Putting a Honda intake manifold onto a 4g63t.

[killercolt]

Background:
This is a crazy idea I had a few years back after reading this post on Honda-tech.
Edelbrock Victor X versus Skunk2 PRO Series Intake Manifold Dyno Test - Honda-Tech. As you can see from the thread, the longer runners intake manifold gave the guy an overall better power band.

Parts:
-Skunk2 or Junk2 intake manifold for a Honda b18c or b16a vtec engine.
-factory 1g intake manifold gasket
-factory 1g throttle body gasket
-die grinder
-grinding bit for aluminum
-sharpie
-tig welder or a friend with tiq welder
-drill and drill bit


The victim:

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1g intake manifold gasket lined up to determine where to port, block off, drill and add marterial:

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Almost ready for the hogging process.

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My wrist is messed up from demolishing a storage shack. It will take me another week to heal up completely to do all the modifications to this manifold.

This is one I already did for my friend's car. We also dyno the car this weekend. The initial result is promising. I will be comparing this manifold against the factory 1g and cyclone intake manifolds. I sold my JMF race and Forrester intake manifold over a year ago after going to the cyclone intake manifold. If one of my friend lets me use his JMf race intake manifold, the test will be interesting because this manifold is proven to pretty good for the price, performance and quality.

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23psi tapered to 22psi at redline

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23psi tapered to 22 psi with 55shots of nitrous

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My friend car is automatic so the power band looks sluggish in the midrange. Up top it is pretty rich and the boost is 1psi less so it looks like power is dipping after around 7500-8000rpm. I like to see this manifold on a manual car. I got a friend with a big 16g Mirage that I will get to do a test for me.

 

[turboglenn]

I've swapped the flange on a honda edelbrck manifold to a 4g63 before, I kinda wish i knew what happened to that guy cause i don't think he ever used it and i wouldn't mind trying it out, there was a little reshaping of the runner ID to mate them perfectly but the way you did it would probably be easier.. I actually removed both flanges from the manifolds and welded them on with there being about an inch and a half of runner left from the DSM intake.. was a PITA to do being cast and having to get them ground open between cylinders to complete a 360* weld.. I can't wait to hear more about this work with that manifold though, is it an OEM unit?? (i'll re-read it too)

 

[Cdc1221]

I'd be curious as to if the oe unit would be benificial. I can see where this would interest someone who wanted to run dual rails too, if the OEM Honda rail would clear the stock Mitsubishi rail.

 

[fosforito95]

random question here, are you running a bov on your friends car?

 

[killercolt]

The Skunk 2 intake has bosses on the bottom to tape for direct nitrous injection. If you want to go with duel fuel rails, you might be best to put it on the bottom too.

90 talon Tsi Awd, the bog is on the bottom of the uicp. Looks where the coolant over flow is.

 

[Armandotech]

This could also be a great manifold for a 2G head since the ports are similar in size which will keep the porting to a minimum.

 

[Gamble97]

I've swapped the flange on a honda edelbrck manifold to a 4g63 before, I kinda wish i knew what happened to that guy cause i don't think he ever used it and i wouldn't mind trying it out, there was a little reshaping of the runner ID to mate them perfectly but the way you did it would probably be easier.. I actually removed both flanges from the manifolds and welded them on with there being about an inch and a half of runner left from the DSM intake.. was a PITA to do being cast and having to get them ground open between cylinders to complete a 360* weld.. I can't wait to hear more about this work with that manifold though, is it an OEM unit?? (i'll re-read it too)

Any pics of that? I would think it would be easier to swap flanges no?

 

[RedTsi_PR]

Subscribing,I have S2 mani sitting on my garage from my last Honda.thia looks promising

 

[turboglenn]

I can get ya pics let me dig on the external hard drives (got 5 of them full of crap ) Honestly think from seeing these pics and knowing what i went through (a pain in the ass) that ir's probably best to just weld a DSM flange ot the honda manifold flange and port match and fill with weld to make the transistion the best you can

 

[killercolt]

I don't want to add unnecessary cost to this manifold. It will transition better with the original flange. Please wait and see.

 

[manny correa]

Dammit I had a S2 manifold that was gonna go into a integra gsr build I did a while ago, never used it and sold it next to nothing . I'm also interested in seeing a 2g gasket put up against it.. Migh require a lil less fab..?? Idk.. Definitely keeping an eye on this. Good work!

 

[killercolt]

Manny Correa. The ports on the Honda intake manifold are slightly taller than the 2g intake ports. It would not be much work to gasket matched the 2g intake ports if the head is off the car.

My hand felt okay today so I went to my garage for 10 minutes to carve in the manifold. This is what I got so far.

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I will be slicing the plenum apart to do done cleaning in here.

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See the little the bottom of the flange where more material will need to added.

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[bastarddsm]

Any pictures of this in a DSM chassis? Our cruise control is right in the way and we don't have much room back there. I like this idea because I feel all the smim's are made for 10krpm. They need longer runners. I"m pretty positive they worried more about fit than function.
I think one of these would benefit from making the plenum larger, probably close to 3l.

Anyway my intake is attached. Same idea, different execution. Throw-away stock intake +$20 piece of 4" pipe = an intake that works good.

I attempted to tune it for a power peak at about 7000. With my HY35 and a 500whp tune it peaked at 7500 and was flat to 9000. On the HE351 and 650whp it peaks at 7300, and falls to 550 at 9000. I can't complain at all. I feel like I should be shifting at 10000 on the 500hp tune .

I have DSK272 cams too.

 

[killercolt]

The manifold is about 12" from the flange to the end of the plenum. Most smim are 6-7" runners with a 4-5" plenum. It should fit a dsm I believe. Jmf proved that you can benefit from a fat plenum.

After 20 minutes, I got to this point.

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These are the weapons of mass destruction:

35 bux electric die grinder.

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20 bux air die grinder for detail work.

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[keltalon]

Very nice job! I would love to compare this to the cyclone keep us posted

The manifold is about 12" from the flange to the end of the plenum. Most smim are 6-7" runners with a 4-5" plenum. It should fit a dsm I believe. Jmf proved that you can benefit from a fat plenum.

After 20 minutes, I got to this point.

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These are the weapons of mass destruction:

35 bux electric die grinder.

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20 bux air die grinder for detail work.

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[talonalex92]

What about the throttle flange?

And as far as the upper intercooler pipe is concerned, how far does the Honda manifold move the throttle body?

 

[InfiniteGSX]

Not bad.

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

I've been wanting to try this for about 10 years but never got around to going through all the work to try it. Looks quite promising. can you give us more info on that test car? good numbers for an auto for sure. Is it FWD or AWD? 2.0 or 2.3?

 

[talonalex92]

Well since this went no where, I will report back. The intake manifold flange has been addressed. Throttle has not, I went to the parts store and ordered a 00 b18c throttle body gasket and will compare the two to see what additional drilling is required. I think this mod could prove to be even more promising to the stroker guys that aren't revving out like these cars are, and who have large cams that still want bottom end power. Im looking into the edelbrock manifolds. This one in particular. Im really digging the small plenum and long runners. Details to follow.

 

[killercolt]

I am not sure how it changes the upper intercooler position. The throttle body flange is very close to matching. Two of the front bolt holes matched up on the 1g throttle body. These two holes do not match up well on the 2g throttle because the holes on the 2g throttle body are slightly smaller. You should be able open the tight holes up a bit with a bigger drill bit. I tighten throttle against the intake with the two matching holes and use the rear two holes as guides to drill the 2 new holes.

I should have something to show you guys in a few days.

 

[talonalex92]

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Here is what I have with the throttle bodies. The stock 2g gasket is the smaller of the two, on the bottom. The Honda bore mic's at about 63mm. Also worth noting, the manifolds don't seem to have any other provisions on the throttle flange other than the throttle bore and the mounting bolts. More details to come when I order the manifold and begin the modding. Im also thinking this can be done without a welder, using npt plugs. Again, details will follow.

 

[killercolt]

More update. It took about an hour more to get it to this point. A little more polishing and it will be time to do some welding.

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[killercolt]

I do have time to messed with my intake manifold this week. However my friend has his Honda intake manifold off to test the cyclone intake manifold. Here are some pics of his Honda intake manifold. The flanges are not the best. We should have taken more time to make everything looks nicer.

Initial test drive indicated that this intake manifold is choking out up top and flowing less air in the midrange. The log is showing that the car was running richer than when the Honda intake manifold was on. This means there was less air with the cyclone. Cruising speed was leaner which means the cyclone was flowing more air down low. We missed the Dyno last weekend but we will try to make it this Saturday. We will see

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Throttle body flange. Just enough room to tape two bolts. The two front bolt holes are original.

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You have to block or weld up the two holes on the back side of the intake manifold. It is where the Honda idle air control motor goes. You have to grind this area to clear the throttle body arm if you use a dsm throttle body.

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On my intake manifold I will weld up the holes on the flange snd redrill them instead slotting the holes.

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Some of the areas on the flange I welded to restore the sealing surface after the porting.

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You can tell it is not quit gasket match to his head. I am going to shape it a little better for him if it is going back on the car.

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[Marc91GSX]

How were you operating the butterflies on the Cyclone Intake?

 

[RipperXX]

I hope this thing really performs with as much work as your putting into it to make it work.