small 16g or evoIII

[GPTourer]

The original question was which one was more stock appearing a 16G or a E16G. The answer is neither. Anybody with any experience with DSMs is going to know something is up if they see a j-pipe on a 2G. The Evo3 is a better choice over the 16g and the b16g, fwiw.

If you use a stock 1g j-pipe, Wont you need to get a longer licp? Just get a t04b? it's bolt on, almost the same price.. and all's you need is new oil lines.

To make things work right, look decent and stay put I used a j-pipe and a new longer lower icp from RRE. So it isn't so easy to get around using an install kit, but I really tried. I wish I had just ponied up and got the complete kit and instead of trying to piece one together to save money. I ended up wasting time, getting frustrated and probably spent more on extra shipping. The only thing I hacked were the coolant lines (swapped back to front and one lengthend) You will need a 7cm2 gasket, new oil feed line (mine is stainless steel and goes all the way from the filter to the turbo) and I got new studs because and old one broke during the install.

 

[Stapl3]

Nah, just flip the stock lower pipe and it goes right up.

 

[pickens]

Small 16g hands down. I think this is the most underrated turbo out there. The compressor wheel is perfectly matched with the compressor housing resulting in a wide, outstanding efficiency range. I can only comment on the small 16g since I have one though. Never been in an evo 16g powered car. I am completely satisfied with my lil' 16g performance. On pump gas, it has more than enugh power for daily driving and the occasional race. On race gas, the car really moves. Of course its not 20g or 50trim performance levels, but definately impressive for a lil guy.

 

[NewB2dsm]

Small 16g hands down. I think this is the most underrated turbo out there. The compressor wheel is perfectly matched with the compressor housing resulting in a wide, outstanding efficiency range. I can only comment on the small 16g since I have one though. Never been in an evo 16g powered car. I am completely satisfied with my lil' 16g performance. On pump gas, it has more than enugh power for daily driving and the occasional race. On race gas, the car really moves. Of course its not 20g or 50trim performance levels, but definately impressive for a lil guy.

Please ignore what this guys says. Evo 16g IS better than the small. The evo flows 2lb min less than a 20g and people have gone into the 11's pretty easy on the evo 16g.

Sure the small is a good turbo, i think iv proved that to myself and locals time and time again, but the evo will make more power than the small nuff' said.

 

[BrokenTsi]

go 14b. i run 12's on it all day long. yeah, but anyways, i would never waste my money on a s16g, or any 16g.......... my first turbo upgrade is going to be a 60trim.

 

[Stoner]

Nah, just flip the stock lower pipe and it goes right up.

You may have had better luck than me but I tried using a 1g j-pipe and flipping around the stock licp and it was not long enough.

I would suggest going with the dejon tool licp for a 2g with a 16g style turbo. It will run you about 125 buck but then you dont need to buy a j-pipe and you get a hard licp from the turbo to the smic. Reuse your water lines, buy a 7cm gasket and a s/s oil supply line from slow boy racing and you should be set.

Here is also another vote for the E3B16g, for the price why not get the best one you can its only like 60 dollars more than the small 16g.

 

[UPGRADED2G]

this is just the info i needed. Im getting a used s16g ported and clipped with about 2000 miles on it, plus a ported manifold and gasket for $450. I was told i can run stock boost on my stock injectors w/255lph pump and AFC.......should be good for about 280 whp at least.

 

[kraka]

Extreme PSI's ad here looks pretty damn good...$620 for a ported EvoIII with the 34mm flapper; or just 565 for just a evoIII...take the peoples advice here on how to make your own install kit and save yourself the $120 to put into fuel mods later on

 

[Stoner]

Extreme PSI's ad here looks pretty damn good...$620 for a ported EvoIII with the 34mm flapper; or just 565 for just a evoIII...take the peoples advice here on how to make your own install kit and save yourself the $120 to put into fuel mods later on

Definately go with the 34mm flapper now because if you dont you will wish that you did later

 

[NewB2dsm]

Definately go with the 34mm flapper now because if you dont you will wish that you did later

if you are going to run low boost yes, if not stock flapper is just fine. I wish i would NOT have done the 34mm flapper on my turbo.

 

[Stapl3]

The flapper mod will hurt you if you try to run that turbo for all it's worth. Since most people don't, I suggest you go for it.

 

[ShapeGSX]

Small 16g hands down. I think this is the most underrated turbo out there. The compressor wheel is perfectly matched with the compressor housing resulting in a wide, outstanding efficiency range. I can only comment on the small 16g since I have one though. Never been in an evo 16g powered car. I am completely satisfied with my lil' 16g performance. On pump gas, it has more than enugh power for daily driving and the occasional race. On race gas, the car really moves. Of course its not 20g or 50trim performance levels, but definately impressive for a lil guy.

I have had both turbos. The Evo III 16G completely blows the small 16G away. Period. The Evo III 16G is pretty close to 20G performance levels. But I agree with you that the small 16G is not.

 

[GPTourer]

I wonder how it would do in a head to head test with FP's Sleeper 16G.

 

[IMMORTALSPYDER]

On the comparison earlier between the E316G and the BT28- They both are rated at 380hp and 550cfm

 

[ShapeGSX]

On the comparison earlier between the E316G and the BT28- They both are rated at 380hp and 550cfm

Unless you ask Forced Performance.

 

[GRNDSM]

Definately go with the 34mm flapper now because if you dont you will wish that you did later

Definitely go with the larger flapper... if you have nothing better to do with your money!

You simply CAN NOT utilize the 34 mm flapper on EVO 16G housing! You can physically install it, but what then? You can not port it to take advantage of what this valve has to offer. Instead, you have a standard ported opening and then a LARGER valve blocking the path of the exhaust gases.

My recommendation: if you get EVO 16G, stick with a port job around a standard flapper valve!

As for the rest of the Small vs. EVO 16G argument. It is not as simple as most people make it out to be…

EVO 16G is definitely a much better flowing turbo! No one can argue with this! It offers the best performance per $ of any other turbo. However, that is not always a good thing… A well tuned EVO 16G car, with an open exhaust, will have a lot of boost creep issues!

You can avoid this boost creep by a couple of very effective methods:

- Go with an external WG – works great, but will cost you $250-$700 more.

- Restrict your exhaust flow by installing a cat. That also works OK but kind of defeats the purpose. At that point why go with this larger flowing turbo, just to choke it?

- Upgraded O2 housings work on some cars, but they do not work in ALL cases, so I do not consider them as good options.

So my advise would be a bit more complicated, I do believe that a Small 16G is a BETTER turbo in SOME situations. And you haven’t really given me enough information to tell you which one I would recommend.

 

[lowridin2g]

Small 16g hands down. I think this is the most underrated turbo out there. The compressor wheel is perfectly matched with the compressor housing resulting in a wide, outstanding efficiency range. I can only comment on the small 16g since I have one though. Never been in an evo 16g powered car. I am completely satisfied with my lil' 16g performance. On pump gas, it has more than enugh power for daily driving and the occasional race. On race gas, the car really moves. Of course its not 20g or 50trim performance levels, but definately impressive for a lil guy.

a big reason for this pickens i would have to say is that the word "SMALL" in front of 16g. right there, that one word not only steers alot of people away from the turbo, but people automatically think it is not a potent turbo cause it is "small" just food for thought.

 

[ShapeGSX]

I ran a best mph of around 112mph with the small 16G on my car.

Since I bolted on the Evo III 16G, I have run a best of 118.02mph.

Best airflow of 36lb/min with the small 16G on my car.

Best airflow of 44.1lb/min with the Evo III 16G on my car.

And the Evo III spools about the same as the small. They are close enough that I never noticed a difference in spoolup. But damn does the Evo pull on the top end compared to the small.

 

[red91gst]

Definitely go with the larger flapper... if you have nothing better to do with your money!

You simply CAN NOT utilize the 34 mm flapper on EVO 16G housing! You can physically install it, but what then? You can not port it to take advantage of what this valve has to offer. Instead, you have a standard ported opening and then a LARGER valve blocking the path of the exhaust gases.

My recommendation: if you get EVO 16G, stick with a port job around a standard flapper valve!

As for the rest of the Small vs. EVO 16G argument. It is not as simple as most people make it out to be…

EVO 16G is definitely a much better flowing turbo! No one can argue with this! It offers the best performance per $ of any other turbo. However, that is not always a good thing… A well tuned EVO 16G car, with an open exhaust, will have a lot of boost creep issues!

You can avoid this boost creep by a couple of very effective methods:

- Go with an external WG – works great, but will cost you $250-$700 more.

- Restrict your exhaust flow by installing a cat. That also works OK but kind of defeats the purpose. At that point why go with this larger flowing turbo, just to choke it?

- Upgraded O2 housings work on some cars, but they do not work in ALL cases, so I do not consider them as good options.

So my advise would be a bit more complicated, I do believe that a Small 16G is a BETTER turbo in SOME situations. And you haven’t really given me enough information to tell you which one I would recommend.

To add to Leons post, we've found the 34mm flapper DOES help a great deal with boost creep, but only if done correctly. We not only install the bigger valve but we open the w/g passage up on the mill. If you dont, its just creating a restriction in the w/g passage.

Again, we recommend this mod for anyone running under 17psi, anything more and it is really not needed.

If I had to choose, I'd go EVO16.

Nate
SBR

 

[GRNDSM]

>Since I bolted on the Evo III 16G, I have run a best of 118.02mph.

Right, and better tuning had nothing to do with it, right?

>We not only install the bigger valve but we open the w/g passage up on the mill.

How much material do you leave in that housing after this port job? (I am talking about wall thickness). You only have so much material that can be removed .

Leon

 

[16g Spoolin TSi]

Again, we recommend this mod for anyone running under 17psi, anything more and it is really not needed.
SBR

So above 17psi the bigger flapper is useless and would a o2 dump be almost like a replacement for a bigger flapper? is it recommended to run the E16g over 17psi, what do most people run them at?
~Johnny

 

[ShapeGSX]

>Since I bolted on the Evo III 16G, I have run a best of 118.02mph.

Right, and better tuning had nothing to do with it, right?

I'm always striving to tune better. But I ran that mph just a month after bolting the sucker on. And I had the small 16G on before that. I don't think I was tuning any differently. I just ran a ton more boost with it because it could actually hold the boost. I don't think a small 16G is going to hold 26psi. At least, I've never heard of one doing so. The turbo was the bulk of the improvement.

 

[red91gst]

So above 17psi the bigger flapper is useless and would a o2 dump be almost like a replacement for a bigger flapper? is it recommended to run the E16g over 17psi, what do most people run them at?
~Johnny

An O2 dump is not a replacment for a bigger flapper door, it just doesnt work that way.

To answer your question, I wish everyone would man up and run the EVO 16g at 20-24psi, were it loves to be, and no one would have to worry about boost creep.


My 2 cents.

Nate
SBR

 

[red91gst]

>Since I bolted on the Evo III 16G, I have run a best of 118.02mph.

Right, and better tuning had nothing to do with it, right?

>We not only install the bigger valve but we open the w/g passage up on the mill.

How much material do you leave in that housing after this port job? (I am talking about wall thickness). You only have so much material that can be removed .

Leon

I'm not sure exactly were your going with this. Yes, the evo does have a thinner wall than a standard 7cm housing, but there is still enough material there to be removed and make it worth while installing the bigger flapper.

Bottom line is we tried it, we liked it, and it works for us, although the naburrr boys may say otherwise.

Nate
SBR

 

[GRNDSM]

I am also speaking from personal experience, I am sure that we have not seen as many EVO 16Gs as you have, but we have been having a serious problem keeping them from creeping! And this problem is especially bad on well tuned 2G motors.

The only thing that we found to work reliably is going to an external WG.

I only ported and installed two 34 mm valves on EVO16G turbos and Chris also have done a few. In both of my turbos, customer insisted on having it done despite my objection, so I did it. But I am not going to do another one…

I am convinced that you can not SAFELY remove enough material from EVO 16G housing to take advantage of a 34 mm valve. I suppose you can open up that hole to around 32mm, but then, you only have just under 1mm (.039”) of wall thickness remaining.

I know that this turbo housing is made form much better and more stable material. IMHO, it is still going to crack with-in 12 months or so if you leave it that thin. And unlike a beefy “regular” 16G housing, a crack in that area, on EVO 16G housing is bad news...

Leon