Putting a Honda intake manifold onto a 4g63t.

[YoYo_4G63]

I would love to see hp results on this as well.

 

[killercolt]

Marc91gsx. I am controlling the cyclone intake manifold with a 14b wastegate actuator. The factory butterfly actuator blew up on me.

Hey guys. I went to the dyno on Saturday to test the cyclone intake manifold with my friend car but he had fuel issue. He was only able to do pull up to about 4000rpm some what safely. From 2000rpm to 4000rpm, the with lambda value was around .90. From 4000-5200rpm, it try to go over 1.0+ lambda. We try putting more fuel into the engine but the it did not richen up. He has 1650cc high impedence injector and a 044 fuel pump. His fuel pressure gauge ballooned up during the last dyno session so we did not know what the fuel pressure was. We will try to figure out the fuel issue and we will be back to the dyno soon to see what the cyclone intake manifold is all about.


The cyclone intake manifold we are testing has the butterflies removed. This should improve top end power in theory. Base on the 2000-4000rpm pulls that we did, the Honda intake manifold is out performing this cyclone intake manifold. There might be some fuel related issue that is giving the Honda intake manifold an advantage or the cyclone intake might need the butterfly. We were a little disappointed so we left without the dyno sheet.


I will try to finish up my intake manifold soon so I can test it on my car. I have GTX3076r with a FP bolt on housing and exhaust manifold. It will be interesting to see how it stacks up against my previous setup with the tubular manifold and GT35R.

 

[killercolt]

Well it looks like it is worth a bit of time to do this mod. My friend and I went to the Dyno today with the cyclone intake manifold on the car. This cyclone intake manifold is ported, gasket matched, deburred, and had the butterflies remove. Boost is the same. Uncorrected hp and tq. Overall, the Honda intake manifold it better for the power we are searching for.

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This might be off topic but I felt like I need to mention what the fuel issue was. It turns out that the RCI 1650cc high impedence Borsch injectors are not E85 compatible. These are the one piece injectors that are about the same length as the factory injectors. I am not sure about the two piece injectors sold by FIC but the once piece RCI 1650cc are not E85 compatible. After sitting for about a week, the RCI 1650cc injectors rusted up pretty bad. We switched to the proven PTE 1000cc and the car ran beautiful again with a little fuel calibration.

 

[bastarddsm]

Edit your post to show which is which.

 

[keltalon]

Well it looks like it is worth a bit of time to do this mod. My friend and I went to the Dyno today with the cyclone intake manifold on the car. This cyclone intake manifold is ported, gasket matched, deburred, and had the butterflies remove. Boost is the same. Uncorrected hp and tq. Overall, the Honda intake manifold it better for the power we are searching for.

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This might be off topic but I felt like I need to mention what the fuel issue was. It turns out that the RCI 1650cc high impedence Borsch injectors are not E85 compatible. These are the one piece injectors that are about the same length as the factory injectors. I am not sure about the two piece injectors sold by FIC but the once piece RCI 1650cc are not E85 compatible. After sitting for about a week, the RCI 1650cc injectors rusted up pretty bad. We switched to the proven PTE 1000cc and the car ran beautiful again with a little fuel calibration.

Both of these runs was with the cyclone and butterflies removed?

 

[killercolt]

The dyno run with the yellow background is with the cyclone intake manifold. This cyclone intake manifold does not have the butterflies at all. They are taken out and the holes for the butterfly shaft are welded up. We felt this would give the cyclone intake manifold a little advantage overall because the butterflies look pretty restrictive.

My car has a cyclone intake manifold with the butterflies. I will do a same day comparison in a few weeks. I am going to run a gtx3076r with a FP bolt on housing. The turbo should spool pretty quick and show how the cyclone intake perform down low with the butterflies.

 

[1SloEvo]

So where is the chart showing the Honda manifold is better than the cyclone? Or are you just speculating right now due to how it's intended to perform on a Honda?

 

[Macspsi]

He gained 8hp and 3(ft)(lbs)?

 

[1SloEvo]

The dyno run with the yellow background is with the cyclone intake manifold.

This is quoted from his previous post.

This makes me believe that both pulls are with the cyclone manifold. It doesn't say anything about it being the Honda manifold. Also, it just looks like one was a shorter pull and one was a longer pull, resulting in slightly different numbers

 

[keltalon]

He gained 8hp and 3(ft)(lbs)?

This dyno is a dyno of the cyclone manifold by itself. The dyno of the Honda manifold was done in another dyno session

 

[killercolt]

This is the one with the Honda intake manifold.

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[TSI_93]

Yeah the Honda manifold looks like the clear winner if all things are equal.

 

[killercolt]

Yeah the Honda manifold looks like the clear winner if all things are equal.

I can not wait to test my own car. I got to finish rebuilding my automatic and put in my new gtx3076r.

 

[killercolt]

I got pm asking if the Honda intake manifold will fit on a 1g so here is the answer.

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[Detail]

Looking good KillerColt. Eventually I'll get my baby fixed and come see you all at dynolab.

Dan

 

[TurboLaserRS]

Nice work! I was kind of skeptical about this because well.. I'm not so fond of Honda's. But 27HP gain is a big deal! Looks like all that work paid off for you.

 

[killercolt]

It fits in 2g also. It fits way better than any intakes around. It clear the 2g brake fluid bottle and allow the use of the stock battery size on the throttle body size. You can even use the existing upper intercooler pipe because it angle up like the stock manifold. You might need extend the upper intercooler pipe about 2" from what I am seeing.

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This Dyno sheet compare the Honda intake against the cyclone intake. The gain is not as big as my other friend's car but it shows substantial amount of gain up top. It shows that this intake is a good balance between strip and street. This is a gt3582r with a .63 a/r at 22psi.

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I have to say that the Honda intake is so easy to install because the plenum is curved up.

We had the ignition coils zip tied to the intake for the test but there are so many pre drilled spot on the intake intake manfold to mount the coils. The pic below has me pointing to where I will mount my coils. One of my friend had his coils mounted perfectly there.

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[killercolt]

This sexiness will find its way into a 4g. I just love the way it looks. It has a bigger plenum which make it look so much more proportion. The runners have a small curve so I am not sure how it will line up with the existing intercooler pipe.

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I don't even care if it don't make more power. It is just cool to say to have an Edelbrock intake manifold.

 

[GPTourer]

Maybe foward your results to Edlebrock and they'll make one that fits our cars. Shouldn't take too much of an investment from them.

 

[DanielMandon]

This is the same trool guy who dynoed the Cyclone which was being actuated at 3500 rpm right? Call me skeptical of any numbers in this thread. As far as I can tell the dynos weren't even on the same machine - much less the same conditions.

 

[killercolt]

Maybe foward your results to Edlebrock and they'll make one that fits our cars. Shouldn't take too much of an investment from them.

It would be cool to have a company like Edlebrock makes a manifold for our car. However I doubt they would do so since they might not get enough purchase to offset tooling and engineer cost.

I see that there are a lot of guys that are upset because I did not have the butterflies opened exactly at 4200rpm during my cyclone vs Honda intake manifold test. I don't know where this ideal rpm number came from. Most are reporting butt Dyno result. I would love to know for sure if I can get a volunteer with to come to the Atlanta area. I got quick Dyno access so I don't mind experimenting for you guys. Please volunteer if you feel like coming to hang out and share your experience. Please have a turbo other than a t25, 14b or 16g because it is already been done with small turbo like the one mentioned.

The Edlebrock intake is so sexy. It is the right size and has the rake that I like. I started messing with it today. I don't know how it will perform but it will look awesome. If it produces the same powerband as the junk 2 intake manifold, I am going to be so happy.

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[GPTourer]

It would be cool to have a company like Edlebrock makes a manifold for our car. However I doubt they would do so since they might not get enough purchase to offset tooling and engineer cost.

Well that's what I mean, very little engineering involved if an existing design works as well as you say it does. Tooling up for a different flange that fits right, well yeah that costs money too, but not nearly as much as starting from scratch.

 

[El Cuervo]

I'm excited to run this manifold soon. Thanks to Thoais (killercolt) idea of modifying and properly port matching the honda intake manifold flange to mate with the 1g dsm head, I'll be the first one to run an edelbrock intake manifold on a dsm.. Not only that but we will now have much more options when it comes to intake manifolds.
On hondas, this manifold is design to make power from 3000rpms to 7800rpms. Lets see if it holds true. Either way, it should perform better in low to mid range rpms than almost anything out there for the dsms.
I personally choose this manifold for that reason. Nobody offers a decent manifold that caters to low end power and mid range. All the ones out there are for high end. The only other intake manifold that did cater to low and mid range was the hawver cast intake manifold. This manifold was a piece of art. Sturdy as hell and very very inexpensive. It trump over any manifold out there. However, hawver discontinued them already and it seems like they don't have any plans on producing them anymore.
Now I personally don't care too much for the cyclone intake and the butterfly system. I believe that the same results can be achieve with a single port intake manifold and maybe even better ones. Killercolt has proven it.
Maybe these findings could encourage one of the fabricators here to think a bit outside the box and develope an intake manifold that is made more for lowend and mid range power as oppose to a manifold that just starts to make power at 8000rpms. Some of us don't rev that high and prefer the power delivery down low and want something different other than stock or cyclone.

Either way, thanks killercolt for bringing a new idea and opening the doors for more products for the dsm.

 

[killercolt]

I am glad you are taking one for the team El Cuervo.

 

[El Cuervo]

I am glad you are taking one for the team El Cuervo.

You bet!!