The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

[1qkfwd]

Are you on DSMlink? V3? Speed density? My setup and tune are nearly identical to yours, amazing what a few hundred less lbs can do! (not to mention better 60' times )

Ya I'm on v3 speed density. I don't think I'd have it any other way. I think weight is playing a huge role in this. The non believers can start taking notes on this.

 

[SBstar]

Leave it up to you to make sure all details are in order.

The weight is 2105. That was a typo. It's fixed now.
Tire pressure I settled for 7psi
Highest timing I saw was 24 degrees no less than 21. Maybe this week I'll post some logs on link so you can go over them.
Afr's 11.8-11.9 range
Im not exactly sure on the temps.



Thanks dave

Sorry man, told ya not to take it that way. I like learning from others accomplishments. Proper numbers make that possible. Forgive me if I'm reading that response wrong.

Ya I'm on v3 speed density. I don't think I'd have it any other way. I think weight is playing a huge role in this. The non believers can start taking notes on this.

Weight is #1
There is no doubt after what you pulled on the first attempt! Seat time, better track, and a little magic and we might just see someone pass Joe finally. It's a ways off but theres clearly more in there for sure. We'll keep pushing ya too!

 

[Phil1320]

I was just comparing numbers and your set up is 355 lbs. lighter than mine and you make alot more power, but your 1/4 ET advantage is a mere .13 seconds, and you are down at the 1/8. So, while we talk about weight being significant, its apparent in this case that it gained you some great trap speed but that it didn't translate into ET that trumps the AWD cars by any significant margin.

 

[Kevin Jewer]

I feel like all of that goes without saying. Power to weight is trap speed, power to weight plus traction is ET, and you need to leave at peak power and apply all of it to get the ideal ET to mph ratio.

 

[Phil1320]

I feel like all of that goes without saying. Power to weight is trap speed, power to weight plus traction is ET, and you need to leave at peak power and apply all of it to get the ideal ET to mph ratio.

Possibly, but it's a noteworthy comparo for me. 355 lbs. is a huge margin. I couldn't lose 355 lbs. of total race weight if I tried. His 60' is super close to what Joe ran on his 10.87 pass....yet he's a full half second off Joe's pass. That won't simply be made up with a 1.5x 60'. While this was a valiant first effort, it's no surprise that he handily beat us AWD guys even if by a slim margin. However, Joe B. is still in a class all by himself.

 

[hubz91talontsi]

He mentioned that he couldn't hold any pressure over 15psi. I didn't see anything about no lift shifting. Elevation certainty isn't helping him.

 

[SBstar]

I agree and it's no offense to Justin at all. Very impressive run, be proud. But, it's still a long way off from Joe. The only possible advantage Joe had was the liquid to air, yet has the disadvantage of almost 150lbs. I think Justin will get quicker but it still looks like it'll take more then elevation and a better 60'. We'll see if we're wrong. But, it's a testament to what Joe did. Part of it is Joe had alot of time with that car and took it step by step. It's very hard to compare that to someone with a car they are not familiar with and have only made several passes.

He mentioned that he couldn't hold any pressure over 15psi. I didn't see anything about no lift shifting. Elevation certainty isn't helping him.

You're correct, but no one including Joe has held boost with cams on the 14b. I'd be very surprised if he wasn't using nlts. But there is an elevation change in order but does anyone know what Joe ran at? The good thing is Justin has no where to go but up. Just has to stick with it.

Nevermind. Brandenton where Joe ran is at 20'.

Guess we need to start recording elevation too ha ha! So many numbers!

 

[91stocker]

Well correct me if im wrong but with elevation correction he would be the new record holder wouldnt he? Quickest and fastest.

 

[Phil1320]

Rofl

 

[91stocker]

Rofl

Hypothetically jackass.

With correction for 3900ft that would put him at 10.81@127, making him the quickest and fastest 14b.

 

[Phil1320]

not even close to the record.

rofl

 

[hubz91talontsi]

Hard to calculate how fast he should go at sea level. A easy calculation we can do is calculate how much horsepower is lost due to elevation. I don't know how much power he is making at 4000ft, but if it's around 320whp he loses over 30whp due to elevation. That puts him around the same horsepower as Joe and we know he is lighter than Joe.

 

[91stocker]

Hard to calculate how fast he should go at sea level.

I was just using nhra's altitude correction factors. For 3900ft they list a correction factor of .9523 for et and 1.0507 for mph. Which they claim to be very accurate.

Hard for people to compare that to joe's run with such a huge variable like the altitude that must be factored in. It makes comments and comparisons like post #3155 pretty silly really.

 

[1qkfwd]

All this talk . I know that elevation is only part of the equation. I'm looking at this picture at what I need to do to knock down each tenth at a time. The car started fresh and you can see by the first three passes the car gained time and mph. Something happened after the third pass with the car and didn't feel like all the power was there. My 11.3 pass log showed 31 lbs/min at 5500rpm after that it was less than that and I had a good full 3 turns up on the controller. After my third pass I made zero changes except tire pressure and the car felt worse. For having driven my fwd only twice this year, these are the best and most consistent 60' times to date. I know what changes I need for next time out. My 60' time may be close to joes but my 330 is where the change in time starts to show. That can the good tire spin that is shown in my logs. Yesterday for me wasn't to break any records. I went out had fun and made what small improvements I could.

 

[YZFR1]

I went out had fun and made what small improvements I could.

^ This, i think people have forgetten about having "fun" part about this. That's why i stopped participating in this thread it is just not fun anymore.

Congrats on the first pass ARFWD!

I think weight is playing a huge role in this. The non believers can start taking notes on this.

I don't think anyone disagrees that weight is very improtant. Heck, if you drop enough weight you are going to have NO CHOICE but to go much faster. Even nitrous is more challenging and problematic, not a lot can go wrong with a huge weight reduction. It is just that not everyone wants to gut their cars but to go fast in style

 

[Phil1320]

The fact that someone brought up altitude correction at all is what makes numbers like what's quoted in post #3163 pretty silly really.

What's printed on your timeslip is what you ran, end of story. If you live in Denver, oh well, it is what it is. Get to Englishtown or Atco if you wanna run the ''fastest'' tracks, otherwise you run what you run.

 

[SBstar]

All this talk . I know that elevation is only part of the equation. I'm looking at this picture at what I need to do to knock down each tenth at a time. The car started fresh and you can see by the first three passes the car gained time and mph. Something happened after the third pass with the car and didn't feel like all the power was there. My 11.3 pass log showed 31 lbs/min at 5500rpm after that it was less than that and I had a good full 3 turns up on the controller. After my third pass I made zero changes except tire pressure and the car felt worse. For having driven my fwd only twice this year, these are the best and most consistent 60' times to date. I know what changes I need for next time out. My 60' time may be close to joes but my 330 is where the change in time starts to show. That can the good tire spin that is shown in my logs. Yesterday for me wasn't to break any records. I went out had fun and made what small improvements I could.

At least somebodies head is screwed on straight. Good for you, keep us updated as always.

Yes, there are tons of factors to consider, but the timeslip says what it says no matter what "if" you want to throw in there. I mean no disrespect by going over the.numbers and comparisons on anyone's runs. It's all for whatever knowledge can be gained.


Also elevation doesn't affect turbo cars the same as naturally aspirated so the nhra tables are not applicable here. There is a way of figuring it but in the real world it means very little as every day and even throughout the day things change. Let Justin get to the other track instead of predicting what the car did, instead of reading the timeslip for what it was, which was pretty good!

 

[91stocker]

Edited to avoid any further arguments. Congrats on the number 2

 

[Phil1320]

The batch of runs is super impressive either way you want to slice it. I slice it my way, others slice it theirs. Noone is insulting. I was told something similar, so being that he's 1/100 ahead of Nate and still .50 away from besting Joe, he's really in ''our'' class, and Joe still stands alone. If this isn't obvious to see, then I've clearly missed something.

 

[1qkfwd]

I'm not insulted one bit. I really just wanted to get on the list yesterday even if it was number 10 spot. I'm Picasso painting a picture. I'm working on a small corner and the main picture is that I'm gonna beat joes time one way or another. If that means goin to sea level then so be it.

Another big difference that can affect et and mph between my car and joes is the fact he ran an awd trans and 26" slicks. I'm gonna try to stick with the fwd and 24.5" slicks. I know the overall ratio is different so the time slip breakdown will be different. Worst case I throw in my awId trans and throw on my 26" tires. It's all about the right combo. I don't really care what my mph is but I'm after the et.

 

[SBstar]

Alright, I'm a little hesitant to post this, for one I mean no disrespect to Justin, and for two it kind of shows how obsessed I've become with record keeping and numbers. But, hopefully we can all be adults about it.

Found a DA calculator and pulled out Bucci's old timeslip. Threw in the numbers and then threw in Justin's from today. On the calculator they have a spot for turbo or supercharged vehicles, it makes a huge difference compared to N/A. Corrected times came out to.

Bucci 10.812 @ 124.573
Aichele 11.0 @ 125.458

So there you have it if you care, I really don't, just enough to punch it in. It's interesting but it doesn't really mean anything.

Anyways, sorry the discussion went the wrong way for a bit there. Look forward to seeing you progress even further.

 

[1qkfwd]

I'm not easily offended Shane. It's all discussion.

Honestly to me it's just numbers. I base everything off true track results and still know I ran an 11.3@121. There's a lot of couldve and would'ves. I'm very good at looking at every bad thing that happened in my runs and change the more important ones. For me I'm not happy with my 60' times and the way the car feels there is more in it. This happened with my awd and low and behold the car consistently hit 1.4s and as I made changes the car hit a 1.3 60'.

Joe b was on 25 lbs of boost, I'm sure dropping by the end of each gear. That'll be a gain. My shifts where quick but they can benefit from nlts. Saturday was my baseline. Now I know what needs to improve. I know that first time out my runs where better than I even expected. I have zero complaints in how the car performed for bein thrown together in a short time. My focus now is goin over the car, fixing what needs fixing, and then making any upgrades that may help.

I can say Shane lit my fire and talkin to Joe a couple weeks ago was a bit more motivating. I do plan on resetting the current 14b time held by Joe. We are goin over 7 years since this has been set and it's time someone beats this.

 

[91stocker]

Alright, I'm a little hesitant to post this, for one I mean no disrespect to Justin, and for two it kind of shows how obsessed I've become with record keeping and numbers. But, hopefully we can all be adults about it.

Found a DA calculator and pulled out Bucci's old timeslip. Threw in the numbers and then threw in Justin's from today. On the calculator they have a spot for turbo or supercharged vehicles, it makes a huge difference compared to N/A. Corrected times came out to.

Bucci 10.812 @ 124.573
Aichele 11.0 @ 125.458

So there you have it if you care, I really don't, just enough to punch it in. It's interesting but it doesn't really mean anything.

Anyways, sorry the discussion went the wrong way for a bit there. Look forward to seeing you progress even further.

Nice, an even better "guesstimate". I only brought up altitude as a hypothetical point of discussion. Seem interesting that no one mentioned it with how much his runs were getting ripped apart .

I can say Shane lit my fire and talkin to Joe a couple weeks ago was a bit more motivating. I do plan on resetting the current 14b time held by Joe. We are goin over 7 years since this has been set and it's time someone beats this.

Well your car has it in it. That's an amazing first day outing. No nlts, first day out, and at 4,000ft.

I dont know if anyone asked yet, but did you get vids of the runs?

 

[1qkfwd]

Nice, an even better "guesstimate". I only brought up altitude as a hypothetical point of discussion. Seem interesting that no one mentioned it with how much his runs were getting ripped apart .



Well your car has it in it. That's an amazing first day outing. No nlts, first day out, and at 4,000ft.

I dont know if anyone asked yet, but did you get vids of the runs?

I've got all my runs on video. My go pro died for the in car stuff but I think I got my first 3 runs on that to. I'll see what I can do to get them uploaded.

 

[outlawdsm]

one of you 14b guys need to try some FTW purple and get that extra HP