The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

[1SloEvo]

Shane, I would probably drop that shift point down a little more and shift the 1-2 around 64-6500, 2-3 and 3-4 around 66-6700. The power will hold a little better in higher gears due to the load, but drops off quick in first and second. I wouldn't doubt you run a bit quicker!! This is going off what I have seen on my dyno plots and personal track experience...although, I haven't ran a well built 14b setup at the track. The mildly modded setups I have ran pulled better times when shifting in the low to mid 6k rpm range until the 3-4 shift...which was around 65-6600.

 

[Phil1320]

You can only make so much hp with this little guy. There are many ways to skin a cat, but some of this stuff is to far fetched and way outta most these guys reach. Its no wonder why they all give up before even making it to the track.

Me personally just wants to get to the track and get some seat time and get comfy with the car. Im losing so much more weight than I expected. Im pretty excited to get a full weight of the car. Hopefully in a day or two I will have that.

What are most you guys launching at and shifting at???

True. Your second paragraph is the important one. It's seat time that's most important. That's why some of these big set up talks don't speak to me so much, because the guys that are attempting them so far have little or no drag strip experience whatsoever.

I launch at 6k. Couldn't tell ya what my 1-2 is, 2-3 6600, 3-4 6400-6600...

 

[SBstar]

Shane, I would probably drop that shift point down a little more and shift the 1-2 around 64-6500, 2-3 and 3-4 around 66-6700. The power will hold a little better in higher gears due to the load, but drops off quick in first and second. I wouldn't doubt you run a bit quicker!! This is going off what I have seen on my dyno plots and personal track experience...although, I haven't ran a well built 14b setup at the track. The mildly modded setups I have ran pulled better times when shifting in the low to mid 6k rpm range until the 3-4 shift...which was around 65-6600.

I may not have wordes that right? The 1-2 is an attempt to shift below 7k. The rpms come very fast, I've had passes where it's been right at 6k and the next pass at 7k with all of 100ths difference between passes. Especially launchingbeing at 6k it'sand tough to hothave that shiftpoint low. The 2-3 and 3-4 are.both around 6500. I've done alot of experimenting with shift points and every track visit when I pull as close to those.shift points as possible it's my best passes.

 

[Phil1320]

Shane, I would probably drop that shift point down a little more and shift the 1-2 around 64-6500, 2-3 and 3-4 around 66-6700. The power will hold a little better in higher gears due to the load, but drops off quick in first and second. I wouldn't doubt you run a bit quicker!! This is going off what I have seen on my dyno plots and personal track experience...although, I haven't ran a well built 14b setup at the track. The mildly modded setups I have ran pulled better times when shifting in the low to mid 6k rpm range until the 3-4 shift...which was around 65-6600.

I would say what you're talking about here with the 1-2 is near impossible, especially when launching at 6000rpm. Secondly, there's no way I could ever even look at a tach for the 1-2 shift. I have my rev limit up at 8000 just to stay off the limiter when launching. So, I'd say even with slicks I'm shifting out of first somewhere in the mid 7000 range. I make peak power at 5950 so a shift out of first at 6400 is a bit early imho.

Also, just because your set up stays the same, that doesn't mean shift points are always the same. Things like track elevation, track prep, humidity, and ambient air temp are some things that can warrant a change in shift points for optimum performance. All it takes is listening....don't really need a tach.

 

[SBstar]

Also, just because your set up stays the same, that doesn't mean shift points are always the same. Things like track elevation, track prep, humidity, and ambient air temp are some things that can warrant a change in shift points for optimum performance. All it takes is listening....don't really need a tach.

This is something I haven't picked up on as good as some of you more experienced guys. But, I am starting to get a feel for it. While experimenting with shift points you could audibly and obviously physically feel when the power dropped off. Looking at logs you can probably come up with a pretty good idea on where to shift as well. But, as Phil said shift points may be different for everyone, look at what worked for Dave, 8k shifts! It's going to depend on your setup.

Also I noticed the DSMTimes list finally got updated again! So I figured I'd update our thread I know I know...But Nate needs to update his time on the DSMTimes list as well. Still wish we had a way to keep this updated on the first post of this thread.

1. Joe Bucci 10.876 @ 123.83 FWD
2. Nate Crisman 11.377 @ 116.63 AWD
3. Phil Beers 11.497 @ 113.85 AWD
4. David Womer 11.514 @ 118.13 AWD
5. Shane Webster 11.541 @ 116.38 AWD
6. Leon Reitman 11.642 @ 116.56 AWD
7. Nick Carleton 11.767 @ 115.93 AWD
8. Aaron Sadorf 11.76 @ 113.37 FWD
9. Lucas English 11.7X @ XXX.X - I know he ran 11.7 and blew up his 14b AWD
10. Rob Harfman 11.938 @ 119.41 FWD

I want to have to update this more this year, come on guys!

 

[1qkfwd]

OK that gives me some sort of Ideas. Ive been playing with big turbos (35R and bigger) for so many years I forgot what its like with the smaller turbos. I never did get a chance to ask my buddy about his shift points with his 16G. I do know that on drag radials we where cutting mid 1.5s with the launch limiter set at 5750 with link. We tried the next step up in rpm and it didnt make any difference. This was kind of a heavy car to.

Its gonna be a whole different game with my fwd since the thing is so damn light. I think its even lighter than I expected as I keep weighing all the parts im swaping out and taking off the car.

UPDATE

So I finally got the car on the ground and had to get a weight. Race ready car minus driver is 1920 lbs. Me in the car total race weight is 2105lbs got a few things to tidy up before I start her up but it's looking good so far. I may be ready to throw some good passes Saturday if all goes well.

 

[Phil1320]

This is something I haven't picked up on as good as some of you more experienced guys. But, I am starting to get a feel for it. While experimenting with shift points you could audibly and obviously physically feel when the power dropped off. Looking at logs you can probably come up with a pretty good idea on where to shift as well. But, as Phil said shift points may be different for everyone, look at what worked for Dave, 8k shifts! It's going to depend on your setup.

Also I noticed the DSMTimes list finally got updated again! So I figured I'd update our thread I know I know...But Nate needs to update his time on the DSMTimes list as well. Still wish we had a way to keep this updated on the first post of this thread.

1. Joe Bucci 10.876 @ 123.83 FWD
2. Nate Crisman 11.377 @ 116.63 AWD
3. Phil Beers 11.497 @ 113.85 AWD
4. David Womer 11.514 @ 118.13 AWD
5. Shane Webster 11.541 @ 116.38 AWD
6. Leon Reitman 11.642 @ 116.56 AWD
7. Nick Carleton 11.767 @ 115.93 AWD
8. Aaron Sadorf 11.76 @ 113.37 FWD
9. Lucas English 11.7X @ XXX.X - I know he ran 11.7 and blew up his 14b AWD
10. Rob Harfman 11.938 @ 119.41 FWD

I want to have to update this more this year, come on guys!

I'd like to see Nate update, and, have Joe's 10.87 put on the main list. I think the 10.61 NOS run should be the sidebar as it's much less relevant. Just my .02

OK that gives me some sort of Ideas. Ive been playing with big turbos (35R and bigger) for so many years I forgot what its like with the smaller turbos. I never did get a chance to ask my buddy about his shift points with his 16G. I do know that on drag radials we where cutting mid 1.5s with the launch limiter set at 5750 with link. We tried the next step up in rpm and it didnt make any difference. This was kind of a heavy car to.

Its gonna be a whole different game with my fwd since the thing is so damn light. I think its even lighter than I expected as I keep weighing all the parts im swaping out and taking off the car.

UPDATE

So I finally got the car on the ground and had to get a weight. Race ready car minus driver is 1920 lbs. Me in the car total race weight is 2105lbs got a few things to tidy up before I start her up but it's looking good so far. I may be ready to throw some good passes Saturday if all goes well.

Pretty damn light! Still have the stock rear beam suspension? Good luck, hope you can make the track this weekend!

This is something I haven't picked up on as good as some of you more experienced guys. But, I am starting to get a feel for it. While experimenting with shift points you could audibly and obviously physically feel when the power dropped off. Looking at logs you can probably come up with a pretty good idea on where to shift as well. But, as Phil said shift points may be different for everyone, look at what worked for Dave, 8k shifts! It's going to depend on your setup.

All it takes is that seat time. I look at the tach only to see when I'm shifting, not to ''tell'' me when to shift. If I bite the bullet and buy dsmlink, I'll finally have some logs to look at.

 

[1qkfwd]

Yup still have that heavy chunk in there. That's the one thing that comes to mind when I wanna drop more weight. That thing is so heavy. Later I'll probably get a custom one made. Then after that it would be Lexan front window since its the only one not done. Definately a bare bones car.

It's down to the wire now for sat. Got a few things left including a self alignment. Not much time to finish. I have to get a cold air intake made by then to. I feel it's the key to this little turbo making any extra power.

 

[SBstar]

That's awesome Justin! I love that weight figure! You'll have to make a list of the weight reduction modifications you've done some time. Can't wait for saturday now, looking forward to any results no matter what!

On the home front, pulled the trans out yesterday, the pressure plate looks ok so I'll probably just pick up a 4 or 6 puck disc and throw it back in. I'd like to do a lighter flywheel since it's apart but I don't think I'll have the budget for even an extra hundred at this point. But, with the motivation from Texas Nathan I decided to go after the dash some more. Removed 5.5 lbs yesterday and another 5 today (did include one brake dust shield I forgot was still on the car). I have to work up the motivation to tackle the wiring harness now.

 

[1qkfwd]

Pretty much if it was bolted to the car and was usless I got rid of it. All the windows are lexan except the front. Ditched the fuel tank and run a 1gal cell up front. Doors and crash beams are gone. No dash. No harness except a modified engine harness. Weld drag lites on the front. Summit skinnies on the rear. Plastic summit seat. I did go and drill out all the spot welds on all the extra brackets everywhere in the car so like the speaker mounts, factory seat and seat belt mounts, ect. The outside I even ditched all the tim and spoiler. I did the every lbs counts thing here. Carbon fiber hood. No bumper supports.

So pretty much just enough metel to go down the track and hold me and the engine safely. Even a 6-point DOM cage. The material of the cage was estimated to weigh in at 85 lbs just to give you an idea. And I also have a factory weight flywheel in the car.

I boost leak tested the car and fixed all my leaks last night and even a fuel leak. I got all my changes made through link for the smaller setup and even uploaded a more aggressive timing map. All thats left is alignment, bleed clutch, make intake, torque down wheels, adjust shift linkage, and give the car a hand bath. So as long as the intake and alignment go smoothly things at the track will be promisng. Oh besides keeping my fingers crossed that the trans I installed is in good shape.

 

[SBstar]

I think we might need pics of this thing

 

[1qkfwd]

I think we might need pics of this thing

Ill get some better and more up to date pics this weeked. I will warn though she aint very pretty. No where near as nice as Joes car.

So it looks like my weight vs his weight, my race weight is 135lbs lighter than his. Im at a slight disadvantage with our track since at times our DA can be as high as 4500-5000ft. The track itself is up there to. So next year I will be towing to Sacramento to get some runs.

I keep getting this strong gut feeling the car can match Joes nos 14B time (not mph) with no nos.

Heres a few pics of the car and some of the stuff thats still on the car. The burnout pic was with the PTE6262. The car is all one rattle can color now and has the shinier wheels.

 

[1SloEvo]

Can't wait to see that FWD run! That thing is lite. I still had ALL glass, mesh wheels on the back (they were about 42lb each with the tires), window motors, tracks and crash bars in place in my FWD! I also still had the steel hood, but I had cut the bracing out as much as I could. The car was 2040lb. Swapping the wheels alone would have gotten me well below 2k lb. If I had went lexan windows, fiberglass hood/hatch, and gutted the doors, it would have been sub 1900lb. Some coilovers would have shaved a little more as I was on stock struts w/ ebay coilover springs. Unfortunately life happened and I moved houses so I parted it out. But now I have my AWD!!!

Quick update for me...got a lot of parts in...mini battery, springs/retainers, cams and gears, ported N/T throttle body, head studs, and a few other odds and ins. Drained the tank tonight. Will be throwing in 10 gallons of E85 tomorrow. I need to finish bleeding the clutch, make a bracket for the mini battery and reconnect the uicp and intake. I will be driving the car with the stock throttle body, smic and i/m for a bit to get some tanks of E85 run through. Then I can swap the valvetrain, should have the fmic kit and my JMF race manifold!!!

 

[1qkfwd]

Got the car fired up and let her warm up with the 14B. So far everything looks good. Still have a few loose ends to tidy up.

How much boost you guys seeing on the 2-step around 5500?? I let it warm up and im seeing 11psi. Seems kinda low for some reason.

 

[Phil1320]

Got the car fired up and let her warm up with the 14B. So far everything looks good. Still have a few loose ends to tidy up.

How much boost you guys seeing on the 2-step around 5500?? I let it warm up and im seeing 11psi. Seems kinda low for some reason.

Nice! I see 12 psi @ 6000

 

[1qkfwd]

I saw about 7-8 on my 6262. My buddies 1g that we maxed out the E316G on would hit 14-15. So I guess 11 at my crap elevation isnt to bad. Now that i've warmed her up gonna go through everything again and do another boost leak test just to make sure.

 

[Phil1320]

I saw about 7-8 on my 6262. My buddies 1g that we maxed out the E316G on would hit 14-15. So I guess 11 at my crap elevation isnt to bad. Now that i've warmed her up gonna go through everything again and do another boost leak test just to make sure.

Sounds like its doin the job to me

 

[SBstar]

Ha ha I haven't done a blt since I put the motor back in it. Really should get to that. Can't wait for results tomorrow!

 

[Nate Crisman]

Also anxious to see results from the new ultra light contender....good luck.

Light a fire for me!!

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Me too Justin! I'm hoping to be getting to the track this year after all. I haven't been in 6 months, since I bought the Evo. Originally I was just going to wait until next spring but Shane and Justin have been motivating me. I dropped over 100 lbs already (so my car is around 2400 or so) and my super lightweight Bogarts and M&H slicks and skinnies should be shipping tomorrow. Hopefully I'll at least get down to the low to mid 12's. Then over the winter I will continue cutting weight to get down to at least 2200 lbs and start getting some seat time in next spring.

 

[1qkfwd]

As long as the weather holds up eveything is gonna be a go. I had to fix a lot of odds and ends with the clutch system. I couldnt even hit the 5500rpm limiter without the car inching forward. Now I can hit the 7500 rpm and doesnt budge. Spent most the night last night making a cold air intake for the car. Im going to do a once over the car one more time before taking it out just to make sure.

I just remembered last time I had a 14B on this car was like in 03 and the car went 13.8. So I guess 12s would be a good starting point for me. Im trying to keep the mentallity of just getting the car down the track and not go for the record tomorrow. We will see what happens though.

Glad I can assist in creating a flame

 

[SBstar]

You all are making me wish my season wasn't over. And making me anxious to find the money for next. But, the best thing all you fwd guys are doing is motivating me to really get more serious with the weight loss stuff. I can't afford the lexan, fiberglass, and carbon fiber stuff. But, I can get more serious about getting by with the bare essentials, and even without some of those ha ha

 

[1qkfwd]

You got it Shane. Just keep picking away at the important stuff like you've been doin. I've been working on this shell for a couple years ago. Stuff like the engine and intercooler were donated parts from another car. I'm trying to keep the car light right now without custom fab stuff and spending a ton of money.

 

[SBstar]

Waiting on numbers...but I've got a feeling!

 

[Nate Crisman]

I'm awaiting news too