The 16g Drag Race Discussion Thread

[ferruchnuts44]

Thanks for chiming in, Chris, that's cool.
Do you have any plans to push the 16G faster this season?

Yeah I plan on pushing it as far it it'll go this year, we'll see what happens. I got a few ideas I might try. Also the car had a few issues on the 10.62 pass and the next time out was definately making more power...but was out of pump, went lean, and bye bye headgasket haha. Should be a fun year for all the 16g guys!

 

[pneumo]

Yeah I plan on pushing it as far it it'll go this year, we'll see what happens. I got a few ideas I might try. Also the car had a few issues on the 10.62 pass and the next time out was definately making more power...but was out of pump, went lean, and bye bye headgasket haha. Should be a fun year for all the 16g guys!

Wow, sorry to hear about the headgasket. Coincidentally I also ran lean with one pump on E85, but I caught it before it went too lean. I have 2 Walbro's in the tank now.
Who would've thought we'd need 2 pumps with a 16G?

 

[forcefed86]

Wow, sorry to hear about the headgasket. Coincidentally I also ran lean with one pump on E85, but I caught it before it went too lean. I have 2 Walbro's in the tank now.
Who would've thought we'd need 2 pumps with a 16G?

Just FYI I thought my pump had failed (denso TT pump) and I was looking for a replacement. The jay racing 340 (walbro style) pumps are good for 600+ on e85. I'm sure this depends heavily on the setup and it may not support 600 on all e85 setups. But Jay told me one of his customers made 621AWHP with this pump and e85.

Not bad for $150! flows 340lpr at 40psi and still pumps out 270lph at 70psi. If you can get by with a low base pressure your pump won't loose the volume up top. I run 30 base. Any less and I start to have idle issues.

I'm still running my denso TT pump (super quiet) at 15v or so with 1000cc injectors. DC is in the low 90's at initial spike and settles to high 80's by the end of the pass. I'm on factory fuel lines and filter. I'm also concerned about running out of pump. So far I think I'm good :fingers crossed:

 

[ferruchnuts44]

Yeah that may be the route I need to take as far as pumps go, being a 2nd gen its a real pain in the ass to go double pump in tank. I drive my car on the street alot and hate the noise of the external pumps. Thanks for the info on the numbers on the Jay Racing pump, I don't forsee me making over 600 on a 16g anytime soon

 

[Nate Crisman]

Hrm, you guys are making me wonder about my pump capacity! I'm running a Bosch 044 external pump off a fender mount 1gal cell with -6 lines. Going up to 1650cc injectors this year (from 950's) and was hoping to run a heavier meth ratio in the cell starting at 50/50 and mixing more meth until I run out of capacity. Maybe I should consider adding a second 044? The fuel cell has a second feed fitting that I have blocked off, and I assume I'd need some sort of Y shaped -6 union to join the two pump outlets together before the rail.

 

[turbotalon1g]

I just wanted to say a quick thanks to the contributors of this thread. I ran a 11.7@120 on my E316G on E85 in '08 and knew there a bit left but not as much as you guys have shown.

I sold that car and picked up an auto last year because it was dirt cheap and rust free, it has chewed up E316g on it now, but being an auto and full weight I have no clue what it will do. I plan on keeping it a street car so it will retain heat and A/C and get a decent stereo setup. I usually drive at least 20k per season (MN we only get 6 months of salt free roads) so I want it to be comfy and fun to drive.

With that said do you think a E85 E316G car that is full weight can run a good time? Or will the weight be that much of a hurdle to get over?

Is Nate the only 16G + nitrous car in the running?

 

[Nate Crisman]

With that said do you think a E85 E316G car that is full weight can run a good time? Or will the weight be that much of a hurdle to get over?

Is Nate the only 16G + nitrous car in the running?

As far as I can tell, everyone else is categorically against nitrous so it's just me and Bucci. On the other hand, Im planning to tailer my setup towards sans-n20 this season in order to get ready for the DST class where it's barred. Planning to spray the car in testing, but I'll most likely run the first couple times out at the track without it in order to get the base tune on the new setup straight.

 

[TSimage]

I just wanted to say a quick thanks to the contributors of this thread. I ran a 11.7@120 on my E316G on E85 in '08 and knew there a bit left but not as much as you guys have shown.

I sold that car and picked up an auto last year because it was dirt cheap and rust free, it has chewed up E316g on it now, but being an auto and full weight I have no clue what it will do. I plan on keeping it a street car so it will retain heat and A/C and get a decent stereo setup. I usually drive at least 20k per season (MN we only get 6 months of salt free roads) so I want it to be comfy and fun to drive.

With that said do you think a E85 E316G car that is full weight can run a good time? Or will the weight be that much of a hurdle to get over?

Is Nate the only 16G + nitrous car in the running?

The current fastest 16g being ran is Dave (pneumo) which is with no nitrous.. If you are asking if Nate is the only one using nitrous out of the other people then yes you would be correct.

 

[forcefed86]

Hrm, you guys are making me wonder about my pump capacity! I'm running a Bosch 044 external pump off a fender mount 1gal cell with -6 lines. Going up to 1650cc injectors this year (from 950's) and was hoping to run a heavier meth ratio in the cell starting at 50/50 and mixing more meth until I run out of capacity. Maybe I should consider adding a second 044? The fuel cell has a second feed fitting that I have blocked off, and I assume I'd need some sort of Y shaped -6 union to join the two pump outlets together before the rail.

Saw a few used ones for good prices in the classifieds. The larger lines should help you alot. Also running a lower base pressure helps. The fact that you'll be using even more fuel with the n20 And adding more meth I think you will be taxing one 044.

Do you run stages on your car? Using the factory pistons I'd use several small stages instead of one huge shot. Bringing on all that added load progressively makes a huge difference in engine life. You doing direct port?

Nitrous is a blast used it for years on my SBC toys. I ran a cheap 355 cast piston reman (7.8:1) with a 3 stage (50 shot per stage) Kit. Went through 50+ bottles in that thing and then sold it. Never blew it. Filling those bottles gets expensive though!

 

[Kevin Jewer]

I ran a 75 shot on my EVO for a couple years with the stock 16g and a 2g ECU with DSMlink, stock engine with ARP studs, no issues. That car was slow for some reason though, my best in that configuration (full weight, snow tires, etc) was 11.52 at 122 on a low 1.6.

The nitrous uses more fuel, but you need less pump than you would with an equivalent increase in air from a larger turbo, since fuel pressure doesn't go any higher now matter how much nitrous you use. You still need to account for the added demand, but at least it's not compounded by a reduction in flow due to higher pressure.

DSMlink did a great job of saving my ass too when I had a couple minor mishaps. I had a couple cases where bottle pressure shot up in the hot afternoon temps and I ran full quarter miles passes with the WG actuator vac line disconnected, a 75 shot, and 13.5:1 AFRs. I recommend using the nitrous controls in DSMlink if possible. It shuts it off if knock goes over a preset threshold, which is nice.

 

[SS Laser]

The Curt Brown's pass is his Black OLD 03 EVO I think. I can check with him to make sure. No need to count evo's in this just DSM's

Hey Nate write this list up with your best and pneumos best please.
We need to keep this going. I think there are a couple other high/mid ten 16g guys on dsmlink forums. I will make a post over there so they can see this thread also. But this thread is getting cluttered.

We need a sticky in the drag race forum with JUST the UPDATED 14b/16g 1/4 mile times list. Can a Mod do that for us if Nate or pneumo start the list? I would say just keep it to the top 10 or 15 times for the 14b and 16g.

I love killing little turbo's

I was just thinking the same thing, we were going off topic in the 14b thread. It raised a few points about the top 16g times that I hadn't considered before.

Here's the top 6 from the DSMTimes 16G page
here DSMTimes.org - Home

#1 Joseph Bucci 9.975 141.35 6.501 108.65 1.569 EVO16g Yes

#2 Chris Ferruchie 10.262 124.79 6.793 100.37 1.434 EvoIII 16g No

#3 Pat Donaldson 10.332 131.08 6.594 102.57 1.451 FP E3 16g NO

#4 Adam McDougal 10.573 135.01 6.903 105.96 1.651 Twin EVOIII 16G No

#5 Curt Brown 10.597 127.47 6.783 99.22 1.443 Big 16g No

#6 Nathan Crisman 10.800 129.84 6.985 100.43 1.594 EVO3 16G YES

That list needs a few adjustments.
#2 Chris Ferrucchie is a typo, it should read 10.62, not 10.26, so that bumps him out of the #2 spot.
#4 Adam McDougal is running twin 16G on a 3000GT VR-4 which is amazing but it's not a DSM.
That bumps Nathan Chrisman up to the #4 spot. I haven't submitted my latest time yet because I'm not done. I plan to make some changes and go to the track a few more times and see if I can get a better time. For now my best 16G time is 10.57, which puts me at #3. This is encouraging! I think I'll get off the couch and work on my car today.

 

[SBstar]

DSMTuners 1/4 times list can be broken down by turbo, if people would submit their times that would help keep track. But it'd be nice to add it to the first post of this and the 14b thread and have the ability to have it modified/edited as times change.

 

[Nate Crisman]

DSMTuners 1/4 times list can be broken down by turbo, if people would submit their times that would help keep track. But it'd be nice to add it to the first post of this and the 14b thread and have the ability to have it modified/edited as times change.

Unfortunately they have the "big/small 16g" split breaking up the list.


On another note: I'v picked up a excellent condition 2g head, Evo3 intake manifold, and a pretty fresh 6bolt shortblock wtih 2G pistons. I guess Im going to try and source a thin headgasket to bump the compression. Im thinking it's within the realm of possibility to have the car running by the end of march

 

[SBstar]

Get it done! And lets suggest they combine the 16g times instead of seperating big and small eh?

 

[ferruchnuts44]

SSLaser is right, Curt's 10.59 is the Evo time. His black dsm was in the 10.4xx @ like 138 I believe. I'll talk to Curt today and find out exactly what it was to clear things up on that.

Only a couple more monthes till the tracks open! Can't wait!

 

[94TalonTSI1]

Good thread and good timing. I'm currently rocking a 3500lbs 2G AWD Auto with 17" rims and shit for tires, a small 16G, meth and pump 94.

12.3 @ 108

More meth, bigger FMIC and Evo3 Intake this year with the small 16G I'm hoping nets me a mid 11.

 

[hubz91talontsi]

SSLaser is right, Curt's 10.59 is the Evo time. His black dsm was in the 10.4xx @ like 138 I believe. I'll talk to Curt today and find out exactly what it was to clear things up on that.

Only a couple more monthes till the tracks open! Can't wait!

Pat ran a 10.3x at 133 and Curt ran a 10.5x at 134

Edit: Proof that the 10.59 at 137 was done in is 1g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=987gwEsTmoU

 

[Nate Crisman]

Get it done! And lets suggest they combine the 16g times instead of seperating big and small eh?

Other things that suck about the "timeslips" lists on this site:

• each username can only have one timeslip at a time.
• we don't have non-users on that list and there is no way to get around that. It's not a true record of times for that turbo, it's limited to DSMtuners members.
• It doesn't have seperate sort list for with or without nitrous.

so, while Joe Bucci actually holds 3 records and has a top 5 no-nitrous 16g time, he only is shown with his fastest timeslip of 9.975 with 16/nos even through he deserves to be listed as #1 on the 14b list as well.

I went back to the first post on this thread to start playing around with hashing out a quick top 10 list for both records....16g and 16/nos, but the EDIT button is gone now. Is there a time limit or something I'd be happy to keep the 16G lists on this thread in the first post, and Im pretty sure Phil1320 would volunteer to keep the 14b lists updated on the first post of the 14b thread. But if the EDIT button times out, that's not possible. (MODS: can this be changed?)


I really think for the purposes of discussion with records and whatnot, having one of us simply keep a list within a thread would be best as we can make a judgement on things. But the format of linking timeslips and having new times be "user entered" is nice so that we aren't reliant on one guy to constantly update the thread. That's the crutch of DSMtimes.org in that the whole thing depends on one guy, who apparently doesn't have the time/interest to keep it up.

 

[SBstar]

I've made a suggestion to this site to allow more then one timeslip, provided turbo designation changes. Non-members should join! But I understand what you mean and totally agree, but it would help to have a site keep some kind of track of things. Fortunately these two threads (14b and 16g) have really taken off and we're compiling alot of information, this is why it'd be great to be able to have the top ten list on the first post and have the ability to edit it.

 

[pneumo]

OK so Curt did run 10.59 in a DSM. The 16G times list at DSMtimes.org shows he ran 10.59 in his EVO.
DSMTimes.org - Home
I suppose it's because DSMtimes.org will only allow one entry per car so people don't have multiple entries every time they go to the track. Quite a coincidence he ran the same time in a DSM and EVO.

 

[SS Laser]

OK so Curt did run 10.59 in a DSM. The 16G times list at DSMtimes.org shows he ran 10.59 in his EVO.
DSMTimes.org - Home
I suppose it's because DSMtimes.org will only allow one entry per car so people don't have multiple entries every time they go to the track. Quite a coincidence he ran the same time in a DSM and EVO.

Ok Curt just emailed me and his BLACK 1g did run 10.4x at 137.7 for the best time. I have emailed him again to see what the .4? is. So I will update when I have it.

The post on DSMtimes is his Black Evo. So Pat has the ET and Curt has the MPH.

Both cars built by him.

 

[Nate Crisman]

I got two new toys to work on: Evo3 intake manifold and a used NOS direct port kit. Iv got the manifold TB opening ported out, and the intake drilled/tapped for the foggers. Next I need to pick up a 37* flaring tool and bend up new steel lined between the foggers and distribution blocks. Also have to order a few misc fittings and a ton of flare jets.

I bought a 2G head that should hopefully show up tomorrow via ups, which then needs to be ported, decked, and aftermarket valvetrain installed at a machine shop. Then I need to basic assemble and check piston to valve clearance before choosing & ordering a headgasket as I would ideally like to run the thinnest HG possible to increase compression. It all going on a basic 6bolt with stock rods and +.020 2g pistons.

I'll post some more pics once the nitrous kit is complete. Only fitment issue is this will only work on an auto-car as the #1 fogger intersects the clutch master cyl (I'v yet to remove mine since the auto swap)

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[turbo4awd]

I hope i can pull close to 10s outta my evo3 16g my mod list is very close to fonz, but i have a jm fab drag mani. and 650cc instead of 1000cc injectors.

 

[forcefed86]

I got two new toys to work on: Evo3 intake manifold and a used NOS direct port kit. Iv got the manifold TB opening ported out, and the intake drilled/tapped for the foggers. Next I need to pick up a 37* flaring tool and bend up new steel lined between the foggers and distribution blocks. Also have to order a few misc fittings and a ton of flare jets.

I bought a 2G head that should hopefully show up tomorrow via ups, which then needs to be ported, decked, and aftermarket valvetrain installed at a machine shop. Then I need to basic assemble and check piston to valve clearance before choosing & ordering a headgasket as I would ideally like to run the thinnest HG possible to increase compression. It all going on a basic 6bolt with stock rods and +.020 2g pistons.

I'll post some more pics once the nitrous kit is complete. Only fitment issue is this will only work on an auto-car as the #1 fogger intersects the clutch master cyl (I'v yet to remove mine since the auto swap)

Nice! You leaving the original single fogger on as well so you can run stages? Or are you just going for the big shot? Man what a pain to change jets! Are you using 100% methanol this time around? It really helps with keeping the egt's in check and exhaust valve life. Think you could run a larger 10cm exhaust housing? The 7cm housing is gonna kill you with all the added exhaust flow on the nitrous IMO. Some 16g's came with a 10cm correct? So you'd still technically be in the 16g class? Not that it won't still go like hell. good luck!

could always use the $40 ebay adapter for the stock mani...

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[Nate Crisman]

Im planning to remove the single fogger wet setup all together as I have a feeling that fuel/nitrous distribution had a role in my last engine's ugly demise (detonation and lean on cyl #4). I think the car will have plenty of traction to just hit it with 100hp to 150hp right away, all I have to fear is xcase carnage.

I'm working on plumbing/sensor selection to log backpressure and determine when that exhaust choke point happens. I'm betting that with the turbo flat out & 100hp of spray im already way past the point if diminishing returns due to exhaust restriction. But there's only one way to know: log it