ECMlink Timing on DSMLink bouncing around?

[blackhawkgsx]

Hey guys for the past few days I have been doing some idle logs, setting base timing, and trying to get my global and dead time dialed in . I finally got in to idle decent but i have noticed on link my timing goes all over the place from 5.0-22.0 should it be doing this?

 

[Mr Peepers]

The ECU uses timing as a way to control idle along with the ISC.

 

[blackhawkgsx]

The ECU uses timing as a way to control idle along with the ISC.

and also my isc wont stay close to 30 at idle it jumps up and down could this be a bad cas and or isc? im trying to post a log as soon as I can

 

[DSMTyson]

and also my isc wont stay close to 30 at idle it jumps up and down could this be a bad cas and or isc? im trying to post a log as soon as I can

You have a boost leak somewhere. Do a BLT and fix the leaks. That is causing the erratic ISCPosition .

 

[blackhawkgsx]

I did a blt, the intake mani gasket was ripped so I replaced that did another blt and only leak I found was the hallman mbc at the knob how can I fix that?

 

[Calan]

You need to go to the Miscellaneous tab in Link and check the "Ground timing connector to ECU" box, and then set your base timing to 5*. When that box is not checked (normal operation), the ECU is constantly adjusting ignition timing to control idle and torque demand, based on the values in the DA timing tables. With the box checked, the ECU is out of the loop and you can check the mechanical timing to make sure it is at 5* BTDC.

You also need to properly adjust the BISS, by using the Miscellaneous tab to ground the diagnostic pin. You can then adjust the BISS for your target idle RPM while monitoring ISCPosition in ECMLink.

Don't forget to uncheck both boxes when finished.

 

[blackhawkgsx]

Thanks Calan I will do this today , But I do not have a timing cover at the moment because it cracked when my cam gear gave up ... I have read another tread about setting base timing with no timing cover , it has a video but it doesnt work . Does any one have more info on how to do this ?

to my understanding you make sure the notches on the cam gears match up as if i was doing a timing job..

Also if I check the "ground timing connector to ecu" is the timing on link just going to stay at 5.0 no matter how I move the CAS? because I move the CAS and it stays at 5.0

 

[Calan]

Yeah...you can aim the light at the timing gears and do it that way, but it's less accurate. You can't really tell where 5* BTDC is without a reference.

EDIT: In reference to MY1GDSM's post below, I don't really trust adjustable lights unless I have checked them out first. The one I currently have is off by at least a degree or two for some reason. YMMV

Just grab a timing cover from somewhere...should be easy to find used, and new shouldn't be all that much.

I believe this is what you are needing: OEM TIMING BELT COVER LOWER : MITSUBISHI ECLIPSE 95-99 #20365

 

[MY1GDSM]

Thanks Calan I will do this today , But I do not have a timing cover at the moment because it cracked when my cam gear gave up ... I have read another tread about setting base timing with no timing cover , it has a video but it doesnt work . Does any one have more info on how to do this ?

to my understanding you make sure the notches on the cam gears match up as if i was doing a timing job..

First off yes you can time the engine the way your saying above. BUT, you can't use just any timing light. It has to be an adjustable timing light like THIS IE: you set it a 5* an adjust your timing till your Cam gear notches line up.

Second your driving around with out a T-belt cover?

 

[blackhawkgsx]

Can I use the 95-99 lower timing cover with a 6 bolt? I was told I couldn't.

I have an adjustable light , on link when the ground timing is check is the timing supposed to just stay at 5.0?

Thanks GUYS! I really appreciate the quick help!

 

[Calan]

Can I use the 95-99 lower timing cover with a 6 bolt?

No... you'll need this one: OEM TIMING BELT COVER LOWER: MITSUBISHI ECLIPSE 6 BOLT #18424 (MD141454)

Sorry, didn't realize you were on a 6-bolt.

 

[blackhawkgsx]

Okay I will order another one. When the timing connector is ground on link should the timing I am logging on link move when I move the cam angle sensor or does it stay at 5.0*?

 

[Calan]

I haven't actually looked at ECMlink while setting the base timing in forever, but I believe it should show the true mechanical timing, based on where the CAS is... IIRC.

I'm having trouble remembering what the ECU logs when the timing connector is grounded.

 

[snowborder714]

It should stay at a constant 5* when grounded, even when adjusting the CAS.

 

[Calan]

It should stay at a constant 5* when grounded, even when adjusting the CAS.

So it doesn't show 5* plus or minus whatever adjustment the CAS is giving it? I know it ignores timing changes based on the DA tables, but it seems that it would still consider the CAS.

 

[blackhawkgsx]

Thanks guys !

 

[snowborder714]

Not that I'm aware of. I even asked Tom and he said the same thing. Either that or my timing is always perfect. I'd go play with this if I was home. Anyone else want to verify?

 

[Calan]

I'll check it out this evening when I get home. I'm curious now.

 

[MY1GDSM]

It should stay at a constant 5* when grounded, even when adjusting the CAS.

I'm about 99% sure this is the case, I messed around with mine tonight an as far as I could see the timing in the log stayed constant @ 5*. Though to be honest I didn't have this topic in my head at the time just was getting the car dialed back in(Upgrades)... .


Also, just for reference OP how-set-base-timing-without-using-lower-timing-cover

 

[RavenX]

You also need to properly adjust the BISS, by using the Miscellaneous tab to ground the diagnostic pin. You can then adjust the BISS for your target idle RPM while monitoring ISCPosition in ECMLink.

There's no need to this anymore. You only had to it with dsmlink v2. With ecmlink v3 you just log iscposition and move the biss until you see 30-32. Also make sure you do your tps adjustment in case you haven't yet. There's a thread on the dsmlink forums where Tom explained why there was no need to ground the connector anymore when setting the idle.

 

[Calan]

There's no need to this anymore. You only had to it with dsmlink v2. With ecmlink v3 you just log iscposition and move the biss until you see 30-32....There's a thread on the dsmlink forums where Tom explained why there was no need to ground the connector anymore when setting the idle.

Well I'll be damn; I'll have to check that out. Does ECMLink (V3) no longer disable the ISC when the diagnostic plug is grounded?

Thanks for the heads up.

 

[RavenX]

Well I'll be damn; I'll have to check that out. Does ECMLink (V3) no longer disable the ISC when the diagnostic plug is grounded?

Thanks for the heads up.

Am not sure. I would have to look up the thread again. I found it a few months back when I put in another ISC I got. I'll let you know when I find it.

I believe the values you have to log/achieve are:

ISCposition - 30-32

LearnedIdleAdjust - 120 i think.

TPS Volts - .65v

IdleSW - 1

 

[KeelesKustome]

I'd like to inquire some of your brain cells.

Dealing with base timing. If you check the box to ground the pin on the CAS do you still have to use a timing light?
I ask because this is the obdII erra. A diagnostic machine such as a snapon code reader shows real time unmolested data. Am i understanding that the CAS could be sending false data to the ecu on the timing? Thus causing you to have to manualy use a light? A mechanic friend is the one who sugeested we just do a datalog on the reader and adjust the cas in real time to get the correct base timing, even though we couldn't completely.

For example, my setup after my timing belt replace showed me on the snapon diagnostic machine, the closest to 5tdc i could get was 8tdc by moving the cam angle sensor as far left as possible.
This did intrigue me, so i've been researching. All my marks on the crank plate behind the pully and the cam gears line up perfectly, after a few weeks of driving. That seemes odd to me since i can't get it to 5tdc.

So I'm considering new options. like retarding timing on link to compensate, if it's even possible.
A little back storry: 2g 6bolt swap with 2g pistons and i have the rewire setup and the non cas style selected in the box with an automatic tranny.

I personally don't have a timing light,

What do you think the solution should be?

 

[MY1GDSM]

To ground the timing diagnostic pin and set the base timing with a timing light.

 

[RavenX]

^I would personally trust more what the timing light tells me than what the diagnostic machine does. But like you said you could always compensate the added timing by using link to lower the timing in case you can't.