Starting issues - No / Doesn't / Won't Start - MERGED

[prodsm]

All "my car won't start" discussion threads are merged HERE. We've basically made it easier for those who insist upon not searching by grouping together all threads from those with similar issues so you can just scroll through and see some possible solutions. To search for info within this thread, use the "Search This Thread" feature in the black bar about 3" above what you're reading right now.

Could be anything from a loose battery terminal to internal engine damage, and literally everything in between which may involve the electrical, fuel, and ignition system...possibly even something that you screwed up while working on the car yourself. While it's unlikely we're going to diagnose and solve your problem over the internet, feel free to discuss any possible solutions.



I live in Canada and right now its not very warm out, about -30c
my car does not have a block heater too keep it warm.

I tryed to start my car this morning and it wouldent start, ive had this problem before but this time, the car doesnt crank at all it just makes a sound that sounds like an electric drill.

Whats wrong.

Thanks

 

[EagleTalonTim]

I know this is a little old, but to reply to the last post.... it sounds like your ECU is shot. I have had this happen before when the CEL would not come on when the key was first turned on and the engine would spin all day long, but would not start. You can check your ECU by removing it (Located behind the radio), opening it up, and looking for any bad capacitors or see if anything looks abnormal. You may even smell a slight burn smell if it got bad. Some DSM vendors may be able to salvage it, but it is not a guarantee. Hope you get it running!

 

[iguanahotsauce]

So I was given a 92 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD the other day but it is having some problems. First off it has been sitting for about 6 years now so that doesn't exactly help my situation. But the problem is that when I try and start it it will crank but it wont fire up. I am very new to working with cars and from what I have read I should check that I am getting fuel and that I am getting a spark. I know how to check if I am getting a spark or not but I am not sure how to check if I am getting fuel. Also if it ends up being the fuel pump or the fuel filter I am not sure where either of them are located. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

 

[ryan90tsiawd]

The fuel pump is on the drivers side rear of the car under the rear mat where the spare tire is located. On the 1st gen cars the key has to be in the start position for the fuel pump to turn on so you can have someone start the car while you are listening for the pump to turn on in the rear. You should be able to hear it pretty easily. You can take off the gas cap and put your ear up to it as well while someone is staring the car if you have trouble hearing it. The fuel pump relay is behind the radio near the ecu. make sure that the relay is clicking on as well

 

[gofer]

Check that the ECU is even functioning by just turning the key and watching the check engine light. If it doesn't illuminate at all your ECU needs replaced/reworked and if it illuminates and never shuts off you have a code (CEL), a normal functioning ECU will illuminate the CEL for approx. 5 seconds and then shut off.

To check for fuel you'd pull a fuel line off either end of the fuel rail and shove it into a gasoline container and then crank the engine over. If fuel is getting to the rail it will dump out of the fuel line fast even though your just turning the engine over, SO BE CAREFUL!
Since you just received the car for free (congrats btw) you might just pop the hood and look for any loose or broken connections on the wiring harness. A disconnected/cut wire going to the Coolant Temperature Sensor (CTS) can cause the car not to start and the wires there are very fragile, its located on your t-stat housing. You might also give it a good compression check and make sure that the timing is set correctly as well, use the service manual or this write-up to check the timing. 1g Timing Belt Alignment Check (VFAQ)

The fuel pump is in the tank and you'd access it from the trunk of your car on the driverside. The fuel filter is mounted on the firewall on the passenger side of the engine bay, just next to the battery.

Since you seem relatively BRAND NEW to DSM's first and foremost you need to download a 1g (92-94) Service Manual or go buy a Chilton/Haynes manual from a local auto parts store. If anymore questions come up, as I'm sure they will, there are plenty of threads around these forums that will have answers to them you've just got to do some research. Just click the YELLOW SEARCH tab at the top of the page and a drop down menu will appear and select "Search Forums" for whatever issue may have.

 

[ryan90tsiawd]

Oh and the fuel filter is on the firewall to the right of the battery if you are looking at the engine.

There is also 3 fuses located on the positive battery cable. Make sure to check them as well, and make sure the wires have not disconnected from the bottom of the fuse block

 

[AlaskanDsm]

Welcome to the DSM scene!

1) Go and buy yourself a Haynes or Chiltons service manual for your car.
2) Download the 1G service manual from online (multiple sources for best answers) http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/fre...tions/344490-download-1g-service-manuals.html
3) Make sure you familiarize yourself with the search function here as most problems have been encountered before and can probably be found with a little searching
4) Always checkout the tech forums here and VFAQ Site - Visual Frequently Answered Questions for tutorials and additional information.


Now that you have that information,

My recommendation before you sink anything into this car is to get a compression check done on the car. This will tell you is even in any condition to start. I believe the service level for our cars is 120PSI. Normal would probably be around 140-170 but shouldn't more than a 10psi variation between the highest and lowest numbers... roughly.

If the compression is good, I would follow up with changing the oil and filter as they are cheap insurance for a car sitting that long. I may even change the oil first just go get fresh oil, even if cheap oil in there and prime the system by removing the CAS plug or pull all the plug wires from the plugs and turn it over till you see pressure building on the gauge cluster.

At this point, You should check the plugs and may just replace them. See if by grounding a plug to a bolt, you get spark when turning the car over, if not investigate. if you get spark, move on to the fuel.

Make sure you have fuel at the rail and when you turn the key to start, you should hear the pump whine. I have not troubleshooted fuel issues before so I don't have much for you to go on as of now.

If all three are good, then the last thing for now would be to check and make sure that your timing is lined up properly. There are timing marks on your cam gears that have to line up horizontally and there is one on your crankshaft pulley that must line up with the mark on the timing cover at the same time.


Aww, took waaaaaay to long to respond due to being at work

 

[rlacasse1]

If you haven't already, go ahead and drain the tank and put fresh gas into it. That should help out your situation quite a bit.

 

[iguanahotsauce]

Yeah a buddy of mine who is a mechanic told me to drain the gas tank because it has probably gone bad. It still has about a quarter tank in it but I'm not sure how to drain it and is there a way for me to check the compression myself or does that need to be done at a shop?

 

[ryan90tsiawd]

You can rent a compression tool at almost any auto parts store

 

[iguanahotsauce]

So what I have found out today is:
It's not an ECU issue. I turned the key to the on position and the check engine light came on for about 5 seconds.
I was told by the guy I received the car from that it is not a spark issue. he said he checked to make sure it was sparking but I am going to check tomorrow when I can get someone to help me out.
I was also told that he checked the fuel filter but I will check that tomorrow as well. For anyone that has changed the fuel filter before is it easy to get to? I know that it's located to the right of the battery but if I pull out the battery will I have easy access to it or will it be kind of hard to get to?
I bought a 5 quart jug of oil and a new champ oil filter which I plan on putting in sometime later this week.
Also another question I have for gofer is where is the t-stat housing you told me to check?
I figure if it is not raining to bad over here I will run over to pick and pull and pull the fuel pump out of a 93 talon they have on their lot. What kind of tools am I going to need to get the fuel pump out? I plan on draining the fuel tank after I change the oil and then hopefully it will turn over *Fingers Crossed*
I also possibly need to get new rotors. Does anyone know how to tell if the rotors have gone bad? Oh and one more thing I can pick up a used battery from pick and pull for $30 (I can't get the core fee back because I don't currently have a battery in my car) or a reconditioned battery for $36. Would it be a bad idea to buy a used battery? A new one is going to set me back $67 plus a $10 core fee from walmart

 

[gofer]

Why pull a fuel pump if you don't even know whats causing it not to start? It could still be compression, timing, spark, or a disconnected sensor.
You said your hoping it will turn over meaning that its not even turning over when you try to start it OR you mean turn over as in start? If its not even turning over your looking at a entirely different set of problems than the ones that have been suggested above, thats why I ask.

 

[iguanahotsauce]

I meant turn over as in start. Right now you turn the key and all you hear is the starter going. I have checked the sparking, computer, and the ecu and they are all good and I'm going to check to see if the pump is working before I get a new one. Also do you know anything about how to remove a pump from a talon? Oh and you said I can see if I am getting fuel by pulling the line off of the fuel rail but where is the fuel rail? and I was reading up on what could be wrong before I posted on this forum and I found something that said to pull off the air inlet tube from the throttle body and spray in some starting fluid and try and start the car and if it starts then I have compression and spark but no fuel. Would that work to tell me if I have compression? Because I don't want to rent a compression tool if I don't have to cause I am already on a tight budget to fix this car =/

 

[Tyeler18]

Just to clarify, is the motor turning (like the pistons are moving)? Or is just the starter making noise?

 

[iguanahotsauce]

How do I tell if the motor is turning or it's just the starter?

 

[jimbob_843]

To check if the motor is turning over: get someone to turn the car over as you look just behind the drivers side front tire. There is gonna be a pulley with some belts on it. These are connected to you crankshaft and if they turn then the motor is turning over. Try spraying a little bit of parts cleaner into the throttle body and see if it tries to run. If so then yes you have a fuel issue. If not then most likely a spark issue. Check and see if the motor is turning then report back.

Maybe having a friend who is familiar with cars would help too. We are here to help but we can only help so much on here dude.

 

[iguanahotsauce]

Yeah I have a buddy who knows a decent amount about cars but he has been working 8 - 6 every day so hasn't been able to help much. He has given me some tips on what to check though. So where is the throttle body on a 92 talon? I think I found it today when I was checking stuff under the hood. It had a decent size hose on it and I could see the throttle cable on the back of it. The only problems I was having was I couldn't figure out how to get the throttle open and the top of it was curved so I wasn't sure if I sprayed some starter fluid in if it would make it into the throttle body

 

[AlaskanDsm]

a lot of the location of parts will be listed here.

Virtual Tour of the DSM Engine Bay - Top index

 

[iguanahotsauce]

Thanks AlaskanDsm that helped me find a lot of the parts I was looking for. Today I plan on checking to make sure the engine is turning and not just to starter, checking the fuel pump to see if it is working, checking the fuel filter if I can get to it, checking the fuel line to see if I get fuel (before I check the pump), checking for spark, putting some starting fluid in the throttle body to see if I can get it to start (This wont damage anything right?), and then after all that I plan on going to pick and pull and getting a fuel pump if mine is bad and some new hydraulics for the back window because mine don't work anymore =( and I was wondering would it be a bad idea to buy a used battery?

Ok so I checked and the motor is turning it is not just the starter, I am getting spark and compression but I'm not getting any fuel. So I'm pretty sure it is the pump. Does anyone know of a video that I can watch to show me how to remove the pump?

So I went to pick and pull today and didn't have any luck. The talon they had on their lot wasn't a turbo so the pump wouldn't work. I am looking at getting this one off of amazon
Amazon.com: Beck Arnley 152-0795 Fuel Pump - Electric: Automotive
can someone tell me if a beck arnley fuel pump is good? I can get one from costless auto parts in town but it is $90 so if this one off amazon will work that would be nice because it is only $40. Also if I am going to change the fuel pump is this all I am going to need or do I need something else yet. Haven't determined for sure if it is the pump or the filter yet so I will check tomorrow.

 

[Eagle_Phoenix]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=116231&stc=1&d=1292412297

HERE WE ARE DUDE, THIS IS A REVERSE ENGINEERING DID FOR ME! I JUST HOPE SOME FAIR SOUL PUT ME SOME PAYPAL FOR THIS JOB.

THE RESISTOR STRAIGHT ON PLCC44 "PIN 1" IS 22K, IF YOU INSTALL A 10K IT RESOLVE MANY PROBLEMS OF CRANKSHAFT SENSOR ...........

http://forums.openecu.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4876

 

[iguanahotsauce]

So I'm not sure if anyone is still reading this thread but I was wondering if there is a way to check the fuel pump without having to have the car running. I tried to get the fuel pump out to check it but I couldn't get the hose off of it. I hooked up the fuel pump test connector to 12v and got nothing but I might have done something wrong. What I am trying to find out is if it is actually the pump or if it is the relay

 

[Clinical]

Have you even checked the timing belt? It could have jumped teeth and bent valves, a reason a lot of them end tossed aside.

 

[iguanahotsauce]

The car starts when I put starting fluid in the throttle body so I know it's a fuel issue I just don't know if it is the pump or the relay

 

[AlaskanDsm]

I am sure if there was a way to provide direct power from the battery to the pump to bypass all the relays, it should in essence work but I am not sure how to go about doing that. You should also check craigslist in your area for a stock replacement pump or order one from mitsubishi graveyard.

Mitsubishi Graveyard

 

[thomcasey]

Have you emptied the tank? There is a 24 or 27MM bold on the drivers side of the tank bottom, at the back of the car. Put a pan underneath and drain that turpentine. Then, you MUST get the pump out and inspect it. 6 year old gas can and will start to rust stuff in there.

Here is an example of just over 7 year old gas.

 

[iguanahotsauce]

Yeah the pump was in pretty bad shape. I drained the tank and installed a new pump and it starts up now. Now what I need to do is figure out if the rotors and brake pads are still good. Also there is a belt that sequels really bad but I am not exactly sure which belt it is and I don't know if it needs to be replaced or if it will just go away after a while