small 16g or evoIII

[ShapeGSX]

I like boost creep.

 

[GRNDSM]

To answer your question, I wish everyone would man up and run the EVO 16g at 20-24psi, were it loves to be, and no one would have to worry about boost creep.

I definitely agree with you there! But many people buy them and expect to run 15psi. And those are the ones who end up with problems.

You can say that someone only wishing to run only 15-17psi really shouldn’t be removing their cat. But that is not many people think… They expect this turbo to be a true “bolt-on”, just like a small 16G. But we are finding out that it not, because it requires and external WG in many cases.

 

[Stoner]

I bought my evo 16g from slowboy with the 34mm flapper mod, I am also running and externally dumped O2 housing. When I purchased this turbo I was on the smic so boost was set around 17-18psi. I just got a fmic and I plan on turning up the boost, to around 20-22psi or whatever I get away with on pump without knock. I am wondering if I am going to have any trouble holding that much boost because of the 34mm flappper?

I hope not

 

[GRNDSM]

I just got a fmic and I plan on turning up the boost, to around 20-22psi or whatever I get away with on pump without knock. I am wondering if I am going to have any trouble holding that much boost because of the 34mm flappper?

We are talking about problems with holding LESS boost, not more…

But you are a good case, what kind of 3" exhaust are you running? With a cat?

Did you have any creep at 17psi?

Leon

 

[GPTourer]

I have the 34mm flapper mod from SB. When I had the car set at 18psi while on the dyno, I only saw it creep one time up to like 19/20ish. Out on the street, I never saw it creep, it would hold whatever boost setting I had it at. I have a 3" O2 Eliminator DP and Apex N-1 and test pipe. At one point in time during the hottest days of summer I would see it fade from 19 to about 17, but I attributed it to the stock IC becoming heat soaked (that was right before my HG let go too.) So now its cool, I have it set at 17, it holds 17 and hopefully Santa will bring me a Hahn FMIC for Crimmus. I hope I don't have any problems running/holding 20psi then - with the big flapper mod.

 

[pickens]

The E16g appears to only outshine the s16g when you really start pushing the limits of the turbo (i.e. >21-22psi). If you want to push the turbo to its limits all the time on race gas (i.e. lots of track days) then an E16g is more for you, but then if thats the case you should really go w/ a 20g size turbo. However, if you drive on the street on pump gas alot more than you race then a s16g is better suited for you because A) less creep to deal with B) better performance at <20psi C) did I say less creep to deal with already.

FYI- my "small" 16g will only hold about 24psi.

 

[gixrman]

Thank god I can still get 98 octane from Sunoco around here, you poor CA guys with 91

My evo16g loves anything above 20psi. pulls really hard. And my homemade frankinstien j-tube.

 

[ShapeGSX]

The E16g appears to only outshine the s16g when you really start pushing the limits of the turbo (i.e. >21-22psi). If you want to push the turbo to its limits all the time on race gas (i.e. lots of track days) then an E16g is more for you, but then if thats the case you should really go w/ a 20g size turbo. However, if you drive on the street on pump gas alot more than you race then a s16g is better suited for you because A) less creep to deal with B) better performance at <20psi C) did I say less creep to deal with already.

I think that performance is better with the Evo III 16G than the small 16G below 20psi, personally. The efficiency islands of the Evo III 16G are much larger than those of the Big 16G. It is a pretty efficient turbo.

 

[pneumo]

I think that performance is better with the Evo III 16G than the small 16G below 20psi, personally. The efficiency islands of the Evo III 16G are much larger than those of the Big 16G. It is a pretty efficient turbo.

Could you post a link to the compressor map of the Evo III 16G? I haven't seen one yet. Thanks.

 

[ShapeGSX]

Here you go:

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[pneumo]

Thanks. The map looks very nice. Converting kg/sec to lbs/min it looks like the E16g outflows a big 16g by far. 35 lb/min is roughly equal to 0.266 kg/sec.

 

[Stoner]

We are talking about problems with holding LESS boost, not more…

But you are a good case, what kind of 3" exhaust are you running? With a cat?

Did you have any creep at 17psi?

Leon

3" dp 2.5" cat back, NO cat. During summer months I had zero boost creep, but for some reason the cooler fall nights (cooler than 40 deg.) I would get creep to around 21psi. I was told that cold weather can cause boost creep.

 

[GRNDSM]

3" dp 2.5" cat back, NO cat. During summer months I had zero boost creep, but for some reason the cooler fall nights (cooler than 40 deg.) I would get creep to around 21psi. I was told that cold weather can cause boost creep.

Thanks for this point of reference!

You are correct, boost creep does gets worse in cold weather. So this problem should become much worse in the next few weeks...

So you are creeping to 21psi with a 2.5" cat back! 21psi is actually not too bad, if you have a proper fuel system. But imagine what it would be like if you had a 3" cat back?

Leon

 

[na90dsm]

what size exhaust to you recomend for a evoIII 16g. would 2.5 or 3 inch be better. say its also set at 22 psi

 

[Larry L]

hey all I was wondering if you guys could answer a few questions for me when I upgrade the turbo in the near future which turbo is more similar appearance to the stock t25. Also performance wise....between the 16g and the evo III

Its the stock appearance you want with the performance of the 16G right. Any skilled turbo shop can take your T-25 and bore out the compressor housing to fit the T-28 wheel, just get an agressive exhaust wheel. And then port the shit out of it. If your in Southern California I suggest Performance Techniques in San Bernardino

 

[jmakado]

As far as creep on the E16g: I run a 2.5" tubular o2 housing with wastegate gasses rerouted back in and can run as low as 15psi. with a 3" o2 back and no cat. The tubular flows better than a ported o2 housing and helps prevent creep. It's one of those things that is win-win because it can help control your boost creep now and give you better flow down the road when you start needing/wanting more flow. I prefer the rerouted wastegate tube as I like a quiet car when on public roads but routes in far enough down that it *probably* controls creep as well as an atmosphere dump.

 

[evotuner]

Thanks for this point of reference!

You are correct, boost creep does gets worse in cold weather. So this problem should become much worse in the next few weeks...

So you are creeping to 21psi with a 2.5" cat back! 21psi is actually not too bad, if you have a proper fuel system. But imagine what it would be like if you had a 3" cat back?

Leon

Thought I'd chime in on this, I have heard from numerous people about creep with the SBR E16G. I don't know if there is a difference, but I have a FP E16G, sent it to AMS for porting/34mm flapper, and I have zero creep as long as I am running 15psi or more. This is with a 3" AMS downpipe and 3" Thermal exhaust.

I too have ran a solid 26 psi on the E16G, and I agree with Nate from SBR that the Evo doesn't really wake up until 22+psi.

 

[jmakado]

I too have ran a solid 26 psi on the E16G, and I agree with Nate from SBR that the Evo doesn't really wake up until 22+psi.

I ran a small 16g before the E16g and managed 320AWHP with it at 20psi. The E16g is only at 17psi. right now and I'm back on stock injectors with no fuel control and it pulls harder than the car with the previous 320HP setup. So even though it is sweet at higher boost levels it is STILL an upgrade over the small 16g at lower boost levels. Eventually I will of course be running it at higher but I just wanted to make sure I put this info out there. Also, It spools QUICKER than my small 16g. I get 17psi. at 3k in 3rd gear and think 20psi would happen equally as quick. The small took until 3300k to get to 20psi. The transient response is also amazing. Floor it in any gear and you have instant boost. Much like a t-25 on the highway and around town. I know I sound like a total cheerleader right now but I can't stress enough how much better it is than the small 16g.

 

[WhiteCloud]

Jmakado, you're running 17 psi on stock injectors, and no fuel control? Are you logging at all? What kind of fuel pump?

I just picked up a EvoIII 16g, logger, and S-AFC II, and I'm planning on running about 14 lbs. of boost for starters on stock fuel equipment and stock sidemount. Just wondering if you're seeing problems arising from running that high of boost without fuel mods...

 

[Revolution]

For every lover their will always be a hater. In most cases guys and girls will want a turbo they could drive on the street (17psi) and occasionally run at the track (23psi) and maybe autocross with (19psi).

I defenitally vouch for the evo3 16g , I dont know if it's the same turbo as the evo 8 but from my understanding the evo 3 16g was the biggest turbo that ever came on the evo.

In accordance to what many people have said the evo does come to life after 22 psi but to run that much boost make shure the rest of the car is up to it. When I first started racing I posted a 13.6 with my t-25 a tank of race gas and 25 plus psi, needless to say I blew the turbo.

Before my manifolds and injectors on 94 pump gas my evo turbo braught me to a 13.8 quarter mile run. That to me said alot because My car had some weight and I didnt give it as good as I should have. My evo turbo is not ported nor clipped so at 17 psi of daily driving I see no boost creep what so ever .

I will say that after all my delemas I would still pick the evo over a bigger turbo just because with the RIGHT SUPPORTING modds I can appreciate a thourough power curve that starts haulling ass and never looks back.

I never ment my car to be a 1320 race monstor and have all the bragging rights that came with it , all I ever wanted was a tripple crown . A car that could post some very serious numbers in the 1320 , take corners without dropping out of boost , and finally and most importantly take me to and from work and my daily jaunts.

If you give the evo turbo enough breathing room it will stretch it's legs and take you for a wild ride. Now Im not saying go out and copy my mods list , but realize what you want from the car and the turbo, at the end of the day if you want something to take you from point a-b and thats all stick with the t25 and get you'r self a copy of superstreet. If anything i said sparks you'r interest get the evo 16g turbo , imho the most diverse turbo out their.

 

[Revolution]

Well my car will be down for an unprecidented amount of time wich gives me a little room to play with. I have been trying to do my research on alot of different topics like lsd's, wider tires , and extruded honing . Now after reading two pages worth of honing posts I realized that a few tuners here knew what they were talking about and the rest ,well are blind to the crowd.

So im going to ask the right questions to draw out a conclusion ,porting vs. honing.
Now every post ironically has been about intake and exhaust manifolds wich I think is ubsurde ,until one indavidual hit it right on the money.

My thoughts have always been that porting a turbine housing was wrong ,why? Think about it, by porting out the housing you'r ultimately changing the path of air and how the air should flow.

I dont care if you've been porting for 20 some odd years their is no such thing as a flawless port job. Now comes in honing by doing this process the idea would be to evenly open up the passeges of the turbine housing by following the direction the air would flow through thus creating a less restrictive path.

Heres my problem after reading two pages ,I have not come across one person whose done it, I was hoping that maybe someone ,a vendor ,a wise man some one could chim in on this topic of honing a turbine housing.


Ok this is by no means stealling this thread but just adding to it. We have clearly declared the evo 316g turbo to be more effeciant over all ,compared to the t-28,s16gand b16g.

But I want to take it a step further and make this the ultimate e16g thread, what if the evo housing was honed what type of pro's and cons would this have?

Why not just buy an extream psi ported 16g? Easy read again about human error and the delicasy that is airflow in the heart of you'r powerplant.

How can we improve the 16g ? And guys can we plz move away from the flapper theories and practices , it's been worked to death.

I am always thinking about how to improve little things in the powerplant to make big improvments,and this little thing has the potential to be big.

Thanx guys in advance

 

[pboglio]

The biggest gain in porting is softening the radius of the runners as they take a hard 90* bend and dump into the manifold collector. Porting the turbine housing is usually done to port match to the ported exhaust manifold. Guys go one step further and use this as a chance to polish out the surface roughness of the turbine housing throat, kinda like a half way extrude hone job.

I suppose extrude honing could knock off that sharp corner on the turbine housing volute right where the exhaust turns a sharp 90* corner onto the exhaust wheel. The exhaust flow is trying to turn a sharp creased 90* bend at over 1000 ft/s, I'm sure there is a couple psi of pressure drop waiting to be removed here. Polishing out the surface roughness has to be a much more minimal benefit though.

This is not a new idea as far as turbine housings goes. One of Buschurs secrets many years ago on his own 20g was an extrude honed compressor & turbine housing. You should try it and let everyone else know how it goes. I think extrude hone is like $200 per piece or something like that. Start a new thread though, just as a courtesy to the original poster. Cheers.

 

[Talonman]

anyone got a map for a mitsu 18G w/TDO5H turbine wheel? I got one freshly rebuilt by Forced Performance for a great price with 34mm flapper and ported turbine and comp housings. The inlet where the intake slides on was larger in diameter, I had to really fight the silicone coupler to get it on the turbo from the intake pipe whereas it used to slide onto the 14b very easily, also the walls around where the intake is look alot thinner and polished compared to 16gs Ive seen. The 34mm flapper works great I can hold 15 psi with 2.5 tubular 02 housing to a catless 3" back exhaust. Im tuning for 20 psi on pump and wonder what an efficient psi on race gas would be for the 18g. Ive seen from the dsmtimes page that some evo3's and big 16's have run quicker but every 18g is above 117mph, better top end slower spool? I gotta say this 18g with the pacesetter header Im running and tubular 02 spools 300 rpm quicker than my stock 14b/mani did I hit 19psi by 2900rpm in 3rd gear. Any info or comment on the 18g is appreciated, I called FP but they really wouldnt commit to saying which turbo (e316g or 18g) was better, ie. which flows more, which makes more hp. He just said (and I realize) it depends on your mods and where in the rev band each turbo "makes" thier power, so any first hand info is appreciated.