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Removed dizzy and now i can't get the timing right? Please help

Posted by Bugadddiction71, Aug 28, 2018

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  1. Bugadddiction71

    Bugadddiction71 Probationary Member

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    ok i have a 1993 4g37 1.8. had to rebuild the head and the machine shop took the dizzy out and now i cant get it to time back right. motor runs! all timing mark are right but the motor is not running right. the lowest i can get the timing down to 5' after and it acts like i doesn't want advance or retard at anytime. AHHHHHH! i dont know whats going on!!!!!! please someone help me!!!
     
  2. rEclipserGST

    rEclipserGST Supporting Member

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    Maybe flip it around 180 degrees. Are you using a timing light? How are you verifying timing?

    And what is a dizzy?
     

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  3. Bugadddiction71

    Bugadddiction71 Probationary Member

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    distributor= dizzy. im using a timing light. with all the timing marks lined up. i have to back the dizzy all the way back just to get it to back down to 5 degrees after tdc. i like i said all the timing marks line up. if i take the timing light and flash it on the cam gear the dot is one tooth after tdc mark when running. im lost!!!!!
     
  4. pauleyman

    pauleyman DSM Wiseman

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    The distributor is likely installed incorrectly. It must line up at a certain point when the timing Mark's are lined up. Lookup the procedures. Seems you already know your problem.
     

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  5. ChessmoDSM

    ChessmoDSM Proven Member

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    And PLEASE quit using the term "dizzy" it sounds like you are a DJ coming off of a 2 week binge...
     

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  6. Bugadddiction71

    Bugadddiction71 Probationary Member

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    Sorry i'm lazy and don't feel like spelling it out. I feel my distributor is missed up. i lined the dot on the gear with the dash about 2oclock on the distributor with crank on tdc and cam on tdc. all the marks line up. even when i drop the distributor in the rotor lines up with number 1 on the cap. could i have 1 and 3 mixed on the cam or crank(timing belt). would that make it run like 10-15 degrees after tdc at idle if the line on the distributor is in the center of the hold down stud. its running but like poop-poop. super super slugish!!!! Ive built old bugs for years. and done 100 timing belt on all different types of cars. but this is the first dsm ive touched and its driving me nutz!!!!!!
     
  7. rEclipserGST

    rEclipserGST Supporting Member

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    Did you flip it around?
     

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  8. Bugadddiction71

    Bugadddiction71 Probationary Member

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    not yet doing it today when im at work let you know.should i just flip the wires or the rotor?
     
  9. arrowhead

    arrowhead Proven Member

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    You have to do it with your rotor to bring it all the way 180*, you are now 180* out. You could also do it with your wires but it may not look right.
     

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  10. Bugadddiction71

    Bugadddiction71 Probationary Member

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    did it. nothing. didnt even try to start. damn it im going to buy a new distributor for it. maybe one of the modules has gone bad or something
     
  11. JS4G63

    JS4G63 Supporting Member

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    I haven't gotten bizzy with a dizzy for a mizzy now, but isn't there supposed to be a vacuum hizzy that influences base timing somehow? Sure that's hooked up?
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2018

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  12. pauleyman

    pauleyman DSM Wiseman

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    Why on earth would you guys think you can rotate a distributor 180 degrees? This isn't a cam angle sensor.
     

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  13. JS4G63

    JS4G63 Supporting Member

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    I think they mean rotate the shaft, not the body,180 degrees... with it disengaged from the drive gear, and then to reinstall. The dizz-meister-9000 can be 180* out of phase due to the shaft position, i *THINK*.

    I'm lazy and don't feel like giving real answers so I'll ask questions instead. Are you SURE your engine was at top-dead-center and not the exact oppposite of TDC? That piston can be all the way at the top, and still not be @ TDC.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2018

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  14. Bugadddiction71

    Bugadddiction71 Probationary Member

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    timing marks all in the right spot after i replaced the head. when i put the crank pully on the crank the notch on the pully lined up with the timing cover marks!
    there is no vaccuum on the distributor. all electric!
     
  15. JS4G63

    JS4G63 Supporting Member

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    So you aligned all the timing marks on the block and head. And you said there was a timing/alignment mark on the distributor driven gear too? What is it supposed to match up to? Are you working out of a repair manual or just wingin' this one?

    Having never seen this engine myself, I am just brainstorming here.

    Seems to me that the engine time is probably correct, but the distributor may be out of time with the rest of the engine due to being clocked/indexed incorrectly upon installation. If the engine mechanical time is not off by a belt tooth, then something else has to be off by one/more of its teeth. OR, like you suggested, something electronic in the dizzzzzz has failed.

    The cheapest thing to do first is to remove and reinstall the distributor according to the manufacturer's instructions, making absolutely sure you're setting timing on the dizzz itself properly, and in-time with the engine mechanics. You don't have to order anything or wait to do that troubleshooting step.

    I doubt the distributor is physically defective, so unless you can verify that it is electrically defective I wouldn't replace it until you can source a known-good spare unit to test on your car. There should be a procedure for testing the dizzz electronics in the factory shop manual for the car.
     

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  16. jakk220

    jakk220 Proven Member

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    Check your spark plug wires and make sure they are in the right order. I had a friend hook them up backwards before because he was used to working on his Evo. Car ran (not great but it did idle and rev) but I could not get the timing to adjust right because the timing light was technically on Cyl 4 wire.
     

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  17. JS4G63

    JS4G63 Supporting Member

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    Disclaimer: I haven't DSM'd for 9 years and I'm sure I've forgotten things since then.

    RM66u39.png

    Did you ground the timing diag pin when you were trying to set base timing?
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2018

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  18. arrowhead

    arrowhead Proven Member

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    That is why I said to do it with the rotor
     

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  19. pauleyman

    pauleyman DSM Wiseman

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    It's still wrong
     

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  20. arrowhead

    arrowhead Proven Member

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    Could you explain why you think it is wrong, I may be missing something in your procedure.
    If you are 180* out, you pull dist out you turn the rotor to bring it to #1 cylinder mark on cap or wire position, then move dist left or right depending if dist is in front or rear of engine, all of this with #1 cyl on TDC, that is the case on most engines.
    Of course you have exceptions like a FIAT 4 cyl where you time with #4 cyl.
     

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  21. pauleyman

    pauleyman DSM Wiseman

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    Car shouldn't run or try to at 180 out. My point was simply removing and turning 180 wont fix the problem. There are marks and procedures outlined and the op should follow them. Installing a distributor is very very easy. No guesswork required.
     

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  22. pauleyman

    pauleyman DSM Wiseman

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    This is what you need.
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/download-the-1g-service-manuals.344490/
     

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  23. arrowhead

    arrowhead Proven Member

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    Agreed 100%, it is not going to run at all.
    OP insist that all marks are aligned and engine on tdc, but maybe it is not on compression.
     

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  24. Bugadddiction71

    Bugadddiction71 Probationary Member

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    can anybody show me a real picture of what im supost to ground to set this da-gon timing. looked at the picture in the manual. cant firgure out what im suppost to ground
     
  25. Bugadddiction71

    Bugadddiction71 Probationary Member

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    Ok found where the connectors are but dont know which one it is connector. is it the one with 1(yellow-red stripe wire) or the connector with 5 wires going into it. if its the 5 wire what wire do i ground? the picture in the manual suck!!!!!!!!
     

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