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Starting issues - No / Doesn't / Won't Start - MERGED

Posted by prodsm, Jan 25, 2004

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  1. crxdsmdan

    crxdsmdan Probationary Member

    26
    0
    Joined Aug 11, 2012
    winnipeg, MB, Canada
    redid the timing on my 1g talon, replaced ALL sensors, everything is new. car doesn't start.

    when i installed the new timing belt kit i left the oil pump pulley off because i didn't think it matters.

    question: does the oil pump pulley have to be aligned with everything else?

    thanks!!
     
  2. TurboLaserRS

    TurboLaserRS Proven Member

    372
    6
    Joined May 14, 2011
    Dayton, Ohio
    It won't cause a no start condition, but it's a really bad idea. Especially if you still have balance shafts. I don't understand why you would neglect something like the oil pump being in the correct phase, especially when it's so easy to do correctly. Not busting your balls, but there is a mark it's supposed to line up with for a reason.
     

    1K  0

    1990 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo
    11.128 @ 132.500 · 1G DSM
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  3. NHerron

    NHerron Proven Member

    2,520
    54
    Joined Nov 5, 2011
    Missoula, Montana
    It will start, no matter.

    Phasing does not matter if you have no balance shafts.

    If have balance shafts and oil pump gear is out of phase, the engine will be sure to let you know what it thinks of you and your repair work.

    ...Say bye-bye to your motor mounts and a comfortable DD!
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2012

    1K  0

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    11.230 @ 127.000 · 2G DSM
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  4. 95'RS-T

    95'RS-T Proven Member

    438
    0
    Joined Mar 10, 2009
    Germansville, Pennsylvania
    If you have the balance shafts removed, no it don't matter. Do all your other timing marks line up? Did the car run before the timing belt job?
     

    445  0

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    · 2G DSM
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  5. 007jimmy

    007jimmy Proven Member

    1,472
    101
    Joined Feb 27, 2012
    Levittown, Pennsylvania
    Did you mix up any plugs by any chance when you replaced the sensors? Some plugs are exactly the same as others. What did you replace?
     

    Street Build 1K  25

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM
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  6. crxdsmdan

    crxdsmdan Probationary Member

    26
    0
    Joined Aug 11, 2012
    winnipeg, MB, Canada
    i wasn't the one to do it this time, i left it to my uncle. he said it shouldn't matter where the oil pump is but i figured it has the markings to line up for a reason.

    - can it be the oil pump pulley cause such a bad vibration that the knock sensor picks it up and keeps the car from starting? sorry if that's a stupid question, but it seems to make sense in theory and ive tested EVERYTHING on this car, i cant figure out what else it could be.

    he mentioned he put fuel in the spark plugs and it started but we tested out everything in the fuel system and everything tested ok. we did it again when i got home and the car seemed like it wanted to start but never did after.

    guess i gotta go back to basics and start from square one again.

    -timing was way off before, my best guess is the ECU needs to be reset perhaps and the CAS readjusted? would an out of place CAS cause a no start or just bad idle/misfire?
     
  7. fierosail

    fierosail Proven Member

    86
    2
    Joined Mar 23, 2012
    bozeman, Montana
    if it was way off u could have bent a valve to a compression test 0psi= no fire. If i remember correctly 5 or 4 teeth can bend a valve
     

    294  0

    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    · 2G DSM
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  8. Calan

    Calan DSM Wiseman

    6,015
    278
    Joined Jan 16, 2007
    OKC, Oklahoma
    Not if the oil pump is the only thing not lined up.

    I'm not sure if you were suggesting a compression test with the rest of that barely legible sentence, but if so... it's a horrible idea to do a compression test if you suspect bent valves. If they are bent, do you really want to keep cranking the engine over and possibly smacking the pistons into bent valves and doing more damage?

    A leak-down test is a much better option.

    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/338152-compression-leak-down-testing.html
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2012

    4K  0

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    15.2 @ 89.300 · 1G DSM
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  9. fierosail

    fierosail Proven Member

    86
    2
    Joined Mar 23, 2012
    bozeman, Montana
    was thinking along the lines of full timing not just oil pump
     

    294  0

    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    · 2G DSM
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  10. DSM1G90

    DSM1G90 Proven Member

    4,839
    60
    Joined Apr 6, 2008
    Nampa, Idaho
    Funny how people from a generation ago love to use their techniques from the past on today's equipment and think it will still be okey ... NOT!

    Sorry, doesn't work that way.

    VFAQ Site - Visual Frequently Answered Questions has all the answers on the DSM

    -DSM
     

    2K  0

    1990 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo
    · 1G DSM
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  11. BLAKSUNSHINE

    BLAKSUNSHINE Proven Member

    35
    0
    Joined Sep 26, 2009
    san antonio, Texas
    Was helping a friend with a no start problem.Everything seem to be fine,the motor had gas,spark and he never checked compression! Come to find out all intake valves were bent,rocker arms were loose,but the motor turned fast and gave no sign of anything wrong.As stated before I would say to check compression!
     

    325  0

    1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 1G DSM
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  12. Calan

    Calan DSM Wiseman

    6,015
    278
    Joined Jan 16, 2007
    OKC, Oklahoma
    And as I stated just 3 posts up...

     

    4K  0

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    15.2 @ 89.300 · 1G DSM
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  13. pauleyman

    pauleyman DSM Wiseman

    5,349
    1,145
    Joined Nov 19, 2011
    oklahoma city, Oklahoma
    This may sound harsh but if you uncle doesn't know DSMs I would be the timing isn't right. Double check the marks and the tensioner. You also did not state if you have balance shafts. If you do you must put the oil pump not only in time but in phase. If you aren't sure what this is go to any of the writeups, vfaq.com etc. If the car jumped time significantly you would likely bend valves. Do not do a compression test. Do a leakdown if anything. The fact that the car reacted to fuel manually placed in the cylinders is promising. Makes me want to believe the injectors aren't firing. There are a 100 different reasons for what you are describing but the first one I would check is timing. Mechanical timing not ignition timing.
     

    Street Build 3K  1

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  14. oneowner

    oneowner Probationary Member

    7
    0
    Joined Jun 9, 2006
    Langley,
    My new laptop has a 15 pin VGA so will have to find a 9 pin adapter then post a log.
     
  15. drmuelr

    drmuelr Probationary Member

    13
    0
    Joined Jul 8, 2008
    San Diego, California
    Update:

    I've put 100 more miles on the car - problem has gotten no better; less gas in tank.

    I checked resistance across the ECT sensor terminals, and that's in specs when cold. (I didn't check it hot, keep reading)

    I got my hands on an OBD-II scanner and the computer threw 3 codes:

    P0170: Fuel Trim
    P0125: Insufficient Coolant temp for closed loop fuel control
    P0170: Fuel Trim (Repeat, I know)

    Freeze frame data shows the fuel system IS running under closed loop, and the ECT sensor was reporting 190°F, which confirms the sensor is good when hot. If the ECT sensor IS bad, it's intermittent. I'm not sure why it would have thrown code P0125.

    Freeze frame data also shows the short term and long term fuel trim percentages in the double digits: 17.1% and 12.5%, respectively. This co-incides with the VERY prominent smell of fuel after all attempts to start via starter (which always fail).

    If she's running so rich that the spark plugs are getting fouled, that would explain the misfire conditions at low RPM.

    I'll triple check for disconnected vacuum lines tomorrow.

    I'll also check the upstream O2 sensor. I made no effort to protect the sensor while everything was taken apart over the months, so it could be contaminated, or could have been when I put never-seize on the threads. I've also got a very prominent exhaust leak, but this should be downstream of the sensor. I'll see if that's an issue as well.

    I found out my local O'Reilly's recently added compression testers to their loaner-tool library. If everything checks out with the O2 sensor and exhaust leak, I'll move on to the compression test.

    Any more input?
     
  16. oneowner

    oneowner Probationary Member

    7
    0
    Joined Jun 9, 2006
    Langley,
    I have DSM Link. When I tried to run a log the lap top recognized the port that the cable was hooked to but I got an error msg saying " IO failed Command Timed Out". I can't get any info from the ECU.

    I updated the driver for the serial to usb adapter I bought and checked that the correct port was configured. If I change usb ports the DMS link software recognizes the change but still gives the time out error.

    Now I'm wondering if my car won't start because the DSM Link ECU chip has fried.

    Going to try a different serial to usb adapter.

    Still waiting for new USB/Serial adapter to arrive
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2012
  17. Btc89

    Btc89 Probationary Member

    25
    0
    Joined Aug 27, 2012
    Joshua, Texas
    My 95 Eclipse RS will not start. It has been sitting in my driveway for about 3 weeks while I was getting all the exhaust parts in and it started just fine before I started installing the exhaust parts. I installed a aftermarket header with down pipe and a high flow cat. The car has a check engine light on but, I don't know what is wrong and I don't have one of those orange testers that you hook under your dash. I even took the spark plugs out and cleaned them and even cleaned the O2 sensor by the header. If anybody could help me with this problem that would be great.
     
  18. 1995gstdsm

    1995gstdsm Proven Member

    68
    1
    Joined Nov 14, 2011
    Hanover, Pennsylvania
    Is it turning over and wont start?
     

    357  0

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    · 2G DSM
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  19. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

    12,805
    794
    Joined Dec 13, 2005
    Greensburg, Pennsylvania
    Exhaust installation has nothing to do with the car not starting unless the system isn't doing it's job of "exhausting". Even then it would likely start, run for a few seconds, and slowly shut off.

    Your car doesn't care if it has an exhaust system at all.
     

    3K  0

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    manual · 2G DSM

    5K  14

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    3K  0

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi
    manual · 1G DSM

    3K  0

    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
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  20. Btc89

    Btc89 Probationary Member

    25
    0
    Joined Aug 27, 2012
    Joshua, Texas
    Yes, It turns over but wont start. It seems like sometimes it wants to start but it doesnt.

    Yeah, your right.

    I can smell gas sometimes when I'm trying to start it.
     
  21. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

    12,805
    794
    Joined Dec 13, 2005
    Greensburg, Pennsylvania
    If you can smell fuel it's likely not getting spark. Check the coil and the cam/crank position sensor(s).
     

    3K  0

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    manual · 2G DSM

    5K  14

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    3K  0

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi
    manual · 1G DSM

    3K  0

    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
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  22. BLAKSUNSHINE

    BLAKSUNSHINE Proven Member

    35
    0
    Joined Sep 26, 2009
    san antonio, Texas
    This is what I was referring to:)
     

    325  0

    1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 1G DSM
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  23. Btc89

    Btc89 Probationary Member

    25
    0
    Joined Aug 27, 2012
    Joshua, Texas
    I bought a new coil about 3 months ago. Could it be a faulty one? Where is the cam / crank position sensor? I haven't had this car for a long time so I really don't know where things are.
     
  24. themanotb

    themanotb Probationary Member

    3
    0
    Joined Aug 29, 2010
    tampa, Florida
    really try to pull that code. check for fuel and spark. is it possible a o2 sensor got cut or grounded out. that could also do it. gl
     
  25. Btc89

    Btc89 Probationary Member

    25
    0
    Joined Aug 27, 2012
    Joshua, Texas
    I got it running today. I charged up the battery yesterday and it had enough juice to turn the engine over but, I could tell it was going dead so, today I charged it up for about 3 - 4 hours and I went outside and turn the key and it started. I don't really know how it started but, it did. I guess it was a low battery. Thank you all for helping me with this problem.
     

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