Timing Advances too high? Need some help (Log inside)

[Prodigyman]

Little background
95 TSI AWD, 134k miles, stock T25 (Last breath prob), EVO IX 560 CC, No Boost leaks
Putting B16G, Short Route FMIC, 2.5" Turbo back, EVO III mani, rewired 190 lp
SAFC I, Pocket Logger
New Denso O2, NGK Wires, NGK 6ES plugs

Running for now 10-11 PSI (Tube from Turbo straight to WG) on Sunoco 94

Engine Compression
179 172 179 179

SAFC on LT is on average -18 across the board and average -15 on HT

Just finished tuning for STFT (All values within 3-5%) and carried values to LTFT and richened by 2-3 points and did a pull

Coolant Temp solid 190F from 3k to 7k
Air flow peaks at 19.5 LB/min

RPM Timing TPS NBO2V
3152 15.0 86.44 0.96
3536 17.0 87.23 0.96
3916 18.0 87.23 0.96
4292 18.0 87.23 0.98
4652 20.0 87.23 0.98
5000 21.0 87.23 0.98
5308 22.0 87.23 0.98
5612 26.0 87.23 0.98
5888 26.0 87.23 0.98
6144 28.0 87.23 0.98
6388 30.0 87.23 0.96
6608 31.0 87.23 0.96
6808 30.0 87.23 0.96
6980 32.0 87.23 0.96
7148 31.0 1.18 0.38

Before on stock 450s I had from 2k to 7k timing advanced from 16 to 22 degrees and now it goes all the way from 14 to 30 and I think it is too high so I am just wondering what could cause that and any advice on how to fix that because from what I saw most members start at 8* and proceed to 20* @ 7k for proper tune.

 

[JeffGST]

That is normal operation of a 2G timing curve with low airflow and a SAFC. Take a look at my Timing Page and you will see why your timing is in the 30 degrees range.

http://www.jeffgst.com/id20.html

Look at the 2G timing table in the link above. When you are at 6500 RPM and 0 PSI, timing will be at 31 degrees. The SAFC is hiding airflow, so even though you are really at 19lbs/min worth of airflow, the ECU sees even less. The ECU is giving you the 0 PSI timing table.

 

[Prodigyman]

That's a great timing table and link, it all makes sense now

Just to let you know that air flow was from my other logs when I had stock 450s and @ 7000 RPM just with SAFC (all zero).

So I am about -15% right now so ECU should see about 16/min air flow @ 7000 RPM @ 11 PSI.

Here is the logg (much leaner one) with 560s and SAFC @ ~ -14 @ 11 PSI

RPM Timing lb/min TPS 02V
2612 39 1.28 9.43 0.8
2596 33 4.62 78.98 0.88
2760 20 7.78 80.55 0.9
3140 13 9.85 81.73 0.9
3536 13 11.14 82.12 0.92
3928 17 12.21 82.12 0.92
4328 18 13.41 82.12 0.92
4708 19 14.34 82.12 0.92
5056 20 15.46 82.51 0.94
5392 23 15.72 82.12 0.92
5688 23 16.1 82.51 0.92
5960 25 16.33 82.51 0.92
6220 27 16.61 82.51 0.92
6452 27 16.73 82.91 0.92
6664 28 16.98 82.91 0.92
6868 29 16.8 82.91 0.92
7056 40 5.58 18 0.68

PS: I think something is wrong with my TPS also since i made it as tight as it can be without having high idle but max i can get it is like 88%...

Thing is how does ECU determines which boost table does it go to? I have a tube going directly to WG now (or MBP) and stock boost solenoid is plugged in but hoses are not connected or does ECU reads the pressure from the MAF?

Even though at 4-16 lb/min 11 PSI shouldn't I be at different timing table? Also very stupid question but the higher you are in the timing advance table the better it is right? Or it's the other way around?

 

[JeffGST]

First off, why do you have the airflow and boost set so low. 16lbs/min worth of airflow is just pitful. I have 16lbs/min at 5 PSI of boost at 3900 RPM on a T67 during spool up.

16lbs/min at 6500 RPM is not much higher than 0 PSI in my book. It's probably only 150WHP. The ECU doesn't use a "Boost Table" at all, but instead it uses the MAF frequencies Hz that it measures. I converted that over into PSI, because it is much easier to read it that way.

The higher the timing, the more efficient the burn. So you want the highest timing you can get away with before detenation or knock begins.

 

[Prodigyman]

I am just trying to learn how to tune the car properly and compensate for 560 CC I installed and then when the turbo and all the upgrades goes in next week, by then I should know how to tune it properly, plus I want the car to run good and at its peak before everything goes in.

 

[Black_Bullet]

I didnt think 560s would give someone that much timing on a safc.
Your timing seems to be higher than normal, especially considering there are people getting away with
650s on a safc. Your current timing map wont allow you to run any decent boost on pump gas alone.
This is why safcs are garbadge for anything more than "small" fuel adjustments imo.

Make sure your logging for knock, and yea you want a lot of timing for a more efficient burn, but there is nothing to benefit with being at wot and seeing 30 degs of timing; your timing really shouldnt advance too far above 22-23 especially not on pump gas imo.
( Thats if you were running some decent boost.)

 

[JeffGST]

I didnt think 560s would give someone that much timing on a safc.
Your timing seems to be higher than normal, especially considering there are people getting away with
650s on a safc. Your current timing map wont allow you to run any decent boost on pump gas alone.
This is why safcs are garbadge for anything more than "small" fuel adjustments imo.

The timing curve he's running is completely normal for his airflow level. He is only at 16lbs/min, which is in 1/2 throttle range for most DSM's.

 

[Black_Bullet]

The timing curve he's running is completely normal for his airflow level. He is only at 16lbs/min, which is in 1/2 throttle range for most DSM's.

Oh i see, then the next question is why is his airflow so low?

Op is your TB opening correctly, I heard you mention 88% tps.

 

[kmoore]

There is deffinately something wrong with your TPS. Make sure the butterfly in your TB is opening up a full 98-100%.