1G Question about removing transmission on 1G

[XC92]

Btw, I've yet to actually drop the trans due to all these preliminary tasks like cleaning up suspension and subframe members and replacing the bushings, but at some point in the next couple of weeks I'm going to get to it, and once it's done I'll have to replace the fluids.

I'm almost certainly going to go with OEM Mitsubishi manual trans oil:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00TNKLTM6

I assume that this is a good choice. But I'm still undecided on what to put in the transfer case and rear diff. Jack's Transmission says Red Line Lightweight Shockproof Gear Oil, but a lot of people seem to swear by the heavyweight version. In fact it appears to be far more popular here.

Then again a lot of people here have heavily modded cars that put out way more horses than my stock Talon does, including upgraded transmissions, and race them, which I don't and won't. So is the lightweight version fine, or even better, for my needs?

I know that the stock response is "whatever works for you", but I have no meaningful basis for making that decision, and in the past just let the mechanics put whatever they thought was best in there.

Btw when Jack's makes these recommendations, is it mainly for transmissions that they rebuilt with non-stock higher-end parts, or also for stock transmissions?

 

[pauleyman]

If youre dropping the whole subframe out of the car its tons easier to remove and reinstall the trans with the subframe out. I made the mistake of reinstalling the subframe first. Felt silly for doing so.

 

[XC92]

If youre dropping the whole subframe out of the car its tons easier to remove and reinstall the trans with the subframe out. I made the mistake of reinstalling the subframe first. Felt silly for doing so.

Thanks for the tip. I was actually planning on putting the subframe back in before reinstalling the trans. It just seemed logical for some reason. I mean the large "rear" subframe up front that attaches to the frame and to which the control arms, center and front crossmember attach to, not these other parts. Is that ok, perhaps even preferable, or should I wait till I put the trans back in before putting ANY of these back on?

Also, about what to put in the t-case and rear diff, I did a little digging and it appears that either Redline Shockproof, heavy or light weight, is really for modded cars that are raced, and for stock DD cars like mine something more like Redline 75W-90 or OEM Mitsubishi SAE 90 LSD Gear Oil. Would you agree, and of the two, which would you recommend if you were in my situation?

 

[pauleyman]

Put trans in before anything else. I put up subframe all by itself and then attached stuff to it because ota so heavy and awkward. Steering rack takea a little bit to line up right. I would mark or scribe lines if you can. Lining up the splines is a pain. Well....uts all a pain but you know....
As for gear oil i don't run anything special. Off the shelf amsoil products. Gl4 and gl5 oils as required. I simply followed whatever weights the manual states. That might change as i up the power.

 

[XC92]

So, put the trans in first, then subframe, then everything else? How heavy is the subframe, btw, and will I need a second person or jack to get it back on? I didn't realize it was that heavy.

I think the AWD trans is around 140lb, not sure if that's with or without the t-case. If the subframe's anywhere near that heavy, I'm going to need a jack to lower and replace it.

Also, further searches indicate that I might be best off with 3 different oils:

Trans: OEM (or RL MT-85 GL-4)
T-Case: RL MT-85 GL-4
Rear Diff: RL 75W90 GL-5

I'll probably go with OEM for the trans as it's cheaper and what most recommend, and these other 2 for the rest. Glad I looked into this and didn't get the Shockproof. Jack's Trans isn't clear on that.

 

[pauleyman]

You will not install the subframe without a jack. Not likely and for sure not if you're by yourself. Its heavy and awkward.

 

[XC92]

Is a floor jack ok, with a long enough section of 2x4 (or perhaps several stacked) sitting fore-aft?

Or preferably a trans jack?

If former, jack on one end (R or L), me on other, fasten 2 nuts but not torqued down, go to other side, do same, then torque all 4 down? Or balance carefully on center, then do one side then the other?

If latter, jack on center, do one side, then the other, then torque all 4 down?

 

[XC92]

Finally got the trans out today. Harder than I expected.

After getting the last of the prep steps out of the way over the weekend, removing bell housing inspection plate, slave cylinder, select & shift levers, etc., as well as supporting the oil pan with a scissor jack and piece of 2x4, as insurance, today I supported the trans with a trans jack, took the top 3 trans-engine bolts, mount bolt & nut & bottom engine-trans bolt out, then tried to take the trans off, by moving it to the right.

It moved, slightly, around an inch, then wouldn't move any more, certainly not enough to clear the flywheel & pressure plate and get the input shaft out of the clutch disc splines. After looking around I saw the problem. The trans mount was still there and in the way, and had to be removed. I had thought that removing the long horizontal bolt that goes through the mount roller would suffice, but apparently not. The whole thing had to come out, at least that's how it looked to me. There's very little right-left clearance there.

But getting it out was a major pain, as there were 2 vertical bolts and then 4 horizontal bolts. The latter were fairly easy to remove from the wheel well after removing the rubber plugs. And I could access and remove the left-most of the 2 vertical bolts. But the right one offered no access from above, especially with the ABS unit there (yes, my car came pretty fully loaded and I have no intention of removing such parts since I'm never going to race it), but especially with the roller still in the way and no way to remove it that I could see.

The only option was a combo wrench. But it was torqued on so tight that it wouldn't budge, no matter how hard I pulled with my sole 17mm wrench, a rather thin GearWrench. Luckily, my nice neighbor, the one who lent me his trans jack, had a better wrench, and he showed me the trick where you use another wrench as a sort of cheater bar, and that did the trick.

The final bolt removed, I took the whole mount assembly off, which gave me enough clearance to remove and lower the trans. There wasn't enough clearance to remove it from the front as I hadn't raised the car enough and didn't account for the trans jack height, but thankfully I'd already pulled the entire suspension out of the right side for a complete overhaul, so there was nothing in the way and I was able to get out it from there.

Once out, I tried to wiggle and pull on the input shaft, and there was absolutely no play, and with it in gear, I was able to turn it by hand and see the output shaft turn. So good news there in more ways than one.

Next I removed the pressure plate, using an impact wrench so no worries about the flywheel turning. I had to pry it slightly but it wasn't too hard to remove. I took a look at the clutch disc and it was basically just metal, with just a hint of friction material. I really rode that one to death. Hopefully it didn't take too much surface off the flywheel and I can reuse it after it's resurfaced.

Finally, I took the flywheel off, also using the impact. Came off easy. I'll take it to a trans or machine shop to have it resurfaced, and they'll tell me if it's still usable. And yes, it's a 6-bolt, as I hoped and expected. The car's door label says that it was made in May 1992, which is technically a month past the April 1992 cutoff month for the 6/7 bolt dividing line, but I'd heard that it wasn't cut and dry and some of the cars made after April still had the 6 bolt, like mine. This is preferable, right?

Now I need to figure out what's going on with the popping out of 1st gear issue and fix it, clean everything up, put on a new clutch, pressure plate and release bearing (SBC Stage 2 DD & OEM), reinstall the clutch, clean up and overhaul all the suspension and steering parts (new bushings, ball joints, tie rods, etc.), put it all back on, along with the t-case and exhaust, fire it up and see if everything works.

All of this should take 1-2 weeks, hopefully not longer as the car's in a neighbor's driveway and they need it out soon. If I can at least get it on the street that gives me 10 more days to have it inspected while I complete the final steps. But, other than the trans issue, I think that the hardest parts are behind me and now it's just a matter of getting everything back on again.

Btw, to answer my own question from the previous post, to remove the subframe, what I did was put a floor jack under it with the saddle under the center of the subframe with a fore-aft oriented 12" piece of 2x4 between the saddle and subframe, and that supported it well enough to slowly lower and remove it, with a little finagling here and there as the balance was a bit off. I assume that this is how I'll get it back on.

 

[pauleyman]

Before you start tearing trans too far apart you can check the intermediate shaft play and get an idea of whats going on. Once the end case is off the intermediate is exposed. Get the gear off and you can move the shaft. I usually get some washers and install a few of the end case bolts back without the end case so you hold the intermediate plate down. Its tedious bolting and unbolting etc during the shim/measurement process. I do one shaft at a time so as to not affect others.

 

[XC92]

Haven't opened the case yet and I might have to put that off for logistical reasons (the neighbor in whose driveway the car is parked needs me to move it next week, and that's not enough time for me to replace the clutch and get everything else back on AND deal with whatever issues the trans has, as this is a job that needs to be done right and I've never done it before, plus by nature I like to take my time, so I'll probably have to pull the trans a second time after I've moved it to the street).

But, I did remove it at least and cleaned up the bell housing (really filthy with black soot and powder that I assume is clutch disc dust--btw the disc was down to metal, as I expected). The input shaft didn't move at all, except of course radially, like it should. But the output shaft moved in and out around 1/16-1/8". Is that bad?

The shift/select levers worked properly in all positions.