The 16g Drag Race Discussion Thread

[Phil1320]

So the last 2 weekends I've made 3 attempts to go to the track and everytime's been rained out :-\ Waste of time and the track's closed for the year. Big disappointment.

The car's definitely the strongest it's been, and with ECMlink V3's boost by gear, the car's holding 30-32psi at 7000rpms. I was hoping to see an increase in trap speed, and a damn 10 second pass!

Now the question is... winter time, let the car sit as is with a few new mods, or HTA30r time....

After what you posted above, my vote is for you to wait until next year and give it a shot early in the season. I'd leave the talon as it is and work on your VR4 or something. Why not try the HTA30r out on that car? Then just swap the turbos next year? Just a thought, not sure what type of supporting mods you have on the Galant. But, that's my vote.

You ever gonna put a rollbar in the Talon?

"DST" is a stock appearing class. The only rules really where a td05h/t25 appearing turbo and no spray. I don't know what the cars were running this year, but many were gutted and fully built, but all it took for me was an unported evo3 and a stock motor to win the class

Stop dissing gutted out cars and bragging and get the damn rollbar in your car you illegal drag racer

 

[Nate Crisman]

I'll see if I can find any tomorrow. It might be just that I'm spiking higher... The car would break up after a shift (stock ignition), so I have first and 2nd gear set to 27-30psi, and 3rd and up spike 37(!!) and settles to 30-32. I have the WG set to 100% at about 5000rpm and up so the thing is trying to stay shut as much as possible I'd guess. Or maybe it's just the colder weather we've been having latley? Hard to say if it's 100% the reason, but I do like it.

Well, seems your "cranking it up" a lot more than me

Here is the boost curves I ran on both my best passes with either trans. Im only spiking it up to 33 with the stick trans and it settles immediatly to under 30 and rides a smooth ramp down. With the auto trans it doesn't seem to spike as much and is more steady. Seems to hold out a bit more, but that might be due to more load in auto3rd vs stick3rd. Both of these are nitrous runs btw which seem to help with making about 2psi more boost. MBC was untouched between these two runs, only changes are the auto trans and lack of intake pipe on the auto run.

RPM - Stick boost - Auto boost (both trans in 3rd gear)
5500 - 33.0 - 30.6
5750 - 30.3 - 30.1
6000 - 28.6 - 29.1
6250 - 26.8 - 27.9
6500 - 25.6 - 26.6
6750 - 24.9 - 25.7
7000 - 24.2 - 25.2
7250 - 23.4 - 25.2
7500 - 23.2 - 25.2
7750 - 0.00 - 24.9
8000 - 0.00 - 24.7


Im planning to use the DSMlink boost control mostly to be able to set the boost level for launch on the converter, as with the MBC set to run the above curve, it will max out my AEM 3.5bar map sensor sitting on the line if I stay on the brake long enough (then smoke tire off the launch). My guess Is I'll end up running 100% duty cycle from 6000 up and simply use the 5000 and 5500 cells in the table to keep the spike just under maxing the map sensor.

On my GVR4 street car with a stock motor and small 16g/fmic with the same method: use the 3000 to 4500 cells to manage the spike and from 5000 up it's set to 100% even on the street on pumpgas. It barely holds 21psi to 7000rpm with the spike managed down to about 23.5 to 24.0psi. All the "boost by rpm" gained me was the ability to fine tune the boost spike in each gear. It didn't seem to make didly squat difference in boost level past the 5000rpm point where I think the wastegate door is being blown open by exhaust pressure. I can set it to anything between 65% and 100% duty cycle from that point up and get exactly the same datalog of map sensor.

 

[Nate Crisman]

I blew up hardcore, actually blew the top end tank off the radiator! Video is uploading...its pretty cool...we had 3 cameras. Tells the story well I think.

anyway, I made one half pass today.... 10.67 @ 105mph. yes 105mph on the brakes. It blew up after the 2-3 shift and I stayed in it till the 3-4 shift when it really started sounding bad and coolant smoke came up onto windshield. Looks like Im going to have to put together another motor for 2011, no big deal. This motor was the one I blew up in my GVR4 last fall and it just got "slapped together" and stuck in the 1G. It pushed coolant from day 1, so it's no surprise it only made 5 track days before giving it up. oh well. such is budget racing on "junkyard" parts. Can't expect a motor with a severely blown stock hg to be leak free by just slapping a metal hg on without any machine work.

I set the DSMlink boost control on the conservative side of about 65% DC for the launch rpms of 3000-4500rpm and had it at 100% duty cycle from 6000 up. The car left at 20psi around 4000rpm and ran a fairly normal 30psi falling to 25psi curve down the track. But 20psi was not enough for the launch: it was weak only 1.58 (it went 1.48 twice last time out when I left at about 25psi and 4300rpm).

Still ran a new best 1/8mile of 6.71 @ 106.67 which is .119 and 3+mph better than on the 10.62 @ 128.8 ([email protected] on a 1.48) on halloween last time out. So, progress was made in sorting the car out. I guestimate this would have been about a 10.35 ET and likely 130mph had it not blown up and I stayed in it.

OD switch worked, although I was out of the throttle at that point.
Limit strap brackets didn't break or bend
DSMlink boost control correctly determined gears and held steady boost on converter (just set too low)
Cold air intake seems to have helped hold a bit more boost and kept AIT down a little.

It did start to creep through the beams even with a "neutral rev" to capture maximum vacuum in the brake booster, so I think Im definitely going to have to add a vacuum pump and maybe extend the pedal for more leverage to keep the car from pulling through the brakes.

YouTube - DSMpartout 16G 1G Auto - 10.67 blown up half track

 

[Phil1320]

Again, bummer man. But, like you said, with what you had, the car held up pretty good and ran well. So, next year the car should fairly easily step into the 9's and the way it ran so far, you might touch mid 9's. Now that would be something else......

 

[Nate Crisman]

Again, bummer man. But, like you said, with what you had, the car held up pretty good and ran well. So, next year the car should fairly easily step into the 9's and the way it ran so far, you might touch mid 9's. Now that would be something else......

Yeah, I can't complain at all about the motor. It held up for 18 passes and most of those 18 runs were some pretty hard beatings while experimenting with the mixed fuel & nitrous. It held up to being run too lean, seeing knock on alky without tossing a rod out the bottom which is admirable for a stocker. No regrets.

Next year I have plenty of plans to improve the setup. There is significant weight to be lost, significant power to be gained, and significant waste of energy to be eliminated. Plus it would be nice to get some of the body and trim finally complete. The car has been missing the pass door moulding since freaking 2004 when I painted the car...the part just needs to be glued on! Same with a rear 1/4 window molding. My brother in law runs a vinyl sign shop that does vehicle wraps, I think Im going to get him to do a partial wrap on the car after the front airdam and hood are fixed up (the molded in popup covers are cracking).

2011: the car is going to look like Project Goodwill on the inside gutted racecar.

 

[GRAVEDIGGER]

2011: the car is going to look like Project Goodwill on the inside gutted racecar.

Ha ha ha... That's what I like to hear. Down and dirty racing at it's finest... I love it and I can't wait to see what you can do next year. I applaud you for your effort.

 

[Phil1320]

Yeah, I can't complain at all about the motor. It held up for 18 passes and most of those 18 runs were some pretty hard beatings while experimenting with the mixed fuel & nitrous. It held up to being run too lean, seeing knock on alky without tossing a rod out the bottom which is admirable for a stocker. No regrets.

Next year I have plenty of plans to improve the setup. There is significant weight to be lost, significant power to be gained, and significant waste of energy to be eliminated. Plus it would be nice to get some of the body and trim finally complete. The car has been missing the pass door moulding since freaking 2004 when I painted the car...the part just needs to be glued on! Same with a rear 1/4 window molding. My brother in law runs a vinyl sign shop that does vehicle wraps, I think Im going to get him to do a partial wrap on the car after the front airdam and hood are fixed up (the molded in popup covers are cracking).

2011: the car is going to look like Project Goodwill on the inside gutted racecar.

Sounds good Nate. And as far as project goodwill, my car is just about there except I still have a dash and factory instrument cluster. If the car is a track only car, I don't see any reason not to make it as light as absolutely possible. I understand guys that still run their cars on the street not wanting to do this. But, guys that claim to have "street" cars with full interiors but are running 7 second 1/4's.....right. Total street car, I'm sure it can turn corners too. Point is, why carry extra weight? No matter if it's a small turbo or large.

 

[Nate Crisman]

Yup, I have given up all second thoughts that "someday I might want to put it back on the street" and have finally resigned to just go all out on the racecar prep. I was somewhat holding out thinking I'd maybe run "street 16" type races, but the car is already too light and missing too much.

So gutted tin can it will be.

 

[Phil1320]

Yup, I have given up all second thoughts that "someday I might want to put it back on the street" and have finally resigned to just go all out on the racecar prep. I was somewhat holding out thinking I'd maybe run "street 16" type races, but the car is already too light and missing too much.

So gutted tin can it will be.

Nice And, if you ever wanted a street class car, you get your hands on enough dsm's, you can build a different car for that type of competition. I have absolutely no use for a fast/toy streetcar in my life now. Hell, I barely drive my VR4 at all so that's about to go up for sale. I just cruise around in my SUV and I love it.

I'm glad you're gonna go all out.....like you said, a "full" effort back when we were talking about what it would take to beat Bucci. So, this will be part of that full effort.

Last, on this subject: lots of people out there that discount "gutted out tin cans." Lotsa haters. Couldn't care less on my end. Couldn't care less what the haters say. Speed is speed, no matter what. I used to have guys that I whooped in street races telling me to put my interior back in my car "and then we'll see what happens." I used to laugh and say, "you lost, take your interior out and we'll see what happens." So, couldn't care less if you have a full street trim car....big deal....all it means is you have to make more power to run the same ET if you were lighter. BFD.

 

[Nate Crisman]

Nice And, if you ever wanted a street class car, you get your hands on enough dsm's, you can build a different car for that type of competition. I have absolutely no use for a fast/toy streetcar in my life now. Hell, I barely drive my VR4 at all so that's about to go up for sale. I just cruise around in my SUV and I love it.

I'm glad you're gonna go all out.....like you said, a "full" effort back when we were talking about what it would take to beat Bucci. So, this will be part of that full effort.

Last, on this subject: lots of people out there that discount "gutted out tin cans." Lotsa haters. Couldn't care less on my end. Couldn't care less what the haters say. Speed is speed, no matter what. I used to have guys that I whooped in street races telling me to put my interior back in my car "and then we'll see what happens." I used to laugh and say, "you lost, take your interior out and we'll see what happens." So, couldn't care less if you have a full street trim car....big deal....all it means is you have to make more power to run the same ET if you were lighter. BFD.

Ya, I agree on all points. When we were bench racing about what it would take to beat Proj goodwill over last winter, I honestly thought that the overall 9 second 16g record would be really out of reach due to weight/power. I had expected to get the 14b/nitrous record and nothing else. It's kinda funny how the plans change simply by the cards your dealt in which I never touched a 14b but I feel Im 85% of the way to the quickest record and it's within reach.

With the consistency, smooth launch, and great ET/mph efficiency of the automatic, I think next season I'll be prepared to make a serious challenge to all 4 small turbo records. It will be very interesting to see how much the mph drops off when taking the 16g cartridge off and putting a 14b cartridge in with no other changes. On the "with nitrous" records, in thory, the limiting factor is exhaust backpressure. I "should" be able to run the same mph with both the 14b and the 16g....the 14b's less airflow can just be made up for by a higher nitrous flow.

Not so sure on the 14b/no nitrous 10.86 record though. Not sure there is enough power there to overcome the auto-awd weight especially if I decide to throw another stock motor in the car instead of a high compression race motor. That's still going to be the hardest record of them all to take.

 

[Phil1320]

Ya, I agree on all points. When we were bench racing about what it would take to beat Proj goodwill over last winter, I honestly thought that the overall 9 second 16g record would be really out of reach due to weight/power. I had expected to get the 14b/nitrous record and nothing else. It's kinda funny how the plans change simply by the cards your dealt in which I never touched a 14b but I feel Im 85% of the way to the quickest record and it's within reach.

With the consistency, smooth launch, and great ET/mph efficiency of the automatic, I think next season I'll be prepared to make a serious challenge to all 4 small turbo records. It will be very interesting to see how much the mph drops off when taking the 16g cartridge off and putting a 14b cartridge in with no other changes. On the "with nitrous" records, in thory, the limiting factor is exhaust backpressure. I "should" be able to run the same mph with both the 14b and the 16g....the 14b's less airflow can just be made up for by a higher nitrous flow.

Not so sure on the 14b/no nitrous 10.86 record though. Not sure there is enough power there to overcome the auto-awd weight especially if I decide to throw another stock motor in the car instead of a high compression race motor. That's still going to be the hardest record of them all to take.

Very cool...I'm sure next season will be a killer one for you! And I agree, the NO NOS 14b record will be the hardest to beat for sure---go figure it's the bracket I fall into Oh well!

Should be interesting for sure....

 

[Nate Crisman]

autopsy pics:

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I have a theory that 40* intake temps causing the methanol coming out of the single wet nitrous fogger in the upper ic pipe to fall out of suspension and not be evenly distributed with #4 going very lean and blowing up.

 

[flyineagletsi]

autopsy pics:

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I have a theory that 40* intake temps causing the methanol coming out of the single wet nitrous fogger in the upper ic pipe to fall out of suspension and not be evenly distributed with #4 going very lean and blowing up.

Holy sh!t. Ha ha, so you think thats a useable core?

 

[sexystover]

rana 13.4 at 104 with no launch and missing 4th.

mod list

Engine- head studs, BC 272 cams, rest is stock

Turbo/Intake- EVO3 16g unported, big FMIC 2.5 inch piping, GM maf with MAFT

Exhaust- 2g mani and o2 housing unported, unknown exhaust with testpipe

Trans/Clutch- ACT 2600 rest is stock

Fuel- Walboro 255 rewired, AFPR, 93 or 92 oct pump gas

Tuning- SAFC 2


running 8psi creeping to 22psi by redline tuned by myself

shooting for mid 12s this weekend if i get my clutch issue sorted out

 

[FonZ454]

8 psi creeping to 22... I don't get it.. .why?

 

[pneumo]

sexystover, I can understand why you're running 22psi, but why start at 8psi?

autopsy pics:

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I have a theory that 40* intake temps causing the methanol coming out of the single wet nitrous fogger in the upper ic pipe to fall out of suspension and not be evenly distributed with #4 going very lean and blowing up.

In this pic I see signs of detonation on the side of the combustion chamber between the intake and exhaust valve. It's common since that's where coolant is the hottest, so that part of the head runs hotter than the other cylinders. Persistent knock leaves a rough, pitted texture in aluminum.

 

[Phil1320]

I'm guessing the car is FWD?

 

[sexystover]

8 psi creeping to 22... I don't get it.. .why?

did a boost leak test today and found out my wastegate line was split, so it would spool 8 and then start leaking so it would creep to 22, now i have it at 15psi after fixing the split no more creeping , but it sure feels slower, guess i have to invest in a boost controller

also swapped out egay downpipe and test pipe for an apexi N1 downpipe/cat delete

 

[sexystover]

well ran a 13.4 at 102 on the 8psi setup after fixing the boost leak, got my hallman
MBC installed so now its running 18psi with a 20psi spike when it spools, shooting for 12s

 

[Phil1320]

well ran a 13.4 at 102 on the 8psi setup after fixing the boost leak, got my hallman
MBC installed so now its running 18psi with a 20psi spike when it spools, shooting for 12s

I'm sure you can hit 12's....just get alot of seat time that's all.

 

[sexystover]

I'm sure you can hit 12's....just get alot of seat time that's all.

thanks, id like to be runninng your times, anywhere i can see your current setup/power numbers?

 

[Phil1320]

thanks, id like to be runninng your times, anywhere i can see your current setup/power numbers?

I'm sure you can get into the 11's, but first you have to decide what your plan is and how you want to proceed......example: you want to run 11's in a full weight street car......

Honestly, the best place to see what I'm up to and info on my car is here:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drag-strip/355512-14b-drag-race-discussion-thread.html

or here:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/blogs/phil1320/

It would be a hell of alot of reading to run through the whole thread, but maybe check the first few pages and then jump to the last few, although if you have some time here and there, alot of good info is available and may interest you. Thanks for the interest!

 

[Nate Crisman]

I'm sure you can get into the 11's, but first you have to decide what your plan is and how you want to proceed......example: you want to run 11's in a full weight street car......

Honestly, the best place to see what I'm up to and info on my car is here:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drag-strip/355512-14b-drag-race-discussion-thread.html

or here:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/blogs/phil1320/

It would be a hell of alot of reading to run through the whole thread, but maybe check the first few pages and then jump to the last few, although if you have some time here and there, alot of good info is available and may interest you. Thanks for the interest!

It's a significant amount of reading, but that whole thread is worth the time to go through if your serious about little turbo performance. We batted around quite a few ideas and setups, there is much to absorb.

 

[Phil1320]

It's a significant amount of reading, but that whole thread is worth the time to go through if your serious about little turbo performance. We batted around quite a few ideas and setups, there is much to absorb.

How could I not agree. There is some pretty cool stuff in there for sure. I don't think there is a more interesting thread in the Drag Race forum. Call me biased....fine with me

 

[sexystover]

haha yea i want someone to walk up to my car and think "ok he has an exhaust and a front mount" but be able to line up next to him and run a 11.2 or less