrees max, all the way up to 38 degrees after I changed to non-resistor version of the NGKs. Switched back to the resistor version and the timing came right back down to where it belongs. I can't explain it, makes absolutely NO sense to me, but I duplicated the results with another set of non-resistor plugs.

 

[matt98eclipse]

I honistly think the same about the 02 cus when i hit full boost around 8 pounds the car feels sluggish probly cus im still running rich!! I could try and lean it out but scared to lean it out to much!!

Im running NGKs the 6es type gapped at .28

 

[Car Cannibal]

Another reason why I got a Keydiver eprom chip, aside from the phantom knock code the steady timing is a must if you are running close to the edge. Damn 28 and 30 is a crank buster.

 

[selmerguy]

I am assuming you are using MMCD to log... With MMSD (same thing but for SD conversion) Hakcenter used a older version of MMCD to customize. Anyway the timing numbers are off +10. The way to check is to turn on your logger and just turn the power on in the car. If it reads 5 degrees of timing the numbers are off +10. It should read -5 degrees with the key in the on position.

 

[JayRolla]

With the older loggers you had to subtract your base timing. If your running 5* btdc then you take that off your final timing on the log. MMCD has a function where you set your base timing and the software auto subtracts it. What is your base timing at?

Also 1g's have very aggressive timing. On a good tune with no knock I will see about 28*. Since yours does not drop that means you have no knock and its a good thing. The second guy that posted says he hits 30* then drops because timing is being pulled because of knock.

 

[matt98eclipse]

Selmerguy: I just went outside to check my on my datalogger and its reads -5 with the key on!

I have my timing set to 5* btdc I also double checked it with a timing gun.

 

[JayRolla]

Selmerguy: I just went outside to check my on my datalogger and its reads -5 with the key on!

I have my timing set to 5* btdc I also double checked it with a timing gun.

Timing is a little high but I'm not sure if I believe MMCD so much when it comes to the timing reading. My brother was running a 11.1 afr on pump gas at 15psi on his 16g with the stock timing curve and zero knock. Timing was hitting 28-30*.

We turned boost to about 17psi, afr didnt change too much and we had some knock. Pulled 5 points off timing out where it knocked with the greddy emanage and knock went away but timing still read 28*. We got the motor to run 20psi on pump but bottomed out how much timing could be pulled with emanage and timing never dropped below 26-28*!!

Doesnt make sense but we where getting rid of knock so it was taking out timing, but MMCD didnt really say so. Confused me because I was scared we pulled too much timing since the emanage wouldnt let us pull anymore but we where tuning off the eo1 not the software so that could have limited us.

Anyways if you have zero knock and your car is at a good afr I would not be too worried about it. Too much timing can cause too much heat so you could get an EGT gauge and see where your at.

 

[matt98eclipse]

Thanxs guys for the help! Im really gonne need to get a EGT gauge!

 

[1LE]

Anyways if you have zero knock and your car is at a good afr I would not be too worried about it. Too much timing can cause too much heat so you could get an EGT gauge and see where your at.

Good point, I entirely forgot to mention that. When I was getting my real high timing numbers, I was seeing 975C EGTs by 6k rpm in 3rd gear down the straights at Nelson Ledges... I'd usually lift at that point and coast along a little. I've heard numbers well over 1000C from other DSMers that track their cars, but they also report melting EGT probes (but no engine damage)... So, just keep that in mind.

Oh yeah, the car was a LOT faster with 38 degrees timing than with 21

 

[spyderturbo007]

If I were you, I would get a WBO2 instead of the EGT. You have to remember, that high EGT's can be caused by running lean, or by running really rich. A WBO2 will provide you with much, much more information.

 

[1LE]

If I were you, I would get a WBO2 instead of the EGT. You have to remember, that high EGT's can be caused by running lean, or by running really rich. A WBO2 will provide you with much, much more information.

I'd say you ideally have both. A WBO2 will NOT alert you to insane timing numbers that result in high EGTs. The WBO2 is a specific tool for monitoring one item. An EGT gauge is a more general tool for monitoring the overall operation of the engine. Too high or too low = something wrong. You won't know what, but you'll know that you need to look at some other gauges or possibly do some datalogging/diagnostics.