The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

[Phil1320]

Trying to keep this thread alive until we have some numbers. My car is ready to go minus the alignment. I've decided to save up a few bucks and get the adjustable rear control arms so I can dial in a proper alignment. I'm looking at the 3000gt units as people seem to be having great luck with them, and they're cheaper and have a better track record then the ingalls units. As far as the alignment a little research suggests stock alignment for the front and putting the rear around 0 camber. Does this sound correct to everyone or are there different suggestions? I'm planning on taking my old shell to the scrap yard this weekend so I'm hoping to have the cash for the rears.

not sure what anyone else does but I run my rear ingalls arms as far positive as they will go.....also, I've never aligned my car in all the 14+ years I've had it.....not on an alignment rack anyway....all by measuring and eyeing it...ha...

 

[97eclipseNT]

I've Been trying to go to the track for a few weeks now. It's been rained out two weeks in a row. I'm Hoping to get low 12s.

Since last year (went 12.85 @ 107 with snow tires) i've added better all season tires, HKS272s and E85 so we'll see. I'm still full weight for the most part and on street tires. May 7th is my next chance.

I agree with Phil on the alignment. I would think you would want slightly positive camber in the rear so when it squats you have as close to zero camber as possible. That's just an assumption though.

 

[SBstar]

I found where there was some alignment discussion earlier in this thread. Seems some are saying a half degree or so of positive camber in the rear is good. I might go with that, also seen where they suggest 0 camber in the front as there is very little "squat" in the front obviously so why set it positive at all. Makes sense to me!

 

[Nate Crisman]

I found where there was some alignment discussion earlier in this thread. Seems some are saying a half degree or so of positive camber in the rear is good. I might go with that, also seen where they suggest 0 camber in the front as there is very little "squat" in the front obviously so why set it positive at all. Makes sense to me!

Set the front to exactly 0 toe and 0 camber and limit strap the front suspension so it can't move and then you don't have to worry about the alignment changing.

 

[SBstar]

I'll have to pull up those posts about your limiting straps there Nate. Thanks for the recommendation.

 

[pneumo]

One of the reasons some people have trouble with the Ingalls rear arms is because the action of the trailing arm makes the control arms twist a little as the suspension goes up and down. If the adjustment on the arm is tightened with the ball joint already twisted, then it can't twist when the suspension moves. So just make sure the ball joint is in the middle of the range when you lock down the adjustment.

 

[Nate Crisman]

Just for "search/info" purposes since this thread has so much weight loss info:

Two identical hatches both with no wiring, no wing, no wiper assembly, no lights, no brackets, no latch.
OEM 1G hatch w/ glass: 46lb
OEM 1G hatch w/ lexan: 33lb

The lexan rear hatch window is 1/8" thick with two thin top/bottom aluminum braces. silicone sealing the edges for water tightness and rivets holding it down. Lexan hatch window saves 13lb.

Pic of the hatch before I pulled it off the original car:

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remember, absolute value isn't as much of a concern as the difference between the two parts on the same scale. I know pneumo said his stock hatch as 43lb on his scale, my scale says 46lb. He also said his fiberglass hatch/lexan window saved 18lb vs stock.

On a side note...my yellow car has a 92-94 style eclipse GSX wing...the center part is 7.6lb, while the 92-94 Talon TSI wing center section is only 3.4lb. Significant weight difference between the two style wings both from size and material. The smaller 1gb Talon wing seems to be a thin "blown" plastic while the larger 1gb eclipse wing is more like fiberglass sheet. I'll weight the side pieces today and report the difference. Might be upwards of 50% reduction in weight to run the talon wing vs eclipse!

 

[Pirrofab]

I know this is more for athe actual weight losd thread as oppose to the 14b but I went to the local scrapyard with some cast iron to be thrown out and decided to take the talon in its "race ready condition" with 3/4 tank of fuel to unload the scrap and to get a weight for the car at the same time. I weigh 160lbs and my car went across the scales at 2960lbs after the scrap was unloaded. To acheive this weight I have removed.
keep in mind this car is a 90 TSI that came from the factory with out abs or sunroof. Also has the lighter transfercase from the factory.
ALL power stewering. (manual rack) ALL a/c components including evaporator core. Glove box, knee bolster under steering column. All heatshields and gask tank sheild. carpet padding, sound deadening except for trunk, Spare tire jack and tools, triunk carpet. Rear hatch plastic. Installed carbon fiber hood, Installed Rota slipstream wheels (16x7) Removed floor mats, Tractor battery mounted on subframe, Removed Carbon canister, Removed all emissions sensors and hoses, Removed both "north/South" front subframe bars" Rear speakers and brackets removed. Rear wiper removed. Misc brackets under hood and dashboard. Some of the thick padding under the dash has been removed and the padding along the firewall has been removed. If I can think of anything else I will update this but this is all I can think of.

EDIT: Completly forgot the front and rear crash beams are gone and I do already have the jm fab front support. Sorry for forgetting that. The car is also missing the factory sideskirts at the moment but they will be going back on as the car just doesn't look right without them. Also the car has a front bumper from a 1ga non turbo. If that makes a weight difference I am not sure. It is also cut and raised in the middle about 2 inches for extra airflow. Car still has the small brakes as well. Also still retains full power doors and rear seats and seat belts. I tried to drop as much weight as possible while still being able to hide it.

 

[1SloEvo]

Remove the front and rear crash bar and you'll save another 50lb. You'll need a front support bumper like the one JMF makes, but it only adds 2 lb...after removing a bar that weighs around 30lb.

 

[Pirrofab]

Remove the front and rear crash bar and you'll save another 50lb. You'll need a front support bumper like the one JMF makes, but it only adds 2 lb...after removing a bar that weighs around 30lb.

Yea Last night I was thinking to myself that I was forgetting what I removed and then I reliazed I Forgot the crash beams. It was the easiest 50lbs to remove out of the car besides the 25 or 30 lbs I got from removing the north-south bars.

 

[1SloEvo]

Just out of curiosity, is it worthwhile to post up here in the thread if I do an unusual 4G swap but still have the 14b on it for drag racing? basically, I'm hoping in the next month or 2 to start prepping to swap a 4G from a 92 FWD eclipse into an 86 Mustang notchback that has a V6...but I plan to stay with the 14b. The car is actually sub 2800lb with the v6 in it. Although the motor from the 4 cylinder is likely to be lighter, I don't expect to lose very much weight after carrying over an intercooler with piping. Just wondering if posting up here is worthwhile since this is the 14b drag thread or if I should just start my own thread when that time comes.

 

[SBstar]

I think it'd be worth posting, might also start your own thread too though. Although it wouldn't fit the "record" talk, it does fit in with 14b drag racing talk.

My front O2 threw a code last night, fortunately I have a spare laying around. Other then that waiting on the rear control arms for an alignment and she's good to go!

 

[97eclipseNT]

Went to the track tonight. Prep was pretty horrible and I couldn't 60' no matter what I did. Still had a new personal best though. 12.50 @ 109.3. Still have an unported 6cm housing and unported 2g manifold. The car is still pretty much full weight minus exhaust. My next time out will hopefully be at norwalk at the buschur sport compact shootout at the end of may. If i'm lucky i'll switch out my act 2100 for a 2600 and hopefully get my hands on a 7cm housing.

YouTube - 14b 2g DSM 12.50 @ 109

 

[TURBO1991TSI]

what is the highest hp on record for a stock 14b

 

[SBstar]

That's great for a 1.8 60ft. Knock that down into the 1.6's and you'll be eating up the times! Good work.

 

[1SloEvo]

what is the highest hp on record for a stock 14b

Pneumo made like 324awhp on a Mustang Dyno. That's the highest I have seen or heard of personally. Not saying this is the highest, but the highest I have seen.

 

[97eclipseNT]

Thanks, and ya the 60' times were killing me. Hopefully i'll have better luck next time. I upped my 2 step, lowered my 2step, messed with tire pressure, but nothing really helped. I can usually do mid 1.7's pretty easily.

 

[Nate Crisman]

Looks like I might be starting out the year with a 14b now, as this is what I found today while taking the comp housing off my 16g in order to clock the housing for ic pipe fitment:

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So I might be back in the 14b game for a while as I hunt another E3 turbo down.

Iv got a thread with details of the build for 2011 http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drag-strip/398738-prep-work-chasing-16g-records.html Pretty much going to be everything shown in that thread but with the 14b turbo for a few weeks. Should be interesting at least, hopefully the 14b will hold out long enough to at least knock off the w/nitrous record.

 

[pneumo]

Whoa, groovy pic Nate!
Good luck with the 14b!

 

[Nate Crisman]

Whoa, groovy pic Nate!
Good luck with the 14b!

Eh...this really threw a monkey wrench in my plans, as I had my head totally wrapped around running the E3 16g and getting the car setup and tuned to race DST in august at the shootout. It's really not a huge deal to swap the cartridge, more that my plans to test E85 vs Meth, then intercooler vs hotpipe, and nitrous vs no nitrous.....all that "testing" is kinda on hold.

On the other hand, with a fresh 14b in a 2400lb automatic car, I think Iv got a decent shot at beating project goodwill. So long as I can get it done and over with in a few weeks and be back on the "big" turbo by july so I have time to setup for the shootout, it'll all work out.

Nitrous kit might get some use right away now too!

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Well this thread just got interesting again

 

[SBstar]

That's some great news! Not that the 16g looks like that. But you're going to have to run the 14b!

I've decided since my toe eccentric bolts are seized and I can't get an alignment, to install a toe eliminator kit along with new eccentric bolts. Parts should be here next week and I should have it done. Hopefully that'll be the last of this suspension upgrade haha! Then it'll be off to the track, about a month later then I had planned.

 

[1SloEvo]

On the other hand, with a fresh 14b in a 2400lb automatic car, I think Iv got a decent shot at beating project goodwill.

Not saying it's impossible or anything, but I would think you would need the car to be a bit lighter to take out project goodwill unless you're planning a relative decent shot of nitrous. I only say this due to the weight of his car when he made his record pass was quite a bit less.

 

[SBstar]

I would assume he's meaning with nitrous. Joe only used a small shot, where I think Nate is going to go a little bigger

That's probably the one record I could see falling this year if Nate sticks with the 14b long enough. The w/out nitrous record probably isn't going anywhere.

 

[sprmotohooligan]

I went to the 1/4 for the first time ever on Friday night. My goal was to hit mid 13's, the reason behind it is two fold.

1. I know the car can do it running 19-20 psi on 93 octane, I wanted to see if I had the driving skills to match.

2. To shut up all the stupid VW fan boi's I know with their "fastest, coolest, best car in the world" APR stage II GTI's who run high 14's and don't know how to actually make a car faster; just throw lots and lots of $$ at it

I managed to lay down a best pass of 13.59 at ~101 mph with a 1.91 60'. I was hoping to be doing 1.8 60's, but I don't think it was that bad considering having only launching the car twice before going to the track, still having the spare tire, and somehow getting my 6'4" frame with a helmet in that tiny cockpit

I need to track down some random silent boost leaks I have b/c my tune was terribly inconsistent all night, I had knock some runs, then none others etc etc... My overall goal with this car is to hit 12's before I even think about swapping out the turbo to something bigger. I need to add less weight and get some of those driver mods all you fast guys have.


I'll post up my time slip in a few days.


Good luck in this season boys.