recommended race head?

[cory51191]

any race heads that are highly recommended?

willing to spend around $1,500 on it (with good aftermarket springs, valves, etc.)

shooting for around 500whp. DD.

dumb question but i never looked into aftermarket heads/swapping heads...
can u turn a 7-bolt into a 6-bolt by switching the head?

thank u

 

[Calan]

Maybe a bit off base here, but you should be able to hit 500hp reliably without spending anywhere near $1500 on a head.

 

[1gDSM4g63]

All you really is springs and retainers to go with bigger cams like Kiggly or Manley springs. I have made 480-490 whp on the DSMlink log on only Manley springs and 280 cams.

 

[jrohner]

Stock head for 500hp, just some decent cams, springs if you feel like it.

can u turn a 7-bolt into a 6-bolt by switching the head?

No offense, but what are you smoking? The head has nothing to do with that; a 6-bolt has 6 bolts holding the flywheel to the crankshaft. Guess how many a 7-bolt engine has?

 

[Calan]

...a 6-bolt has 6 bolts holding the flywheel to the crankshaft. Guess how many a 7-bolt engine has?

Can I play?

I'm going with 8.

 

[BogusSVO]

you can put the 7bolt (2g) head on a 6bolt block (1g) if you want smaller cross section intake runners... but you will need the matching intake.

 

[cory51191]

you can put the 7bolt (2g) head on a 6bolt block (1g) if you want smaller cross section intake runners... but you will need the matching intake.

thank u for not being a wise ass and pretty much answering my question.

now i don't feel so stupid, because my idea (but the other way around) has clearly already been done

All you really is springs and retainers to go with bigger cams like Kiggly or Manley springs. I have made 480-490 whp on the DSMlink log on only Manley springs and 280 cams.

so your saying aftermarket camshafts, springs, retainers and something to tune with will get 480-490whp? what about a FMIC? or intake, exhaust, intake mani, exhaust mani, fuel system, even the turbo... all stock? doesn't sound right.




i've done a lot of research about upgrading the 4g63 but what i can't figure out is: what is the best way to get 500awhp out of the 4g63?

i figured i'm gonna (in order): something to tune with, upgraded fuel system, fmic, turboback exhaust, aftermarket o2 with external waste gate, upgraded exhaust mani and HX35 (maybe HX35/40) turbo. that should do the trick right?

 

[Calan]

thank u for not being a wise ass and pretty much answering my question.

Hey...we were helpful... that was just a little hard to resist.

But yeah... $1500 would get you a head that would support WAY more than 500hp. Spend $700 on some cams and springs, and sink the other $800 into other goodies...or save it for the stuff you're gonna break at 500hp.

EDIT:

Just read your updated post... No offense, but I don't think you are anywhere near worrying about a $1500 head. Start here.

 

[cory51191]

Hey...we were helpful... that was just a little hard to resist.

But yeah... $1500 would get you a head that would support WAY more than 500hp. Spend $700 on some cams and springs, and sink the other $800 into other goodies...or save it for the stuff you're gonna break at 500hp.

EDIT:

Just read your updated post... No offense, but I don't think you are anywhere near worrying about a $1500 head. Start here.

i've looked at that link a million times (basic HP upgrades) . should i follow that specific path in order? what about internals? it doesn't say anything about them so im' wondering what else its not telling me

 

[Calan]

Yep... follow the path.

You'll gain power at about the same pace that your experience and pocket book can keep up with. It's proven and there for a reason.

If your motor is in good shape (compression check and other tests will tell you), you won't need to worry about the bottom end until you get up into the 400-500 hp range...even more with a 6-bolt (not sure which you're running). Stock 6-bolt bottom ends have hit 600hp many times.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but if you are asking "can u turn a 7-bolt into a 6-bolt by switching the head", and you plan on hitting 500hp right off the bat, you are going to spend a LOT more money on fixing things than you are on go fast parts...and will likely still not hit 500hp anytime soon. You're knowledge needs to grow along with the car, or else you are in for a very frustrating journey.

 

[cory51191]

Yep... follow the path.

You'll gain power at about the same pace that your experience and pocket book can keep up with. It's proven and there for a reason.

If your motor is in good shape (compression check and other tests will tell you), you won't need to worry about the bottom end until you get up into the 400-500 hp range...even more with a 6-bolt (not sure which you're running). Stock 6-bolt bottom ends have hit 600hp many times.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but if you are asking "can u turn a 7-bolt into a 6-bolt by switching the head" and planning on hitting 500hp right off the bat, you are going to spend a LOT more money on fixing things than you are on go fast parts...and will likely still not hit 500hp anytime soon. You're knowledge needs to grow along with the car, or else you are in for a very frustrating journey.

1. whats the MAF and translator about? what do they do? i can't find this info with the search button

2. i also can't find...how many RPM can a stock head handle? (don't know if these internals will make a difference but: eagle h-beam rods, forged pistons, beehive spring/retainer kit, BC 272 cams)

3. this is a quote from the upgrade path section "If you choose to go with a "turbo-back" exhaust system, this housing will automatically be replaced."... but i once read on a thread that "a true turbo-back still has an O2". whats the right answer?

 

[Calan]

Slow down there kimosabe...

You need to find a comfy chair, a gallon of your favorite beverage, and just start reading. A quick search on "MAF" turned up 500 threads on this forum alone, all with useful information.

Not trying to be an ass... but just start searching and reading. You'll be surprised how many of your questions will be answered, and within a day or three you'll have a much better idea of where you want to go and how to get there.

 

[cory51191]

Slow down there kimosabe...

You need to find a comfy chair, a gallon of your favorite beverage, and just start reading. A quick search on "MAF" turned up 500 threads on this forum alone, all with useful information.

Not trying to be an ass... but just start searching and reading. You'll be surprised how many of your questions will be answered, and within a day or three you'll have a much better idea of where you want to go and how to get there.

all the searching i'm doing (MAF, what is MAF, MAF translator, etc), wont even tell me what it is. i can't learn anything with people writing MAF if i don't know what it stands for


EDIT: googled it.. found the information in a heartbeat. Mass air flow. and i'm guessing the translator is what tells the car's computer how much air is going through the intake

 

[Calan]

gotta call BS on that one man.

I typed "what is a MAF" into my Google search bar, and the second link that popped up is:

Mass Air Flow Sensors:

Don't get lazy on us now...

 

[BogusSVO]

cory, your getting a bit ahead of yourself, yes we all want to go fast, (thats why I drive a Ford )

but to your #2 the head if in decent shape should go it about 7k or so in stock form. Just throwing parts at an engine will not make it fast or last. the parts you mentioned are all good for a solid build. But you need yor supporting mods, and a slew of other things first.

from me looking around this board, by the time you have about half the supporting mods, you'll pop the engine a good one and that will be the time for a rebuild.

get your car done with all the maintance...... when was the time belt changed? what about the fluids? you have good tiers on the car? what about the brakes?
then start folowing the path to power... many others have gone this route and now know there cars well and will help guide you.

so sit back, read till your eys bleed, then read some more.......

 

[cory51191]

gotta call BS on that one man.

I typed "what is a MAF" into my Google search bar, and the second link that popped up is:

Mass Air Flow Sensors:

Don't get lazy on us now...

i wasn't searching in google in the first place. i was searching on the DSM forums. i didn't find the answer until i searched google

cory, your getting a bit ahead of yourself, yes we all want to go fast, (thats why I drive a Ford )

but to your #2 the head if in decent shape should go it about 7k or so in stock form. Just throwing parts at an engine will not make it fast or last. the parts you mentioned are all good for a solid build. But you need yor supporting mods, and a slew of other things first.

from me looking around this board, by the time you have about half the supporting mods, you'll pop the engine a good one and that will be the time for a rebuild.

get your car done with all the maintance...... when was the time belt changed? what about the fluids? you have good tiers on the car? what about the brakes?
then start folowing the path to power... many others have gone this route and now know there cars well and will help guide you.

so sit back, read till your eys bleed, then read some more.......

i don't even have my car yet, that pic is a deal that didn't go through. i do read a lot of stuff but i think i'm being misinformed a lot because i go through this forum. gotta use google more often. but i'm going to be a certified mechanic in 6 months. just trying to learn more about turbocharged cars because i wont be learning about them (i don't think)

 

[TURBD]

Worry about making 300HP before you worry about 500HP.
Folow the path.
Unless you have 10g's burning a hole in your pocket your not going to need a race head. And if you do have 10g's I would put it back into your schooling, because whatever there teaching you is not enough. "certified" yea ok. I am not "certified" and know way more than you just from reading.
Read read read.
Learn to crawl before you enter the Olympics for the 100m dash.

 

[cory51191]

Worry about making 300HP before you worry about 500HP.
Folow the path.
Unless you have 10g's burning a hole in your pocket your not going to need a race head. And if you do have 10g's I would put it back into your schooling, because whatever there teaching you is not enough. "certified" yea ok. I am not "certified" and know way more than you just from reading.
Read read read.
Learn to crawl before you enter the Olympics for the 100m dash.

what u just said doesn't prove u know more than me if thats what u were getting to. i'm not in training for it yet so u don't gotta be an a$$ about it. i'm going to be a 63B in the ANG.. 63B = wheeled vehicle mechanic. and schooling will be free for me BTW. u might know more about your own car then me because i don't even have one yet. it would only make sense considering you've actually gotten a chance to work on it.

 

[1gDSM4g63]

so your saying aftermarket camshafts, springs, retainers and something to tune with will get 480-490whp? what about a FMIC? or intake, exhaust, intake mani, exhaust mani, fuel system, even the turbo... all stock? doesn't sound right.


i've done a lot of research about upgrading the 4g63 but what i can't figure out is: what is the best way to get 500awhp out of the 4g63?

i figured i'm gonna (in order): something to tune with, upgraded fuel system, fmic, turboback exhaust, aftermarket o2 with external waste gate, upgraded exhaust mani and HX35 (maybe HX35/40) turbo. that should do the trick right?

I was saying all you need was aftermarket cams and springs. I was only referring the head.

You will need the rest of the stuff you mention is make even close to 500 whp, but it's really not that easy if you're staying with a stock block. Well over 50 percent of the people on the board don't even make 400 whp. I would be shooting for 300 whp possibly 400 whp if you're lucky.

 

[dsm-onster]

what u just said doesn't prove u know more than me if thats what u were getting to. i'm not in training for it yet so u don't gotta be an a$$ about it. i'm going to be a 63B in the ANG.. 63B = wheeled vehicle mechanic. and schooling will be free for me BTW. u might know more about your own car then me because i don't even have one yet. it would only make sense considering you've actually gotten a chance to work on it.

Ok since most here have several years of experience in this specific platform, add all our years up and be glad you can listen to us. He was absolutely right. You really need to make 300whp before you can talk about more. Since you don't have the car yet you havn't. Asking questions like you have been is a great habit. But don't whine when we say WOE WOE WOE you need to go back and do something more basic. Remember you yourself said many of us individually have more experience in this platform than you.

i've done a lot of research about upgrading the 4g63 but what i can't figure out is: what is the best way to get 500awhp out of the 4g63?

a 500whp car can easily make 10s with seat time and traction. . . In this forum don't "ask how to run 10s before you've run 12s". And as well, you need have enough experience with this platform to have modded it to a point where it will be at around 400whp before posting in this forum: click. You'll not UNDERSTAND or even SEE the right answer to this question if it were right in this thread for you to look at because you don't have enough experience even getting 300whp out of this platform.

i do read a lot of stuff but i think i'm being misinformed a lot because i go through this forum. gotta use google more often. but i'm going to be a certified mechanic in 6 months. just trying to learn more about turbocharged cars because i wont be learning about them (i don't think)

You are not being misinformed reading the abundence of information on this site. You are getting confused because you don't understand it. You need to focus on a smaller goal first. You'll understand what the much of information posted means once you have some experience under your belt. You will be able to decipher fact from fiction and how to apply what you read once you have had a chance to get your hands dirty with a simple MBC, logger, and exhaust work. . . Start from the beginning, or NO ONE will help you because no one CAN. Frankly, we're not going to explain how a block has nothing to do with how high a head can rev and whether either is effective at a certian rpm, or what a turboback is. Some of that is subject to opinion. Some subject to specific circumstance. Some is too basic to bother.

If you go ahead and post questions back in the newbie forum (for those who've not installed an MBC and looked at a logger yet, or those who've yet to own a dsm), then you'll get simple answers to your questions that can steer you in the right direction. This forum isn't for you right now because you don't know enough to understand what to do with the answers we've given you. Those with no experience with 400whp dsms should not be asking about headwork or block work, and hense should not be posting in the cylinder head and shortblcok forum. Because that's a point where generally head and block work become critical . . .

. . . We'll gladly help you get to the point where you can understand this stuff back in the other forums where you can learn how to take the other steps required to get to this point.

 

[jrohner]

From the questions you've had you're not close to really ready to instantly go to 500hp. Learn hands on with the setup you have now, upgrade a little, tune a little, etc. Even just exhaust, 14B turbo, and tuning pretty much turns a DSM into a totally different car power wise. It will be a lot easier to learn starting out fairly stock and working your way up.

Maybe you're just thinking of V8's or something, but stock these heads flow better than many aftermarket v8 heads.

You should spend your time reading on here as much as you can instead of posting; you'll learn a lot more, faster. First about parts, engines, turbos, etc. Then about tuning and what to actually tune with.

 

[TURBD]

I am not trying to diss you in any way, but after you have been running your car for 10 years and people keep asking dumb questions. It gets really old real fast.
Have you ever even driven a 300hp car? Now you wan't a car with as much HP as a new z06 vette.. don't we all. Chances are if you had 500HP you would wrap your car around a pole faster than you would hit 4th.. Now what, MY insurance goes up because YOU couldn't handle the power.
Your knowlage should grow with your cars performance aswell as your driving skill.
Have you done ALL the maintinance, new fluids,timing belt, brakes, filters.. Probably not as you don't even own a DSM.
I have raced 2 people who should have blowen my doors off with the mods they had, yet I won both times with minor mods. Why? because a car that runs good is 10x's better than a car with a bunch of $$$$ throwen at it.
I turned every nut and bolt in and on my motor without schooling and with out asking retarded questions. EVERY question you can ask, has been asked before.

We can lead you to knowlage, we can't make you think.
Follow the path. It's there for a reason.
I hope you do reach your 500HP goal. Just don't expect to get there in a month, or a year.
Though 1 guy in my local club did throw down 666awhp in about a year. He is having some problems now though. He also had built blowen V8's and had a clue what he was doing.
The fact that you even thought about changing a 7 bolt to a 6 with a head is the part that tells me your not ready for 400HP let alone 500HP.

Good luck

 

[standard235]

Cory, go to VFAQ Site - Visual Frequently Answered Questions You can learn a little there and it will help you a LOT when you begin working on your DSM.

Pick up a Haynes manual.

And seriously, just READ. I've been on here for a long time, joined a while back after a lot of reading, and didn't do much posting until I had experience of my own. I haven't laid down 300whp yet but I know what it takes to get there, because I have "wasted" a TON of time reading here. If it's boring, you probably shouldn't be into DSM's because you will have to do a lot of reading when you blow shit up...

 

[andy4g63]

Basically, Cory, you need to do TWO THINGS:
---You can just have the intake, exhaust runners and combuston chamber polished/if you want...It doesn't add power, but reduces chances of detonation, by eliminating HOT SPOTS/ rough casting../..
While you there, LOOK INTO oil port MOD/ the one that BOGUS SVO made thread about it///


--- Second Install a SS valves, either standard, or 0.5 -1mm oversized. Make up your mind...
And of course having your choise of head gasket...

Everything else like: cams, springs, seals, studs, lifters, rocker arms, etc. could be done easy without removing the head, so you can do it later.

Do not skimp on something, do it right the first time and it will be ways cheaper, than doing it over and over again, regardless how expensive it might seems to you while you paying for it... GL...

 

[dsm-onster]

IT's really hard to remove the valve springs/seals/retainters with the head still on the car