Questions for Justin...

[JusMX141]

Not that I know of- unfortunately I don't have a complete Garrett parts list that goes to turbos that large. I know on the Mitsu turbos it's just a v-band clamp measured in millimeters (90.8 for all TD05H and TD06 units)- maybe it's as simple as just finding the correct size clamp and using that.

 

[99gst_racer]

Not that I know of- unfortunately I don't have a complete Garrett parts list that goes to turbos that large. I know on the Mitsu turbos it's just a v-band clamp measured in millimeters (90.8 for all TD05H and TD06 units)- maybe it's as simple as just finding the correct size clamp and using that.

Any recommendation of a place to order it? If I can get it by Saturday, even better.

So far, all of my searching is pulling up compressor and turbine outlet v-band clamps.

EDIT: Apparantly Tial offers one. Part number VC450. I'll call them in the morning.

 

[Steve93Talon]

V-band Clamp, Turbine housing to CHRA, GT42 : atpturbo.com

 

[99gst_racer]

V-band Clamp, Turbine housing to CHRA, GT42 : atpturbo.com

I saw that last night. I wish they were closer. CA is 5 days away. But I did call them and get the Garrent part number on it. For reference, it is 446397-0460.

 

[Arthris]

So Justin, I have been looking around and trying to find out what I can and can not do to a Big H1C. It was advertised as a hx35 and looking at the pics It looked like a genuine 8 blade hx35. Well ya its not. I was able to find this Upgrade Compressor Housing & Wheel combo (60mm inducer) for 1988-1991.5 Turbochargers and was wondering other than getting the WH1C wheel and compressor cover is there really anything else I can do to upgrade the compressor side? I have acces to a 12Cm hotside as I do believe it has the OEM 21CM on it.

 

[Ricardo]

Hello there Justin,

I've been studying turbos and compressor maps and I have a question that puzzles my mind often. I always go to the compressor map and plot out my application, however, there are combinations that I can't seem to find.

So we know the compressor map has the speed rating of the wheel at each vertical mark, but what happens when there is a combination with the given wheel with a larger turbine? The larger turbine will move less than the bigger one, thus causing lower speeds (and less heat), shouldn't the compressor map change a little or is it basically the same thing with more lag? The lower speeds/heat shouldn't diminish loss? What if we do the opposite? I see combinations and I can't seem to grasp an idea how the compressor map would kind of look like to make a projection...

Second question... What about the Compressor Housing, how does it affect the compressor map? I see turbos being offered with different housings on the same setup, but the compressor map has been plotted for a certain housing. What changes with CH size?

Thanks!

 

[RedTsi_PR]

Justin does all small 16G's come with 7cm housings?? I ask this because i have bought 2 separate small 16g on 2 different ocassions and both came the the 6cm housings

 

[JusMX141]

So Justin, I have been looking around and trying to find out what I can and can not do to a Big H1C. It was advertised as a hx35 and looking at the pics It looked like a genuine 8 blade hx35. Well ya its not. I was able to find this Upgrade Compressor Housing & Wheel combo (60mm inducer) for 1988-1991.5 Turbochargers and was wondering other than getting the WH1C wheel and compressor cover is there really anything else I can do to upgrade the compressor side? I have acces to a 12Cm hotside as I do believe it has the OEM 21CM on it.

All H1 compressors with an 83mm exducer are compatible- H1C or H1E. What they're selling you there is the largest H1E wheel available which isn't a good idea to use on a H1C turbine....especially in a DSM bolt-on turbine housing.

You may want to consider selling this turbo and getting a real HX...the H1's don't have a very durable thrust system from the factory.

Hello there Justin,

I've been studying turbos and compressor maps and I have a question that puzzles my mind often. I always go to the compressor map and plot out my application, however, there are combinations that I can't seem to find.

So we know the compressor map has the speed rating of the wheel at each vertical mark, but what happens when there is a combination with the given wheel with a larger turbine? The larger turbine will move less than the bigger one, thus causing lower speeds (and less heat), shouldn't the compressor map change a little or is it basically the same thing with more lag? The lower speeds/heat shouldn't diminish loss? What if we do the opposite? I see combinations and I can't seem to grasp an idea how the compressor map would kind of look like to make a projection...

Compressor maps are only relavant to airflow production of the compressor itself. Turbine housing and size selection pertain to the engine size and boost level at which the turbo will operate and DOES have an effect on total airflow production, but doesn't necessarily modify the efficiency islands of the compressor map.

Second question... What about the Compressor Housing, how does it affect the compressor map? I see turbos being offered with different housings on the same setup, but the compressor map has been plotted for a certain housing. What changes with CH size?

Thanks!

Compressor housing a/r does effect peak flow and may even modify the surge line depending on restriction, although not nearly as much as turbine housing a/r. This is proven by many of the hybrid "OEM 1G-style" turbos out there which seem to do just as well behind a small TD05H cover as they do in a larger cover.

Justin does all small 16G's come with 7cm housings?? I ask this because i have bought 2 separate small 16g on 2 different ocassions and both came the the 6cm housings

Every one that I've ever seen did. If it has a 6cm housing, the 7cm housing was likely robbed....although the turbo itself works fine in a 6cm housing up to around 18psi or so- after that you risk suffering compressor surge.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Compressor maps are only relavant to airflow production of the compressor itself. Turbine housing and size selection pertain to the engine size and boost level at which the turbo will operate and DOES have an effect on total airflow production, but doesn't necessarily modify the efficiency islands of the compressor map.

I would only add to this, that even with the larger turbine wheel, the same shaft speed will have to be met to generate the same boost(PR).

But provided this is fairly apples/apples change you should make more power at the same boost with the bigger turbine wheel. Note: There are exceptions to this, dependent on platform and the difference in size of the turbine wheel being replaced or even with the size discrepancy between compressor and the new turbine..

 

[Ricardo]

Compressor maps are only relavant to airflow production of the compressor itself. Turbine housing and size selection pertain to the engine size and boost level at which the turbo will operate and DOES have an effect on total airflow production, but doesn't necessarily modify the efficiency islands of the compressor map.

When I said turbine I was actually referring to the turbine wheel/axis, let's suppose we have a certain compressor wheel paired with a 60mm turbine wheel and the same compressor wheel paired with a 70mm turbine wheel.

How does this change in the turbine wheel to a larger or smaller one affect the overall efficiency of the compressor? We know that the smaller wheel is going to be spinning a lot more given that we keep the exaust flow constant (let's call it X). So, given that the exhaust flow is X and the compressor speed is let's say 100k rpm, if we change the turbine wheel to the larger one, the compressor speed should be lower than 100k (let's say 80k) as it's driven by the turbine wheel, right?

I guess my question is, based off the original COMPRESSOR map, how would the map look like if we changed the turbine wheel to a smaller or larger one? Is the compressor map irrelevant to the turbine size or is calculated paired with a certain turbine wheel? With all these companies offering different combinations and little to no maps, it's hard to guess and try to plot out where I would be working on the map, so I am trying to get an idea.

Thanks.

 

[Arthris]

Sounds good Justin. Thanks for the feedback!

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Compressor map doesn't change with different turbines. How you use it, and what parts are used change. Compressors are mapped independently. Garrett offers turbine maps, again made independent of any compressors that may be matched to them.

 

[delta448]

How does this change in the turbine wheel to a larger or smaller one affect the overall efficiency of the compressor?

Short answer: It doesn't.

Changing the turbine has no effect on the efficiency of a given compressor. When you look at the compressor map, you see only the efficiency of the compressor at various flow rates and pressure ratios (sometimes there are also shaft speed lines). This is always the same for a given compressor wheel. You try to size the hotside so that you run the compressor through the best efficiency islands for the flow rate you'll actually see at the boost pressure you'll target.

What changing the hotside does do however, is change the efficiency of the engine. A larger turbine wheel/housing offers less restriction to flow, thereby increasing the engine's volumetric efficiency. It will also place a given compressor into a different flow versus pressure ratio on the compressor's map.

If you haven't seen this page yet, it is worth more than a quick skim:
http://www.stealth316.com/2-3s-compflowmaps.htm

 

[WES_393]

If it's an H1E like I'm thinking it is, then it's basically an 8-blade HX40. But honestly, the compressor inducer has to be at least 58mm in order to actually be worth using. If it's a 60mm don't go home without it, but that's pretty rare. And of course make sure it's authentic and not one of the many clever knockoffs. The tag is usually a dead giveaway.

 

[RedTsi_PR]

Justin i'm planning on upgrading my Td06H 20G with a 3076 billet wheel. How do you think it will perform on a TD06H turbine on a 8cm housing.

 

[JusMX141]

Better than a 20G? I'm not sure what you're looking for here. That's not a very popular combo so it will either work great or it won't work worth a shit.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

The fp black is a 3586 compressor on a td06h turbine in an 8cm housing right? Only difference is ballbearing and flow advancement cover.

 

[RedTsi_PR]

Trying to have a 500+ capable turbo but don't want to spend a fortune. Also i'm getting a good price on whole conversion

 

[JusMX141]

My point is look at the Garrett T04E-series....the 50-trim works great, 54's so-so, 57's a total piece of shit, and the 60-trim works great on our cars. All four wheels have the same exducer and there's less than 1/4" on the inducer spec between the largest and the smallest.

It's impossible to know until you find out. I try not to build anything one-off like that until I have a test subject so I don't risk building a complete dog.

 

[Steve93Talon]

Justin i'm planning on upgrading my Td06H 20G with a 3076 billet wheel. How do you think it will perform on a TD06H turbine on a 8cm housing.

That would pretty much be a knock-off of an FP Red, plenty of people have run well with them. Also, the Force Engineering car that won the stock appearing turbo class at the shootout ran 9.6 @ 145 with something basically like this (light methanol powered car).

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dsm...b-talon-tsi-16g-methanol-6.html#post153308361

The fp black is a 3586 compressor on a td06h turbine in an 8cm housing right? Only difference is ballbearing and flow advancement cover.

The Black is a 3582 compressor.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Oh ya 3582 sorry

 

[RedTsi_PR]

So similar setups has been ran and performed well.I'm gonna go ahead and do it and let you guys know how it does

 

[sqr]

Is it possible for a turbo to stall so completely when it goes to the left of the surge line that the engine goes in to vacuum and takes several seconds to recover? Like a really elongated surge cycle?

This would be on a non dsm application. A 2.6 liter 2valve engine with a He341 and also a h1c and also happened with a ebay t70. With the ebay t70 the problem went away when the compressor cover was changed from the ebay .70 ar to a precision .60 ar. These would be pretty big turbos for the engine in question.

 

[stracer107]

So I have a dumb question. I have a small 16g and a hc1 holset. I was reading the compound turbo thread and was like hmmmm. I know that the holset would spool up nice with a bep hot side. So would it be a complete waste of time and money to run a compound set up with what I have? Of would it be worth while? I also have access to a hx52 for cheap.

 

[Bud92gsx]

So I have a dumb question. I have a small 16g and a hc1 holset. I was reading the compound turbo thread and was like hmmmm. I know that the holset would spool up nice with a bep hot side. So would it be a complete waste of time and money to run a compound set up with what I have? Of would it be worth while? I also have access to a hx52 for cheap.

On your 420a car? I'm