throttle body swap problems

[madman]

I just put a 1G TB on and I'm having major idling and running issues.

I don't have the scan tool and havn't been able to get a hold of one yet to due the "proper"
BISS adjustment.

Right off the bat the car idled around 2k so I turned the BISS screw all they down and it still idles around 1200. So I took the car for a little run around the block and it felt like it was missing. Even the shop thought that I needed new plugs, my wires are magnecor 8.5 and only 2 months old.

So I put in new pugs NGK BPR7ES and it still sputters around the block. Is this due the BISS being out of adjustment? Could that affect timming at all? What would make it run so crapy?

TB has new shaft seals and new BISS o ring.

 

[blackGSX2g]

Are all the nipples on the top blocked off? It sounds like you have a boost/vacuum leak. If you have a vacuum leak at/after the throttle body, it will cause increased idle.

You could also check to make sure your throttle cable is not too tight.

 

[sweet97]

Do you have the coolant lines hooked to the TB? They are needed to bring the idle down. There is always the possibility the FIAV is bad. Fast Idle Air Valve. Mark

 

[madman]

Nipples -- I ran hoses to each other to block them off, 2x2 instead of 4 caps.

Coolant lines -- are hooked and no leaks, but one of them is kinked a little, would that make a difference?

All new gaskets.

I'm not so worried about the fast idle as I am the choppy/missing engine as I'm test driving.

Would they be related porblems though.

FIAV -- came off of my origional TB and everything ran smooth before I swaped the TB's.

Throttle cable -- has just a little slack in it, definetly not too tight. Wasn't sure though if there should be any slack.

I'm thiking of trying to adjust the SAS screw, even though it sounds like they don't suggest it or as a last resort, but in the FVAQ it mentioned it like in my case, BISS screw all the way closed and still fast idle.

I also put in 650cc fuel injectors but I don't think that would have much affect.

 

[eclpsgsx97]

TPS within spec?

 

[sweet97]

Too much fuel. Go back to smaller injectors or get an AFPR. My .02 Mark

 

[madman]

TPS -- I adjusted it before I put it on and went off of VAQ for the specs.

FUEL -- I'm using the SAFC to adjust the fuel and the trims are within +- 4.

 

[madman]

Are all the nipples on the top blocked off? It sounds like you have a boost/vacuum leak. If you have a vacuum leak at/after the throttle body, it will cause increased idle.

Would a boost leak make it run bad, like it is missing?

 

[blackGSX2g]

Would a boost leak make it run bad, like it is missing?

A small boost leak shouldn't cause your car to be missing at idle, but it would affect your drivability.

Don't mean to point out the obvious, but did you plug your GM MAF back in? I just swapped in a different 60mm throttle body yesterday and forgot to plug that thing back in and it ran like crap as well.

 

[madman]

A small boost leak shouldn't cause your car to be missing at idle, but it would affect your drivability.

Don't mean to point out the obvious, but did you plug your GM MAF back in? I just swapped in a different 60mm throttle body yesterday and forgot to plug that thing back in and it ran like crap as well.

Drivability is my main problem right now, I have a little fast Idle but if it's not related I want to get the drivability issue solved first. I'll try to check for boost leaks and go from there.

The GM MAF is on my list of things waiting to go in. It's not on yet.

 

[madman]

** UPDATE **

The kinked coolant hose going to the TB caused the idle fast issue. I took some pliars and squeezed the kink out and the idle dropped down to 870..... so I replaced the hose with a longer one too keep it from kinking.

I would deffinetly suggest getting factory hoses for anyone who is going to replace them. I bought the same size hose at the part shop, but the factory hose is shapped the propper way.

I put my origional injectors back in just to eliminate possiblities with the choppy driving. It didn't help.

My car sounds and feels like a helicopter when I give it any gas under a load (while driving). It idles perfect and smooth.

EDIT ---

I just replaced my stock TB and still having problems.

I blocked off the EGR, could that created an issue?

 

[sweet97]

It's not the EGR unless it's leaking badly which is possible. Mine did so I used the original EGR to hold down the steel cover I made after that. How about the plug gap? I had to lower mine to .022" at one time to stop it from breaking up at higher rpm's. Mark

Try removing the plug wires one at a time with the motor idling. If you remove one and no difference there is the problem cylinder. How about the wires, correct order? 1G's are 4,1,2,3. Removing the wires one at a time will tell you quick if you have a problem with spark or fuel in a cylinder. You won't get zapped either. Mark

 

[madman]

It's not the EGR unless it's leaking badly which is possible. Mine did so I used the original EGR to hold down the steel cover I made after that. How about the plug gap? I had to lower mine to .022" at one time to stop it from breaking up at higher rpm's. Mark

Try removing the plug wires one at a time with the motor idling. If you remove one and no difference there is the problem cylinder. How about the wires, correct order? 1G's are 4,1,2,3. Removing the wires one at a time will tell you quick if you have a problem with spark or fuel in a cylinder. You won't get zapped either. Mark

I took the plugs out and each one sparked when I put them back in. I'm guessing that should be normal. Other than that nothing happened.

I even swapped out wires so I've eliminated everything but a leak.

I have a shop going to do the test for me Thur since I don't have a compressor to do it myself.

I'm still wondering would a boost leak feel like the car is missing when you drive it? Hesitates at low RPM's but actually smooths out at higher RPM but still sounds like it's missing.

When the car is idleing and I give it gas and let off, it sounds like it's sucking air back in the exhaust.

 

[dsmsucks]

What kind of gasket did you use for the tb? Make sure the gasket really seals the tb!

 

[kraka]

Kinda feel like an idiot, but the 4 nipples you have plugged off, what do the lines usually come from??

I know I have 4 vacuum lines coming from my stock Tbody and I never really care until now

 

[quiksilver38]

yea i also have the same stupid warm-up mode on the 1g TB on my 2g. as there any simple way to get rid of this?????? i just want it to stay at 800rpm at all times at idle, even when its cold. Also DOES ANYBODY HAVE A PICTURE OF THE TOP OF THERE THROTTLE BODY 1g on 2g VACUUM LINES so we all can hook them up right? the vfaq isnt help b\c my 2g one only has only 2 to start off with since mines a 1999. oh yea and my TPS and BISS are in the sweet spot

 

[madman]

What kind of gasket did you use for the tb? Make sure the gasket really seals the tb!

I got a 1G TB gasket from the dealership.

Kinda feel like an idiot, but the 4 nipples you have plugged off, what do the lines usually come from??

I know I have 4 vacuum lines coming from my stock Tbody and I never really care until now

The lines off of the TB are mostly for emissions that hook up to the soleniods on the firewall. That's about the extent of my knowlege of them. There is some debate over this, but most people believe that they are not necessary to run the car, so take them out and it may eliminate the chances of air leaks. Makes the engine compartment look cleaner, less clutter.


Ok, I have another thought about my problem.

I soaked my intake manifold with carb cleaner to, well clean it. I think I remember hearing that the carb cleaner may make you car run a little rough after using it. Is that true? It was pretty heavliy fumigated, would those fumes affect the A/F mixtue which would make my car run rough / feel like its missing when you give it gas?

My car does seem to be running a little better the more I run it. I have still only put maybe 20 miles on it since I put the IM on.

Any thoughts?

 

[sweet97]

Dennis I would really like to see this work for you so if I am repeating myself please forgive me. Have you done a boost leak test? You mentioned the EGR block. Yesterday I drove my car and something was off and when I popped the hood the BOV line was off. You would have thought it would have manifested itself earlier or rougher but it took a bit of boost to act up and I got no knock.
I think you need to start from square 1 and do it all. Contact Jon at www.o2induction.com and ask him, tell him a cutomer recommended him. Mark

 

[madman]

Dennis I would really like to see this work for you so if I am repeating myself please forgive me. Have you done a boost leak test? You mentioned the EGR block. Yesterday I drove my car and something was off and when I popped the hood the BOV line was off. You would have thought it would have manifested itself earlier or rougher but it took a bit of boost to act up and I got no knock.
I think you need to start from square 1 and do it all. Contact Jon at www.o2induction.com and ask him, tell him a cutomer recommended him. Mark

In post #13 I mentioned I will be getting the boost leak test done for me on Thursay.

I keep asking but no one says yes or no........ would a boost leak make the car feel like it's missing?

blackgsx2g said that it would affect your drivability, but how? What's the symptoms?

 

[jasteel13]

I have had a small boost leak that made the car feel like it was missing. It ended up being the stock plastic pipe in the fender on the top of the stock intercooler, it had a little crack in it and it missed pretty bad the whole time it took me a week to figure it out.

 

[sweet97]

With a leak after the MAS you would run rich because the MAS sees "X" amount of air being drawn in and the ECU supplies fuel for that air but the air never reaches the cylinders so your motor so you have the fuel but not the correct amount of air and it will spit and sputter. The higher the boost the worse the condition in my experience. Mark
PS: You can try spraying some starting fluid or carb cleaner around the new parts and see if the idle changes.

 

[madman]

Thank you, and thanks for your patience with me......

My car is at the shop for an unrelated problem so I don't have it at the moment, but I keep retracing my steps in my head and looking at the Voodoo shop diagram.

The intake pipe has two nipples after the MAS correct? One of them goes to the canister if I remember right, yet the diagram doesn't show only but 1 hose running to the intake pipe.

I think I forgot to cap off the second nipple that ran to the canister......so there is my boost leak.....

 

[dsmsucks]

Again, make sure the gasket is really sealing the tb. Oldman told me not to go to the deal because even they wouldnt have the gasket.
Try diamondstarmotorsport.com, they have an example of the gaskets!
good luck

 

[madman]

Sooooo......I have the car at MITSU and they did a compression check.......150 150 50 150

I feel a big bill comming on

 

[dsmsucks]

Yeah man that 50 doesnt look good!