The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

[94TSiAWD]

Nice!

 

[Pirrofab]

Its stinks its not going to be ready this season but at the same time. its nice to see progress though. Seems like just a few short weeks ago it sounded like the car wasn't even looked at. I'm very curious to know what the difference in the 14b drag and 14b road race turbos are. Its not like they made upgrades for a 14b other then some homemade porting and 16g exhaust housing. Wouldn't they be equally built. Just the road race turbo would be ran at a lower boost level to have iut survive a bit longer.


Slightly off topic.- has anyone thought of extrude honing a compressor cover to get more out of it or would it be a waste. Also, when porting a 14b compressor inlet. Do you enlarge the inlet like a cone shape up to the blades or just hog it out through out the compressor inlet?

 

[fwdmaster]

This following pics should answer some above questions and at the same time reinforce the fact that I will not run this year:

Phil1320, whats the difference between your 14b drag turbo compared to your 14b road race turbo,looks interesting?

 

[pneumo]

Slightly off topic.- has anyone thought of extrude honing a compressor cover to get more out of it or would it be a waste. Also, when porting a 14b compressor inlet. Do you enlarge the inlet like a cone shape up to the blades or just hog it out through out the compressor inlet?

I thought about extrude honing a compressor housing. It sounds like a good idea, but expensive. Instead I just glued a small piece of sandpaper to the eraser on a pencil and rubbed away the casting roughness inside the comp housing. I don't know if it helped, but it didn't seem to hurt, and all it cost was the price of a pencil and a few inches of sandpaper.

I prefer a velocity stack shape on the compressor inlet. It's a good shape when used with intake pipes over 2.5" diameter.

 

[Phil1320]

Thought I'd join in on this. With current mods and two other that I have done. Which are DSMchips Eprom. With stutter box and NLTS. Also its tuned or 11:1 AFR. And a snow performance water/meth kit. running the smallest nozzle in the kit. With all that, High humidity and heat I ran a 13.62 at 99.80 with a 1.9 60ft

Not bad at all. A little touch up on the 60 ft and you should be low 13's....

I overran the evo 560's at 21 psi with some 110 in the tank. Hit 110% inj. duty cycles. Some of it was tuning, but yes it's possible to overrun them with the 14b.

On another note, my transfer case seized up today. Fortunately I wasn't flying down the road, I had slowed to a slight crawl and started feeling like it was jerking, then it sudddenly just stopped and wouldn't even move. Crawled under, it appears that my seal wore out and all my fluid leaked out. Got home on a flatbed. Pulled the T-case out and there is a nice crack down the side and it's dry inside. Fluid was fresh approximately a thousand miles ago and what is left is seriously dark brown (redline shockproof). Fortunately I have a spare one laying around but I'm ordering all new seals first. Drained the trans too just in case but the fluid looks as good as the day I poured it in a year ago.

Guess I'm more than overrunning my 550's then huh?

Talk about losing motivation! Last week it rained, so I figured I'd hit the track this Friday. Perfect weather. Check Atco's schedule today and there's an event Fri-Sun. So it looks like I'll be waiting another week to run.

It'll come man......

Nice!

Thanks!?

Its stinks its not going to be ready this season but at the same time. its nice to see progress though. Seems like just a few short weeks ago it sounded like the car wasn't even looked at. I'm very curious to know what the difference in the 14b drag and 14b road race turbos are. Its not like they made upgrades for a 14b other then some homemade porting and 16g exhaust housing. Wouldn't they be equally built. Just the road race turbo would be ran at a lower boost level to have iut survive a bit longer.


Slightly off topic.- has anyone thought of extrude honing a compressor cover to get more out of it or would it be a waste. Also, when porting a 14b compressor inlet. Do you enlarge the inlet like a cone shape up to the blades or just hog it out through out the compressor inlet?

Yeah it is a bummer. Thanks....the project is still in motion at least. Honestly though, there has been no physical work on the car in months. For one, my DRAG 14b has a pretty good clip on the turbine wheel that I wouldn't want in a road race application. Yes, I will only be running max of 16 psi or so when road racing. That will be plenty.....actually enough speed to be scary at some tracks.

As far as extrudehone.......I'm contemplating doing my intake, however, I think the compressor housing would be a waste for what it would cost.

Phil1320, whats the difference between your 14b drag turbo compared to your 14b road race turbo,looks interesting?

^^^ As stated above, the main difference is the clip on the turbine wheel. There is some work to both compressor housings however porting of the outlet is NOT part of the equation. From my sources, there is nothing at all to be gained by porting the comp. outlet. So, it's not done. Both turbos are fully rebuilt with zero miles. Should be interesting. And as mentioned who knows how long ago, I do have a 7cm E3 turbine housing that is ported, already has the flapper removed, and welding done. Just have to polish it and the turbo stuff is done.

 

[Arthris]

Not bad at all. A little touch up on the 60 ft and you should be low 13's....



Guess I'm more than overrunning my 550's then huh?



It'll come man......



Thanks!?



Yeah it is a bummer. Thanks....the project is still in motion at least. Honestly though, there has been no physical work on the car in months. For one, my DRAG 14b has a pretty good clip on the turbine wheel that I wouldn't want in a road race application. Yes, I will only be running max of 16 psi or so when road racing. That will be plenty.....actually enough speed to be scary at some tracks.

As far as extrudehone.......I'm contemplating doing my intake, however, I think the compressor housing would be a waste for what it would cost.



^^^ As stated above, the main difference is the clip on the turbine wheel. There is some work to both compressor housings however porting of the outlet is NOT part of the equation. From my sources, there is nothing at all to be gained by porting the comp. outlet. So, it's not done. Both turbos are fully rebuilt with zero miles. Should be interesting. And as mentioned who knows how long ago, I do have a 7cm E3 turbine housing that is ported, already has the flapper removed, and welding done. Just have to polish it and the turbo stuff is done.

Thanks, I ran quicker this past friday. On stock Eprom. Ran a 13.42

 

[Phil1320]

Thanks, I ran quicker this past friday. On stock Eprom. Ran a 13.42

There you go...just keep chipping away

 

[Arthris]

There you go...just keep chipping away

Every time I go i run a lill quicker. I seem to not be able to run a quicker 60. May need to loose some weight

 

[1SloEvo]

Every time I go i run a lill quicker. I seem to not be able to run a quicker 60. May need to loose some weight

Main thing is to keep getting in seat time. The 60' times will drop eventually, then you'll start seeing your ET drop even more!

 

[Pirrofab]

Nothing to gain by porting a compressor outlet on a 14b? Wow that has me left wondering then. I would think it would increase efficency a little bit. Isn't that also why they offer larger j-pipes compared to the dinky stock one. I would think it would help at the higher boost levels. As long as it doesn't hurt the overall performance I may port mine anyway just because i'd feel better doing it knowing my exhaust housing and 02 housing would be modified for extra flow. So why not the compressor.

Besides any material removed is weight reduction so its gotta help one way or another

 

[Phil1320]

Main thing is to keep getting in seat time. The 60' times will drop eventually, then you'll start seeing your ET drop even more!

For sure.

Nothing to gain by porting a compressor outlet on a 14b? Wow that has me left wondering then. I would think it would increase efficency a little bit. Isn't that also why they offer larger j-pipes compared to the dinky stock one. I would think it would help at the higher boost levels. As long as it doesn't hurt the overall performance I may port mine anyway just because i'd feel better doing it knowing my exhaust housing and 02 housing would be modified for extra flow. So why not the compressor.

Besides any material removed is weight reduction so its gotta help one way or another

yep....the OUTLET........

 

[Steve93Talon]

Nothing to gain by porting a compressor outlet on a 14b? Wow that has me left wondering then. I would think it would increase efficency a little bit. Isn't that also why they offer larger j-pipes compared to the dinky stock one.

Can't argue with mid 10s on a stock j-pipe, I don't think he's done any porting to the compressor side either.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drag-strip/401214-fp68hta-10-62-125-a.html

 

[Phil1320]

Point of the matter is that BIGGER is NOT always BETTER.......unless of course you are a Dodge Viper fan....

Here's a close-up of cylinder #4....this is the original headgasket as the engine has never been apart until now. I guess my thought that after all the hard running, and being that it's 21 years old it was time to pull the head, was the correct thought. On the other pic I posted you can see between #1 & #2 there is a little bit of deviation in the gasket. Here of course, it's a bit more pronounced between #3 and #4.

I run this Dejon Elbow. Was considering running a downdraft elbow, but haven't heard anything on that from pneumo and that was months back. Either way, this thing works as good as any and meets the silcone elbow perfectly.

 

[Pirrofab]

Phil, That headgasket looks like it was ready to start showing its age and abuse its been through. Im sure the arp studs have helped keep it together this long. My thoughts for porting the compressor outlet also go along the same thoughts of larger intercooler piping and throttle bodies. Has there ever been any airflow research done on these compressor housings. I know it doesn't make sense to put a huge bbk throttle body on a 14b build and a drag version smim but I'm just stuck on enlarging it. Porting turbine housings has proved to make significant differences. I just can't put it in my head why porting the compressor outlet wouldn't help. As I sit here and try to think it out maybe Im using the wrong term. Maybe Porting out the compressor outlet is a bit drastic. Maybe I should explain it as gasket matching to the j-pipe. Would this be more correct? Or I am thinking to much into it being as it would be a small "pipe" flowing into a larger "pipe" instead of a large "pipe" flowing into a small "pipe" which would have a step down that would be recommended to smooth out or taper down to decrease turbulence.
Get what I'm saying or did I just really confuse everyone?

 

[Phil1320]

Phil, That headgasket looks like it was ready to start showing its age and abuse its been through. Im sure the arp studs have helped keep it together this long. My thoughts for porting the compressor outlet also go along the same thoughts of larger intercooler piping and throttle bodies. Has there ever been any airflow research done on these compressor housings. I know it doesn't make sense to put a huge bbk throttle body on a 14b build and a drag version smim but I'm just stuck on enlarging it. Porting turbine housings has proved to make significant differences. I just can't put it in my head why porting the compressor outlet wouldn't help. As I sit here and try to think it out maybe Im using the wrong term. Maybe Porting out the compressor outlet is a bit drastic. Maybe I should explain it as gasket matching to the j-pipe. Would this be more correct? Or I am thinking to much into it being as it would be a small "pipe" flowing into a larger "pipe" instead of a large "pipe" flowing into a small "pipe" which would have a step down that would be recommended to smooth out or taper down to decrease turbulence.
Get what I'm saying or did I just really confuse everyone?

Yep, it was definitely time to pull the engine apart and inspect. I have ARP studs for when it goes back together.....the original head bolts were in there. Remember---- my engine was 100% bone stock original. Minus valve cover gaskets, timing belt, etc. All internal hard parts were untouched until now.

Pretty much....the comp. outlet is such a small distance travelled. Not to mention, we all open up the I/C pipes, lots of times larger than we need to. IMHO, at least with my set up, there is no gain from stock partial rubber piping when going to all 2.25" or whatever. If you need it to match or accomodate a larger I/C it makes sense, and that's what I did. Everyone has their own path. Do whatever you like, or what the people you know say works. I've tested out ALOT of things that didn't add anything. Early on I swapped to a 2.25" upper I/C pipe, with nothing to show for it, I tossed the stock rubber pipe and 1G elbow back on the car.

Again, in my experience, beside the normal MAF mods, the 14b is all about exhaust mods and adding boost. I definitely did some little tricks to some of the intake pieces, but all using stock pieces. 90% of the work on my car was exhaust related.

 

[Pirrofab]

Thanks Phil, I really thought u had arp studs in the car. Pulled the old head bolts one by one and installed the arps. I must be confused with another dsm. Now that Im thinking about it I think STM has done that one a few evos and maybe even corys record holding 2g 7 bolt. I guess since the actual airflow on a 14b is so minimal to compared to other turbos thats why it doesn't make sense. I know you say u didn't notice any gains as far as power goes from when you changed piping but what about the affects of temperature? did the piping have any more or less heat soak to it from the rubber to aluminum? has anyone tried using any sort of heat wrap or insulation on the piping to keep engine bay temps away. I know we wrap exhaust housings and downpipes to keep the heat in to keep the airflow up but again what about on the compressor side of the system? it would make sense to wrap it to keep a 150+ engine bay temp away from a intercooler pipe after the intercooler that just dropped the charge temp down to close to ambient on a 70-80 degree day. Isnt that also why some guys move there maf to pick up colder air in in the fender well ion the old stock intercooler position?

 

[habitatguy187]

has anyone tried using any sort of heat wrap or insulation on the piping to keep engine bay temps away.

Like this?

 

[Phil1320]

Thanks Phil, I really thought u had arp studs in the car. Pulled the old head bolts one by one and installed the arps. I must be confused with another dsm. Now that Im thinking about it I think STM has done that one a few evos and maybe even corys record holding 2g 7 bolt. I guess since the actual airflow on a 14b is so minimal to compared to other turbos thats why it doesn't make sense. I know you say u didn't notice any gains as far as power goes from when you changed piping but what about the affects of temperature? did the piping have any more or less heat soak to it from the rubber to aluminum? has anyone tried using any sort of heat wrap or insulation on the piping to keep engine bay temps away. I know we wrap exhaust housings and downpipes to keep the heat in to keep the airflow up but again what about on the compressor side of the system? it would make sense to wrap it to keep a 150+ engine bay temp away from a intercooler pipe after the intercooler that just dropped the charge temp down to close to ambient on a 70-80 degree day. Isnt that also why some guys move there maf to pick up colder air in in the fender well ion the old stock intercooler position?

Never noticed any temp differences. However, old rubber piping can obviously expand with heat and high boost. So, to cure that, hard pipes make sense. If you look at my pic above of my J pipe, you can see the adhesive still on it from my heat wrap. I did that, my lower I/C pipe, and my intake pipe. It all helps in some way I'm sure.

I've always run my air filter in the stock location, not down in the fender well. I like it as close to the turbo as possible, especially while still running a MAF sensor. I have no plans to run speed density, though many have said the MAF is a significant restriction. I don't see it that way. May as well not run a filter either at that point. Another thing I wouldn't try.

 

[habitatguy187]

If you look at my pic above of my J pipe, you can see the adhesive still on it from my heat wrap. I did that, my lower I/C pipe, and my intake pipe. It all helps in some way I'm sure.

The picture in the link is of heat tape, which is different from heat wrap. Heat tape deflects the heat from the IC pipe, whereas the heat wrap will hold heat in (once the pipes get hot)

 

[Phil1320]

The picture in the link is of heat tape, which is different from heat wrap. Heat tape deflects the heat from the IC pipe, whereas the heat wrap will hold heat in (once the pipes get hot)

Ummmmm.....ok? That is HEAT TAPE adhesive on my J pipe. I know what the purposes are for....I've been around a while. WTF

 

[habitatguy187]

Ummmmm.....ok? That is HEAT TAPE adhesive on my J pipe. I know what the purposes are for....I've been around a while. WTF

I didn't say anything about your picture, nor did I quote it.

You've been around awhile, yeah we know, trust me. You're always eager to talk about yourself.

 

[Phil1320]

I didn't say anything about your picture, nor did I quote it.

You've been around awhile, yeah we know, trust me. You're always eager to talk about yourself.

Hey, thanks for pointing that out!

Obviously, you have some type of problem with me to post up like that.

Noone is forcing you to come up here.

Glad your true colors came out though.

 

[Pirrofab]

Phil this is why I like picking your brain. I knew there was somthing different between the heat wrap and heat tape just wasn't quite sure. What other little tips and tricks do you have? Have you personally tried the homemade rear lower control arms yet to further reduce weight? Its something else I've been considering but the angle of the ball joint with the homemade lower arms just looks to severe where as the factory arms are more straight up and down.

Brad- Comments like that should either be left to yourself or be taken to pms. This thread doesn't need it and neither does the forum. Take the crap elsewhere.

 

[SBstar]

I'm glad a few of us have actually made it to the track this year. Once again all those "crazy out there" setups have yet to show up and do anything, in fact they've even dissapeared from this thread yet again. I guess maybe, just maybe, we can include Nate in there with the out there setups and say one of them at least did something. But, I don't think his setup really fits with that crowd being stock motor stuff and all.

I finally ordered my parts for my t-case. I've been crazy busy with work, training for the last 10 days straight. Plus it's been mid 90's with 90+% humidity so racing is out of the question anyways. I do want to get out at least once before the shootout racing though.

 

[91stocker]

I
Plus it's been mid 90's with 90+% humidity so racing is out of the question anyways.

I hear ya on that. Its been just miserable here. Fixed a section of hacked harness and wired in some factory plugs where the previous owned had hacked them off. Thats about all i've accomplished in the last few days haha.

I do want to get out at least once before the shootout racing though.

Same here, took the car out to do some wot pulls in a closed course in mexico and had a brake line blow out. That was a little more then sketchy...

But overall everything is getting buttoned up and long as it holds together i should be hitting the track in the next few days.