Starting issues - No / Doesn't / Won't Start - MERGED

[prodsm]

All "my car won't start" discussion threads are merged HERE. We've basically made it easier for those who insist upon not searching by grouping together all threads from those with similar issues so you can just scroll through and see some possible solutions. To search for info within this thread, use the "Search This Thread" feature in the black bar about 3" above what you're reading right now.

Could be anything from a loose battery terminal to internal engine damage, and literally everything in between which may involve the electrical, fuel, and ignition system...possibly even something that you screwed up while working on the car yourself. While it's unlikely we're going to diagnose and solve your problem over the internet, feel free to discuss any possible solutions.



I live in Canada and right now its not very warm out, about -30c
my car does not have a block heater too keep it warm.

I tryed to start my car this morning and it wouldent start, ive had this problem before but this time, the car doesnt crank at all it just makes a sound that sounds like an electric drill.

Whats wrong.

Thanks

 

[LiquidX]

Yes it's up to date. Green but stock injectors. Regardless, it would idle.

I'm using the omnipower 4 bar map and GM IAT sensor in ecmtuning's SD bundle they offer.

Apparently the WB needs 12v power source? I've had to to an ECU power then grounded to chassis ground (which i know is correct). so i'm going to to grab power from a different source for that.

I'm clueless on how to get that info into those rows where you wrote. You can see I've assigned the pins but how do I get that table to display that stuff? I'm lost on that

Also, do I have everything else in the other tabs setup correctly? And as far as dialing the SD itself, I have no guidlines to do so such as using the stock MAF. That is completely cut out.

For the Wideband, connect to a constant switched power (ignition) so that when you cycle the key from on-start, it won't interrupt the power signal. I'm tapped into the wiper fuse under the dash.

I believe you right click on the box that shows "factory/none", select the sensor you are going to use, enter a name for it, click on save pin assignment, then click on the capture values button to be able to log it.


Upload this VE table which is a good base line to start with.

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['97 Cayenne]

For the Wideband, connect to a constant switched power (ignition) so that when you cycle the key from on-start, it won't interrupt the power signal. I'm tapped into the wiper fuse under the dash.

I believe you right click on the box that shows "factory/none", select the sensor you are going to use, enter a name for it, click on save pin assignment, then click on the capture values button to be able to log it.


Upload this VE table which is a good base line to start with.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Here's what happened just now

Can we clear up where exactly im supposed to grab power and grounds from for my MAP and IAT sensors?

 

[LiquidX]

You didn't upload the full .ELG file

ALso you need to datalog the sensors you just installed by capturing them.

 

['97 Cayenne]

You didn't upload the full .ELG file

ALso you need to datalog the sensors you just installed by capturing them.

Ok I think I got it now. I used the first file you gave me and set up the sensors. i didn't try the other VEtable you gave me yet.

 

[LiquidX]

There were multiple tabs I altered for you which you didn't upload from that last log you posted. You need to hit "save all to ECU", not just "save to ECU" which does the single tab you are on.

 

['97 Cayenne]

Ok here's what I did.

Took the first file you gave me 'upload me' and 'copied all to disk' and went over and clicked 'save all to ecu'

Then I loaded the ve table you gave me and clicked 'copy to disk' to just copy the ve table tab. then went to mine and clicked 'save all to ecu.

Made sure my sensors were being logged and captured.

Is that right? or did you just want me to take the 'VE table' file and only copy that to my disk?

here's what it looks like now.

 

[LiquidX]

Good.

Now we need to assess your AirflowPerRev value which should be reading 0.27ish gm/rev (not 0.11 gm/rev).

What is your fuel pressure set at, has that been altered?

One possible issue I'm seeing is the fact your MAP sensor is showing vacuum when the car isn't running.

 

['97 Cayenne]

Good.

Now we need to assess your AirflowPerRev value which should be reading 0.27ish gm/rev (not 0.11 gm/rev).

What is your fuel pressure set at, has that been altered?

One possible issue I'm seeing is the fact your MAP sensor is showing vacuum when the car isn't running.

FP is set at 40psi. I set that a while ago by turning the pump on with link and setting it.

IDK what's up with the MAP sensor. Power for it is from the Volume air flow sensor (pin 90) and ground is ecu ground (pin 13 or 26 (can't remember which one)). And the signal is obviously in MDP (pin 73) Are those connections ok or should I change it up? It doesn't make sense though because voltage between the power and ground is like 2 volts

 

[LiquidX]

I personally used the MDP plug connection for power signal and ground when I had my Omnipower MAP sensor. I would suggest doing the same. It's 3 wires and that will eliminate any issues you may be having.

 

['97 Cayenne]

That might work. I know ive got the signal wire correct. but do the power and ground wires run into the main power and main ground wires on the engine harness? i cant remember exactly cause like i said i've cut all the plugs off that i don't need.

I'll tackle this tomorrow after work. long day.

keep the suggestions coming!

but for the GM IAT ground, that goes to sensor ground correct? that's what ecmtuning says anyway

 

[LiquidX]

For the IAT, I installed mine right after the FMIC so I ended up tapping into the MAF plug for those connections which is just 2.

 

['97 Cayenne]

For the IAT, I installed mine right after the FMIC so I ended up tapping into the MAF plug for those connections which is just 2.

ok. ya u just tapped into the wires at the plug instead of the ecu like im doing.

 

[LiquidX]

Correct.

 

['97 Cayenne]

Ok im about to switch around the wires for the mdp. signal wire is correct on pin 73 (Lg/black wire right at the ecu). i'm going to do what you did liquidx and just hook up to the three wires for the original mdp sensor. I read the mfi schematic on ecm's website but i'm confused on what pin the green/yellow wires goes to on the ecu. i'm assuming its pin 81 (sensor impressed voltage) which would be the power to the map (or my MAP)
And I did see on the mfi schematic that the mdp ground was tied in with pin 92 (sensor ground)

is this all correct?

 

[LiquidX]

You can use a multimeter to figure out the wires. One is ground, power, and signal.

when I get home, I can take a photo of the connection. I still have my omnipower plug hooked up.

 

['97 Cayenne]

She runs!!! now help me fine tune!

 

[LiquidX]

I need you to log some more items.

I need ISCPosition, battery, lrndidleadjust at the least. More items captured the better off a log will be. They don't need to be displayed either.

Congrats that you got it up now. First start by increasing your dead time since your global fuel is at +15% or so. You want that to be around +/-5% at idle. Closer to 0% the better. This is why you need to verify your fuel settings are correct.

 

['97 Cayenne]

Here's another log with the captured values. i displayed them anyway. That first log i gave was using the bov port as a source for the MAP. now I'm using the A port on the TB and this is the log that is given. the o2 isn't cycling anymore?

 

[LiquidX]

That port doesn't see manifold pressure. You need to read your logs and understand them too.

 

[geno414]

CTS is the coolant temp sensor, the 2 wire sensor.
It's a resistance based sensor so you want to test to make sure it's spitting out the proper values for a given water temperature.

Water Temperature in F. Ohm reading from the sensor. If it's in between for temp, get an estimate of where it should be to gauge if it's good or not.
32*F = 5.9k ohms
68*F = 3.5k ohms
104*F = 2.7k ohms
176*F = 0.3k ohms

When i did the light test to it it did not have power i do not have a ohm reading tool to use.

 

[LiquidX]

Go to RadioShack, Sears, where ever and get a multimeter to test the sensor. What light test did you do?

 

['97 Cayenne]

Guess that's why the map sensor was at .2 haha. I switch it to the p port for now. until sometime when i get around to making another hole in the IM


Here's a log with everything running and logging good. now I just need to figure out where the #### to begin with speed density

 

[LiquidX]

First thing you need to do is do a good solid boost leak test and eliminate any leaks you may have. After that you need to set your idle properly. Your ISCPosition should be at a value of 30 so you'll need to adjust your BISS slowly to get it there.

Next you get to get your CombFT down as the ECU is adding a ton of fuel so start by increasing your dead time to get it down.
http://www.ecmtuning.com/demos/fueltrim.html

 

['97 Cayenne]

First thing you need to do is do a good solid boost leak test and eliminate any leaks you may have. After that you need to set your idle properly. Your ISCPosition should be at a value of 30 so you'll need to adjust your BISS slowly to get it there.

Next you get to get your CombFT down as the ECU is adding a ton of fuel so start by increasing your dead time to get it down.
http://www.ecmtuning.com/demos/fueltrim.html

I'll get to trying to get this thing to idle properly tomorrow. as well as doing a boost leak test first.

Couple questions

1. Any suggestion on why I wouldn't be switching to closed loop? Even after sitting for five minutes running it won't switch. it will sometimes switch when i hit the gas. Do i need to change to voltage switch point?
I'm using this wideband. What should my switch point be for this? Or does that not have anythin to do with switching switching between open and closed loop
EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts

2. Any info on what size pvc endcap I should be using for an HTA FP Green? This green has a 4" inlet but I know that doesn't mean a 4" endcap will work. anyone have any experience with what size endcap is needed for this turbo?

 

[LiquidX]

I'll get to trying to get this thing to idle properly tomorrow. as well as doing a boost leak test first.

Couple questions

1. Any suggestion on why I wouldn't be switching to closed loop? Even after sitting for five minutes running it won't switch. it will sometimes switch when i hit the gas. Do i need to change to voltage switch point?
I'm using this wideband. What should my switch point be for this? Or does that not have anythin to do with switching switching between open and closed loop
EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts

2. Any info on what size pvc endcap I should be using for an HTA FP Green? This green has a 4" inlet but I know that doesn't mean a 4" endcap will work. anyone have any experience with what size endcap is needed for this turbo?

1. Your fuel trims are causing you to stay in closed loop operation which need to get fixed. When you get everything sorted out and your idle is golden, I'll help you with your switch point.

2. If it has a 4" inlet, you'll need a 4" reducing coupler to whatever size piece you are using. I personally would start at the TB for leak testing as that is where the majority will be at.
Intake Leak Pressure Tester