Question about T-belt when Pulling Head

[habitatguy187]

The previous owner said the t-belt and all that jazz was done about 6k miles ago, so I don't want to do it again (mainly because I've never done one and don't know how) As of right now the head is ready to come off, minus the head studs and t-belt.

My question is this, can I mark the t-belt on a couple places on each cam gear and down at the crank pully, zip tie the belt a couple spots on the cam gears, then take them off with the belt, or will that mess up the tensioner somehow? I don't have a tensioner tool yet so I was wondering if it was absolutely needed to take the belt off, or if I just needed it to put it back on?

Also I guess that I just turn both motors until #1 is at TDC, then I shouldn't have to mess with the cams when I put the new head in correct?

BTW, I'm using this link as a semi-guideline to help me out.

 

[hurricanecris24]

I was thinking the same thing because I have never timed an engine before and had to pull my head then I Decided to do a whole timing replacement so I cut the belt

 

[slow gst]

Just loosen the tensioner and the belt slides off, then put the tensioner in a vice and tighten it VERY slowly a drop a pin through.

 

[habitatguy187]

Just loosen the tensioner and the belt slides off, then put the tensioner in a vice and tighten it VERY slowly a drop a pin through.

I'm not trying to take off the pulleys or the lower timing cover. If I pull the belt off with the cam gears will it throw the tensioner/bottom half of the t-belt out of whack?

And then if it doesn't would I be able to put it back on when I get a tensioner tool?

 

[slow gst]

Why not just do it the right and take the extra 15 minutes to take the entire timing cover off?

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

NO. You cant do that. Because you need to lock the tensioner, and guarantee the oil pump sprocket will move. Just do it the correct way.

 

[hairybeanbag]

Timing a 4g is pretty easy, especially if you have the Jay racing timing tool kit. You can't just slide the belt off the cam gears, the reason why is because our motors have a hydraulic tensioner that keep the belt tight.

Ask your self this, "is it worth half assing this simple job" to completely destroy your cylinder head?

 

[19Eclipse90]

That's an interesting approach in the link and it certainly sounds like it should work if it is done precisely as described. But I don't believe I would ever try it.

I would also like to encourage doing the job the right way, leaving no guesswork in it. If you've never done a timing job before, this is a perfect opportunity to learn.

If you choose not to do it the right way and it works, kudos, you are more ballsy than I.

 

[TSiAWD666]

You must turn the engine to TDC. Once lined up, zip-tie the cam gears to the timing belt securely. Next use the timing belt tensioner tool. Once that's in place, you can remove the cam gears carefully and set them aside. Reverse the install. Verify you're still at TDC and then crank the engine manually through a full cycle to verify no contact. Ideally you'd verify everything with the timing.

 

[habitatguy187]

I was also going to mark the crank's position to the belt to make sure that it doesn't slip, but I don't have a tensioner tool and don't feel like making one, so I'm just going to take the entire belt off, and as someone above mentioned, learn how to do a t-belt job.

I haven't worked on it at all since I posted this but the head is ready to come off minus the t-belt and headstuds (already bought a 10mm hex socket, it's only a 3/8" drive though ::yikes:

 

[white92talontsi]

I would just do it the right way. Don't take somebodies word because they say its got a new t belt. Pull it apart and do it right and verify the new belt. I could sell a car saying its got a new bottom end but how would the buyer know without receipts or pulling the motor apart?

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

 

[black_gst]

I have done several HG jobs without removing the T belt. i use the jay racing kit and start by rotating everything to TDC and then slip that plastic piece from Jay between the gears then using 5 zip ties total 2 on each cam gear securing the belt to the gear and then one on the center of the two cam gears holed thing together with the plastic piece between the cam gears then i put the pin in the hyd. tensioner and unbolt the tensioner... i cant use the long bolt to depress the tensioner arm because i have a 6 botl swap on my 2g but if you arent swaped you can just use the long bolt(use moly lube on the bolt) to hold the tensioner arm down just enough to remove tension from the belt...

either of those way work.. the quickest being to use the bolt if possible...

then un bolt the cam gears and replace your HG


i suggest you pick up the jay racing timing belt tool kit... will make this job 10x easier

you can also use the same steps to swap cams and or replace leaking cam seals

 

[habitatguy187]

^^^ Dude you said almost the exact same thing like 4 posts up .


Pulled the head off last night, here's some pics.




CYLINDER #1

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CYLINDER #2

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CYLINDER #3

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CYLINDER #4

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FULL HEAD

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BLOCK

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PISTON #1

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It looks like there's some serious damage to the intake valves, or is that normal? The previous owner said that cylinder #1 "had low compression, due to what my mechanic said was valves". I never did a compression test on the engine myself , wet or dry, so I don't really know what I'm looking for here.

Also I'm pretty sure that my intake cam was off a tooth, is it possible that this head is fine and that my timing being off could cause the problems I was experiencing? My engine had a nasty ticking noise near cylinder #1 but the piston looks fine. Maybe I should take the valves out to make sure they're not bent???

I need some advice on what to do next guys.

 

[19Eclipse90]

I'm not seeing anything that would indicate damage to the valves, but maybe the pictures don't show it well enough. If you are referring to the indents on the pistons, those are original valve reliefs and were there before the pistons were even in the engine.

Are the camshafts out? I would assume so since you've got the head off, but if not, remove them. Remove the exhaust manifold. Put the head up on the exhaust side and pour water into the intake ports. Check for water leaking out of the valves. Repeat for the exhaust valves and check for water leaking out of those valves. This is a quick and easy way to tell if your valves are bent or not, though it doesn't seem like they are, and is much easier than removing said valves.

 

[habitatguy187]

Are the camshafts out? I would assume so since you've got the head off, but if not, remove them. Remove the exhaust manifold. Put the head up on the exhaust side and pour water into the intake ports. Check for water leaking out of the valves. Repeat for the exhaust valves and check for water leaking out of those valves. This is a quick and easy way to tell if your valves are bent or not, though it doesn't seem like they are, and is much easier than removing said valves.

Will do, thanks.



I didn't really see obvious damage either, besides the intake valves being very rough and look like they've worn down in the center over time. I still have the cams in the head and the exhaust mani is still on it also. I'll do the water method sometime today though for sure, probably later tonight. I'll post back with results asap.


EDIT: I also knew about the valve reliefs, I just took a picture of the piston to show how it looks a little burnt on the intake side, not sure if that's normal or not... Pistons #1 and #4 looked more burnt than the others.

 

[habitatguy187]

Well guys I pulled the exhaust manifold off the head, put a ratchet on the cam gears and closed the valves one at a time, then poured water into the intake/exhaust ports and watched the valves to see if any water would leak out.

I had a leak on the following :

Cylinder #1 - 1 intake valve and 1 exhaust valve
Cylinder #2 - 1 intake valve and 2 exhaust valves (exhaust valves leaking pretty good, about a drip every second out of each one)

I know you said to take the cams out, but I was having a hard time breaking the cam gears loose with the head already off the car and just me. Does anyone know if the cams need to be completely out for this test to be valid? If so I'll just have to wait until tonight when a friend gets off work.

I'm still trying to figure out what was causing such a loud tapping noise...

 

[hairybeanbag]

Well guys I pulled the exhaust manifold off the head, put a ratchet on the cam gears and closed the valves one at a time, then poured water into the intake/exhaust ports and watched the valves to see if any water would leak out.

I had a leak on the following :

Cylinder #1 - 1 intake valve and 1 exhaust valve
Cylinder #2 - 1 intake valve and 2 exhaust valves (exhaust valves leaking pretty good, about a drip every second out of each one)

I know you said to take the cams out, but I was having a hard time breaking the cam gears loose with the head already off the car and just me. Does anyone know if the cams need to be completely out for this test to be valid? If so I'll just have to wait until tonight when a friend gets off work.

I'm still trying to figure out what was causing such a loud tapping noise...

The cam gears can stay attached to the cams, there is no need to remove the cam gears to remove the cams from the head. Just keep track of the bearing caps, make sure you mark them exactly where they go and re install them in that order.

 

[19Eclipse90]

^+1.

Remove the camshafts completely; this does not mean removing the cam sprockets. Do that and repeat the test -- again much easier than pulling out the valves to check.

 

[2gdsm_nc]

caps are marked from factory
intake valves nasty comes from driving short distances and not allowing the engine to go through complete heat cycle.