The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

[1SloEvo]

That would also take a rather long harness. If you end up running fast enough, you will need a roll bar at a minimum anyway...why not just add it now and have it made with a harness bar attachment?

 

[1qkfwd]

Harness bar would be the best option. I dont think I would trust mounting it anywhere else.

I got my rear skinnies in today and got them all mounted up. I dropped 34 lbs alone on just the wheel tire swap. So that 1976 with just that is now 1942 and a total race weight of about 2132 with a 6 point cage.

Im putting in as much work as I can to get the car to the track next saturday with the 14B. I hit a huge snag with the fwd trans as from some reason the halfshaft will not bolt up once its all the way in the diff. Its as if the trans or diff is to far towards the drivers side of the car. I tried 3 different shafts and same thing. Looks like Ill be going with my crappy option and swapping back over to my plagued awd trans but with a new clutch and not the twin disc. Maybe ill get lucky and be able to hit 4th one time saturday. Either way this car has to hit the track before year end.

 

[Bud92gsx]

Should I go external WG, using a 14b?

The stock WG is gonna bleed off boost right..And the external will definatly help keep x psi till redline.

 

[Phil1320]

Harness bar would be the best option. I dont think I would trust mounting it anywhere else.

I got my rear skinnies in today and got them all mounted up. I dropped 34 lbs alone on just the wheel tire swap. So that 1976 with just that is now 1942 and a total race weight of about 2132 with a 6 point cage.

Im putting in as much work as I can to get the car to the track next saturday with the 14B. I hit a huge snag with the fwd trans as from some reason the halfshaft will not bolt up once its all the way in the diff. Its as if the trans or diff is to far towards the drivers side of the car. I tried 3 different shafts and same thing. Looks like Ill be going with my crappy option and swapping back over to my plagued awd trans but with a new clutch and not the twin disc. Maybe ill get lucky and be able to hit 4th one time saturday. Either way this car has to hit the track before year end.

Very nice. Best of luck at the strip.

Should I go external WG, using a 14b?

The stock WG is gonna bleed off boost right..And the external will definatly help keep x psi till redline.

I think running an external off the 02 is a great mod.

 

[1SloEvo]

I am going to be running a 21psi internal wga...the external should definitely be more consistent.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

I would venture to assume the strut tower would be a solid enough mounting point, considering the kind of load/abuse it takes being a suspension mounting point. The only issue I see with it is the angle is not straight back. I would have to look at the rule book to see if that would be an issue with a harness.

It's not THAT far off of the center of the front seat since the strut tower sticks out towards the middle of the car:

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Is there any rule about how straight the harness strap has to be?

That would also take a rather long harness. If you end up running fast enough, you will need a roll bar at a minimum anyway...why not just add it now and have it made with a harness bar attachment?

I can't do a cage now. Cost and weight. I'm going to be spending plenty on this as it is without adding more stuff to the list.

Harness bar would be the best option. I dont think I would trust mounting it anywhere else.

I got my rear skinnies in today and got them all mounted up. I dropped 34 lbs alone on just the wheel tire swap. So that 1976 with just that is now 1942 and a total race weight of about 2132 with a 6 point cage.

Would a rear strut bar qualify as a harness bar? Very impressive weight!

Should I go external WG, using a 14b?

I have an external wastegate on mine. I actually switched to it to help lower the wastegate pressure for my BBG setup in 1st and 2nd gear.

 

[1qkfwd]

Would a rear strut bar qualify as a harness bar? Very impressive weight!

That is a ways back there. I dont think it would be that hard to make a bar where the stock seat belts attach on the pillars themselves. I think it would sit at the right height to.

Im really curious to see what the real weight is again once I get the trans and stuff back in the car. I have taken out all the extra brackets and stuff inside the car. Spent a little time with a spot weld driller. Plus the whole turbo combo is lighter. I wouldnt be surprised if race weight is under 2100lbs. Eventually I plan to make a chromoly rear straight axle. I know the factory one weighs a freakin ton. But thats way later down the road.

 

[Bud92gsx]

It's not THAT far off of the center of the front seat since the strut tower sticks out towards the middle of the car:

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Is there any rule about how straight the harness strap has to be?


I can't do a cage now. Cost and weight. I'm going to be spending plenty on this as it is without adding more stuff to the list.


Would a rear strut bar qualify as a harness bar? Very impressive weight!


I have an external wastegate on mine. I actually switched to it to help lower the wastegate pressure for my BBG setup in 1st and 2nd gear.

I'm been thinking external for a while..And I recently came across a new PR 38mm o2 housing, for 75 off new price..No WG tho..It had the dump tube but thats fine.

And being awd..I don't need to limit boost..But keep boost instead of it bleeding off at high rpm..As a internal would do.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

How much boost are you running Bud? How much is it falling off?

 

[SBstar]

I think an external wastegate is always better. With that said as far as I know 4 of the current top 5 still were on the stock internal gate.

Justin, can't wait to see how you do. It'll be nice to see a serious fwd gunning with the 14b. Can't wait until next year as we'll have Nate too!

 

[1qkfwd]

As for the wastegate talk, if your running higher levels your gonna want the smallest gate you can run. Best bet is gonna be a really tight stock style gate. Shimming is what I would do. The bigger external gates are gonna be good if you plan on controling lower boost levels. I plan on running a shimmed gate and deal with the mild spike I get.

Im very excited about this Shane. Im gonna load up my timing maps that we used here for our 16g car as a baseline. It took me awhile to get those dialed in and they are alot closer to what ill be running compared to the stock maps. So really all I will need to do is dial in my boost and make fine adjustments. Then hope I dont have any more drivetrain issues.

 

[Bud92gsx]

How much boost are you running Bud? How much is it falling off?

No idea yet..But next year I'm gonna try maxing the 14b out..Shouldn't an external help with maintaining boost..

I have a few new stuff to go on in the spring.

 

[1SloEvo]

The problem with trying to 'maintain' a higher amount of boost on a small turbo is that you basically just start running an extremely hot hair dryer. It's better that it falls of a bit. You would probably make less power due to the heat than you would with a cooler, more dense charge even though it's less air!

 

[Kevin Jewer]

There are two reasons boost will fall off. The first is the compresor being maxed out and unable to move enough air to keep boost up against the consumption of the engine, which drives back pressure way up. There's nothing you can do about this. The better the motor flows, the lower the boost will be (and that's a good thing for several reasons). The other reason is the WG blowing open. This one you can do something about, but you may not want to. The back pressure blowing it open comes from problem number one. Log backpressure to determine if it's worth pushing any harder. If you can take more back pressure, WG mods will help. Otherwise, it's a waste of time and you just risk a thrust failure, or sending a turbine wheel down range.

 

[SBstar]

I agree Kevin, most that have allowed the 14b to spike to it's fullest have destroyed the turbo quite quickly. There seems to.be little to no.advantage to making it spike that high, but several disadvantages such as the heat and the health of your turbo. The only way there will be a benefit is with a perfectly efficient ic setup that can dissipate the heat and a couple spare turbos laying around for when it goes.

 

[Phil1320]

Yeeeaaaah. I think I'll just stick to regulating boost. I don't have a shelf full of turbos at my disposal and if it were to cost me a tenth either way, so be it. Also, if you're tuning for the spike, run a great number, then wreck the turbo, well, it's like a one hit wonder.

 

[1SloEvo]

I agree with you Phil. That one hit wonder isn't enough for me. I like when people are able to backup their numbers, like Shane has been doing. Very consistent and has backed them up nicely!

On a personal note, I got some HKS 264/272 cams on the way along with cam gears and a ported n/t t/b. Waiting to here back about some valvesprings. Got my flywheel and all components for the clutch swap...just need the fluids to show up. Wideband should be here on Monday. I talked with ETS yesterday and they are all out of cores for their race intercoolers until next week, so I'll get a fmic on order next week. I will probably order the 'stuff' to connect my 2g maf up later today along with the chromoly crossmember and k plates from Paul! Once I get the trans swapped and the fluids in, I'll be swapping over and running through some E85!!! Can't wait!

 

[SBstar]

I agree with you Phil. That one hit wonder isn't enough for me. I like when people are able to backup their numbers, like Shane has been doing. Very consistent and has backed them up nicely!

On a personal note, I got some HKS 264/272 cams on the way along with cam gears and a ported n/t t/b. Waiting to here back about some valvesprings. Got my flywheel and all components for the clutch swap...just need the fluids to show up. Wideband should be here on Monday. I talked with ETS yesterday and they are all out of cores for their race intercoolers until next week, so I'll get a fmic on order next week. I will probably order the 'stuff' to connect my 2g maf up later today along with the chromoly crossmember and k plates from Paul! Once I get the trans swapped and the fluids in, I'll be swapping over and running through some E85!!! Can't wait!

Thanks, and I totally agree, in real racing records have to be backed up with another pass within 1%

Setup sounds good, pretty close to mine ha ha! You still think you're going to get out for some passes this year?

 

[1SloEvo]

I hope so. Should work on swapping the clutch this weekend and finish next week...swap to e85 and run a couple tanks through...get the cams and everything else installed and tuned the end of the month and hit the track early next month. Thats the plan at least!

 

[1qkfwd]

Would be nice to see some more attempts this year from others.

 

[SBstar]

I hope so. Should work on swapping the clutch this weekend and finish next week...swap to e85 and run a couple tanks through...get the cams and everything else installed and tuned the end of the month and hit the track early next month. Thats the plan at least!

Awesome! Can't wait.

Would be nice to see some more attempts this year from others.

Agreed! Get out there. I need something to push me next year, going to want to stay in that top 5 now!

 

[1qkfwd]

Oh I'll be out there next Saturday. I've had a few locals helping out with the missing pieces. I'd love to be in the top 5 but I really just wanna get some passes with the 14b and at least get on the list. It's nice that the tune isnt stock already and follows along for a small turbo. My main concern is keeping the boost at a high enough level to not be damaging.

 

[Kevin Jewer]

Yeeeaaaah. I think I'll just stick to regulating boost. I don't have a shelf full of turbos at my disposal and if it were to cost me a tenth either way, so be it. Also, if you're tuning for the spike, run a great number, then wreck the turbo, well, it's like a one hit wonder.

I don't think anyone tries to kill the turbos on purpose, most people just don't realize how hard the turbo is working when they try to crank up the boost. Even just setting a value with the boost controller that is higher than what the turbo can make (boost dropping with rpm, you're all doing it) is maxing out the compressor and driving the back pressure and thrust loads way up. I'd log it. I ran the 10.31 on the 16g by regulating back pressure instead of boost. I'd love to see someone try this on the 14b, since I won't get to it any time soon.

 

[Nate Crisman]

I ran the 10.31 on the 16g by regulating back pressure instead of boost. I'd love to see someone try this on the 14b, since I won't get to it any time soon.

Wouldn't it be nice if DsM link had a feature for a second map sensor input to log back pressure that was selectable as the input variable that drives the wgs logic? Then you could run a closed loop system to regulate exhaust back pressure.

I'll have a exh press sensor on my 14b effort this year.

Shit, you guys should take me off the list, as I don't back up passes. I make a run, and make big changes every pass. I don't think iv made two runs on the same tune/setup in the last 5 years.

 

[SBstar]

I don't think anyone tries to kill the turbos on purpose, most people just don't realize how hard the turbo is working when they try to crank up the boost. Even just setting a value with the boost controller that is higher than what the turbo can make (boost dropping with rpm, you're all doing it) is maxing out the compressor and driving the back pressure and thrust loads way up. I'd log it. I ran the 10.31 on the 16g by regulating back pressure instead of boost. I'd love to see someone try this on the 14b, since I won't get to it any time soon.

I'll have to look back at your 16g stuff. But, how exactly did you do this? Perhaps I don't fully understand the concept.