The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

[Nate Crisman]

no question E85 is the best fuel for performance vs cost coupled with everyday availability for most people. (unfortunately not me in NJ...I have to pull strings to get ahold of it). It's a no brainer for a streetcar or racecar with goals that aren't 100% efficiency with a limited setup.

 

[Phil1320]

Not bad Nate.

My update. I've accumulated some parts and another 14b, that's about it. No work on the car has been done. Maybe someday. That's it.

 

[Nate Crisman]

I swapped on a stock 2G head w/ oem valvetrain and oem 2g cams. Re-used the metal HG, torqued to 100ft-lb. My original head ate the porcelain from a broken plug (due to detonation).

SAAAAWWWEEEETTTTTTT! starts up nice...idles so smooth, great throttle response. Got it warmed up to 200*F, hot comp test:
#1: 175psi
#2: 180psi
#3: 185psi
#4: 180psi

Houston, we are cleared for takeoff! (saturday or sunday T&T at Island)

This time out Im going to try a better E85 variant fuel, work on the tune, try a different method of launch control, and most likely get the nitrous kit online. Hope for an improvent to about 11.4 -11.5 @ 115 with the nitrous off and "anything in the 10's" with the nitrous on in 2-3-OD gears.

 

[SBstar]

Get it done Nate! Chase em down.

Should have my rear arms back with the toe eliminator kit installed tonight. Hoping that means I can install it in the morning and get an alignment. I'm not calling it, but I might try to make it to the track after that tomorrow, not crossing my fingers yet though.

 

[jjrock5]

Not bad Nate.

My update. I've accumulated some parts and another 14b, that's about it. No work on the car has been done. Maybe someday. That's it.

Phil, you sound like you were about to cut yourself while typing that out. Why so depressed?

 

[Phil1320]

Haha.....pretty funny. Nah, not yet man! No depression, just no real progress. If the car does run this year, I definitely won't get to the track this year....dragstrip or otherwise. It's ok though, I'm having fun just sitting back and watching what some are pulling out of their bag of tricks. Then I'll decide if I want to dig in to mine or not.......

 

[Steve93Talon]

Just got home from the dyno, started off first pull at 281whp. Boost was around 20psi, timing was pretty low, didn't really have a tune on it yet. Ended at 24-ish psi, dropping to 15 by redline, 321whp and 336 ft/lbs. This is on E85. Peak airflow was about 33 lb/min (notice it's a flat line through the pull). Car weighs roughly 2300-2400 without me in it, I'm around 155. Hoping to get it to the track within a week or so now.

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[Nate Crisman]

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Would love to see that log file!!!!

 

[Steve93Talon]

Would love to see that log file!!!!

Attached. Disregard the ugly DA tables, I was just throwing numbers at the cells I needed to, already cleaned up the rest and smoothed it out.

Vid:

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/GlV8zWwScGg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Nate Crisman]

Attached. Disregard the ugly DA tables, I was just throwing numbers at the cells I needed to, already cleaned up the rest and smoothed it out.

Awesome. I just wanted to see what your SD table looked like, ect. Im not disecting your tune at all, just comparing it to mine.

Im hitting the track tomorrow, so I'll have something to report, good or bad.

 

[Steve93Talon]

I'm pretty sure the VE table is untouched. The car has stock head, cams, and intake manifold so no real reason to mess with VE yet. Good luck at the track, can't wait to see what it can do.

 

[Pirrofab]

Steve,
You est your cars weight at 23-2400 lbs? How streetable and how comfortable is it at that point. I feel like I am already down to the nitty gritty to get weight out of the car while still keeping it appealing at car shows and what not. I don't want the gutted honda look. My car weighs 2960 with me in it. Im 150-160 lbs. Please share your secrets. Im on a holset so you don't have to worry about competition... Although my next awd build is going to be a tiny ol' 14b for sure. I miss the cute lil' snail that sat nicely under my exhaust. I do have a bastard 14b sitting in my basement right now patiently waiting manifold for my fiances t-25 to let go. Its running 17 psi for 2 years and hasn't given up and has no shaft play. Its probably the only good t-25 in existance

 

[Steve93Talon]

Steve,
You est your cars weight at 23-2400 lbs? How streetable and how comfortable is it at that point. I feel like I am already down to the nitty gritty to get weight out of the car while still keeping it appealing at car shows and what not. I don't want the gutted honda look. My car weighs 2960 with me in it. Im 150-160 lbs. Please share your secrets. Im on a holset so you don't have to worry about competition... Although my next awd build is going to be a tiny ol' 14b for sure. I miss the cute lil' snail that sat nicely under my exhaust. I do have a bastard 14b sitting in my basement right now patiently waiting manifold for my fiances t-25 to let go. Its running 17 psi for 2 years and hasn't given up and has no shaft play. Its probably the only good t-25 in existance

The car is by no means gutted, it is as streetable as a full weight car. The previous owner weighed in at 2900 lbs with him in it with helmet and everything, so the car was about 2700 at that point. Weight mods were:

Aluminum bumpers
No AC or abs
No sound deadener
No back seats/belts
Corbeau seats with harnesses
Minor metal trimming in hatch area
CF hood

The car has a mild steel 8pt cage that adds about 100lbs too. Since it was last weighed, it's had the heater core removed (20lbs), converted to FWD (300lbs), and I'll be running without the pass. seat at the track (30lbs). I'm also on light 16" wheels and 205s in the back and 30 lb 15s w/slicks up front, so that's a good 40-50 lbs off. The 14b setup is also a bit lighter than a typical big turbo setup. I've also eliminated the north-south bars from the front crossmember, and I've got a tubular crossmember sitting here to throw on, that's about 25 lbs. It's still all stock body except the hood, all glass, plenty more I could do without carving up the chassis.

Looking at the numbers now, I think it may be under 2300. Unfortunately, that's not really light for a FWD. I'm not really chasing the 14b record though, my main goal is to put the car in the 10s on a stock appearing turbo. Once I get what I can out of the 14b, an HTA68 or E16G will be going on. I've also got a 2g head and EVO3 intake manifold waiting to go on, and stock EVO VIII cams I want to try.

 

[Nate Crisman]

I had to put last sunday on hold, due to fuel & pit crew availability on father's day. If the rain holds out, I'm planning to hit Island for Wedesday night T&T where I can run sans-exhaust. If it looks like a go, Im also going to try and stop off at my local scrapyard and get the car on their scale to see what the weight really is. (Im guessing 2450lb car + 250lb driver = 2700lb total)

 

[94TSiAWD]

Good luck Nate!

 

[Pirrofab]

Steve,
Didn't realize you were on a fwd converted set up. Are you using a moded awd trans for strength and gearing or using the fwd? The loss of the awd definatley helps get the power up and shed the weight. Other then that are cars are close in weight mods. I just dont want to lose my seats yet. I have an idea to gut the doors and then use some sort of fabric to cover it up and simulate an actual door panel. I'm also considering getting the canadian seat belts. Just have no idea where to begin to look for them. Unless swapping in 2g seat belts is the easier solution for almost the same weight reduction.

Nate,
Good luck. I'm only in mount pocono and i work in stroudsburg m-f so island isnt far from me. If im free when your at the track let me know if you need a hand. I'll gladly work for ya if u can lend me some secrets and maybe a tune. . Seriously though if you need help let me know and if I can be there I will.

 

[Nate Crisman]

Good luck Nate!

I'll tell ya right now, that 10.84 record is safe. I don't have that much time left in the summer and really need to get started on 16g w/o nitrous tuning in order to be in the ballpark to race DST class at the shootout in August. So this next time out is likely going to be the end of the 14b business and Im nowhere near the record. A 16g is going back on the car when the original ported head/GSX cams go back on after my last "mishap". Most likely only going to be able to run the car one day with the 14b before it comes apart again.

I am going to get the nitrous kit online and hopefully make a couple passes with it on from 2nd gear up. with 125hp shot, it "should" have the potential to take the 14b w/ nitrous record if it goes about 126mph. But who knows, it could pop the re-used HG on the first pass. Will see. But the nitrous record is the only one I see within reach.

 

[habitatguy187]

But who knows, it could pop the re-used HG on the first pass.

How come when I tried to do that it was spitting oil all over...

 

[Phil1320]

i'll tell ya right now, that 10.84 record is safe. I don't have that much time left in the summer and really need to get started on 16g w/o nitrous tuning in order to be in the ballpark to race dst class at the shootout in august. So this next time out is likely going to be the end of the 14b business and im nowhere near the record. A 16g is going back on the car when the original ported head/gsx cams go back on after my last "mishap". Most likely only going to be able to run the car one day with the 14b before it comes apart again.

I am going to get the nitrous kit online and hopefully make a couple passes with it on from 2nd gear up. With 125hp shot, it "should" have the potential to take the 14b w/ nitrous record if it goes about 126mph. But who knows, it could pop the re-used hg on the first pass. Will see. But the nitrous record is the only one i see within reach.

*10.87*

 

[Nate Crisman]

*10.87*

Im at 11.78 on my last pass, which wasn't "full on" by any stretch, but still....there isn't a full second of ET to be gained with tuning regardless of what fuel, shift points, or minor mechanical changes I have available to me. Unless I somehow pick up 6+mph tonight by going back to stock cams & head and working the tune on E85, it's not happening.

My guestimate of likely "best case" performance without the nitrous is something in the 11.3 to 11.5 @ 113-114mph at the car's current weight and part selection on a mid 1.4 launch.

Im also going to try and hit up the local scrapyard to put the car on their scale (accurate to +,- 5lb) maybe thursday. Then I can get some realistic power/weight/ET/MPH benchracing going.

 

[Phil1320]

Just got home from the dyno, started off first pull at 281whp. Boost was around 20psi, timing was pretty low, didn't really have a tune on it yet. Ended at 24-ish psi, dropping to 15 by redline, 321whp and 336 ft/lbs. This is on E85. Peak airflow was about 33 lb/min (notice it's a flat line through the pull). Car weighs roughly 2300-2400 without me in it, I'm around 155. Hoping to get it to the track within a week or so now.

Congrats, nice power!

Im at 11.78 on my last pass, which wasn't "full on" by any stretch, but still....there isn't a full second of ET to be gained with tuning regardless of what fuel, shift points, or minor mechanical changes I have available to me. Unless I somehow pick up 6+mph tonight by going back to stock cams & head and working the tune on E85, it's not happening.

My guestimate of likely "best case" performance without the nitrous is something in the 11.3 to 11.5 @ 113-114mph at the car's current weight and part selection on a mid 1.4 launch.

Im also going to try and hit up the local scrapyard to put the car on their scale (accurate to +,- 5lb) maybe thursday. Then I can get some realistic power/weight/ET/MPH benchracing going.

11.3-11.5 ain't bad........

Good Luck! Did it dry up down there?

 

[Nate Crisman]

I made what might be my last attempt a 14b passes this last weekend, with frustrating results. Ran an 11.87 @ 111 on a 1.53 on regular E85, then the next two passes got messed up by the car pulling through thebrakes & tripping the staging beams while on the converter.

On the 3rd pass I turned on the nitrous kit, on for part of 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gears. The timeslip was blank due to the staging/redlight issue, but should have been about an 11.2 second ET judging from the datalog & in car video.

Ended up with a broken exh valve and no compression on the last pass in middle of 4th gear...too low timing = insane EGT = burned/cracked valve. So the engine is apart now and Im not sure about being able to financially get the car back together and make it to the shootout. Im thinking of skipping it, putting the car back together with a 20g or something and just having fun for a while.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drag-strip/406808-14b-auto-awd-track-results-6-26-11-a.html <---thread with more in-depth info

YouTube - &#x202a;DSMpartout Talon 14b auto 06 26 11.mov&#x202c;&rlm;

 

[Phil1320]

Again, bummer deal man. I have a 2G head that I'm not gonna use if you're interested. Let me know. That is, if you decide you still want to compete at the shootout.

 

[Nate Crisman]

Again, bummer deal man. I have a 2G head that I'm not gonna use if you're interested. Let me know. That is, if you decide you still want to compete at the shootout.

Shootout is likely off for me. Mostly, Im out of cash for racing/repairing and Im also running out of testing time with only 6 weeks to go. Even if I had the cash on hand to fix or replace another cyl head, buy another hg, and put it together, I don't think I'v got the budget to trailer out to Ohio and stay the weekend. Cash is REAL tight over the summer as my wife is a teacher on 10mo pay schedule. So July/Aug I have to pay all our bills with DSMpartout as our only income. This year we bought a house, so you can imagine our bills are about double what they have been and I haven't done enough to keep up.


Not only that, I don't have a good 16g to put on the car to be competitive with 10 second cars, and again, no budget for $250 used E3 turbo. Nor do I have time, effort, drive to tie up all the loose ends even if I had a 16g and could tune it for power to run in the 10's. Still don't have vac pump, which means I haven't been practicing at all on staging/RT. Haven't bothered since I haven't gotten the car to even run clean yet.

Basically, beating up this cyl head is the least of my problems. Im about 2 months behind what I originally envisioned my season would go like. But that's always the case.

I think Im going to fix the car correctly, possibly make another time out with the 14b and try to fix some issues later in the summer.

• get a vac pump to help with the "pulling through brakes & redlight" issue
• get a stronger water pump for the intercooler
• test out the nitrous system off car to make sure it's spraying fuel on all 4
• send injectors to FIC for cleaning/testing
• get a new knock sensor, chase threads in block.
• put on the correct engine mount brackets (might be a knock sensor issue as trans hits the frame)
• new headstuds and new head gasket
• get my first 2g head repaired & decked
• adjustable cam gears going on this time too (found a set for $50!)
• car needs alignment and ride height set correctly.

Might try running it on dyno too to confirm wideband is accurate and get some tuning in without dealing with knock sensor activity that starts while stalling up the converter and doesn't go away through run.


Once it's together

 

[Phil1320]

Ok man, just figured I'd offer it to you first. Good luck.