Precision (PTE) Ball Bearing Turbos, What do you guys think?

[JusMX141]

It adds that much mis-calibration . I uses a 2g maf with my last setup and swapped to a drawthrough maft. The a/f curve remained pretty much the same falling to 10.5:1 by 6K and staying there to redline. I switched it to blow through and it ran me to 9:1 or richer. My airflow number went up . But fortunately I have dsmlink and recalibrated. I used the BEP bolton housing with the t31 turbine wheel with that same 6031 compressor (60-1 ecover) and I couldn't get over 52 lb/min at 32psi. I basically had an scm6031 with the bep housing which doesn't appear to be smaller than the .63 bolton PTE housing and has a better volute design.

Always a wealth of knowledge. Someday I will shake your hand for providing so much useful info.

 

[BIGBLAZE79]

I have the SCM4431R on my Talon. It has 3-4K miles so far and it has no shaft play. I don't have a good review for ya yet. Unfortunately my fuel setup is only good for about 18PSI My stock exhaust is still on it ( stock down pipe and cat back, eliminated the cat and put a cheep eBay straight through muffler.) I got my 1000cc and fuel setup, just need to install. I also have full 3" exhaust I just need to have a bung welded on for the wideband.

I would say at 18psi it pulls harder than my 16G did when I ran a 12.9 quarter. Full spool is late around 4800RPM. I haven't even tuned the car with DSM link yet. Waitin till everything is installed. The car def feels the fastest it ever has and I plan on runnin 25 - 30PSI on race gas at the track. I have a feeling this turbo is gonna scream There is not a lot of info on this turbo. We'll see how it does

 

[JusMX141]

I have the SCM4431R on my Talon.....Full spool is late around 4800RPM.

You're seeing 4800rpm spool out of a ball bearing turbo in a DSM bolt-on housing?

So, at best, you have 2200rpms of useable power until you're against the stock rev limiter. What a kick in the balls that has to be.

 

[BIGBLAZE79]

You're seeing 4800rpm spool out of a ball bearing turbo in a DSM bolt-on housing?

So, at best, you have 2200rpms of useable power until you're against the stock rev limiter. What a kick in the balls that has to be.

Dude dsmlink I set the revlimiter to whatever I want. It builds boost before that, just not full boost. That's with stock exhaust pretty much, no antilag or tune. When I launch at 5500 RPM I don't feel any lag at all. The car just freekin takes off like a bat out of hell. The rest of the gears its full boost pullin hard. I'm actually real happy so far and can't wait to crank up the boost into this turbo's efficiency range ~25PSI.

Just a few more things to install Pump/1000CC inj/ FPR/3"exh/wideband and I will be able to tune and really enjoy this turbo.

 

[JusMX141]

Ahh your stock exhaust is what's contributing to the slow spool FOR SURE. I must've overlooked that in the first post.

My buddy from MD made it to the 12's with the full stock exhaust on his '95 TSi AWD 6-bolt boosting a TD05H 20G, and he wasn't seeing full boost until 4500+ with that turbo either....which is unheard of. It should've been more like 3800.

 

[dsm-onster]

Full boost by 4800rpms is late using a t31 turbine wheel with even 272s. . . Even for a BB garrett turbo . Something is wrong or you've proven that PTE turbos are NOT a good invesment. I see full boost 1300rpms sooner with a turbo that flows more than yours uptop. I paid under $500 for my entire setup including the external wastegate. I saved $200 using an ebay wastegate and modifying my own tubular o2 housing for the external gate.

Launching at 5500rpms and shifting at redline in every gear is NOT a street situation, autox situation, or any other situation other than a dragstrip situation. But it will take that to get into full boost and stay there going through the gears. What rpm do you have to end 1st gear in to shift in second at 5K.

Which gear are you referencing? Stock exhaust will choke you for sure. But, I think something else is wrong. If you swap to bigger exhaust, please report back your results. It would be interesting to see how much spool speed you saved.

 

[bob123131]

I went with a cheap holset in the past and it worked great not to say its better than most of the turbo's we are looking at here, but defintly a consideration if your on a budget. Also in regards to a preious post the evo 3 despite all the talk about it, isnt going to get you 350 whp without a huge amount of other upgrades. Typically the majority of people out there haven't been able to come close to its 380 rating without spray or a spray cooler. Not saying its impossible, but not a good path for your goals.

 

[BIGBLAZE79]

Full boost by 4800rpms is late using a t31 turbine wheel with even 272s. . . Even for a BB garrett turbo . Something is wrong or you've proven that PTE turbos are NOT a good invesment. I see full boost 1300rpms sooner with a turbo that flows more than yours uptop. I paid under $500 for my entire setup including the external wastegate. I saved $200 using an ebay wastegate and modifying my own tubular o2 housing for the external gate.

Launching at 5500rpms and shifting at redline in every gear is NOT a street situation, autox situation, or any other situation other than a dragstrip situation. But it will take that to get into full boost and stay there going through the gears. What rpm do you have to end 1st gear in to shift in second at 5K.

Which gear are you referencing? Stock exhaust will choke you for sure. But, I think something else is wrong. If you swap to bigger exhaust, please report back your results. It would be interesting to see how much spool speed you saved.

Well I got a bung welded on for the wideband and installed the full 3" exhaust. The turbo spools much sooner now. It is still laggy, but that is to be expected for a big turbo. At 3K RPM in 5th gear if I floor it. I see full boost (18PSI fuel limited) at approx 3600RPM. If I floor it in low second gear then it hits full boost at around 3900. It builds boost even at 3K in fith gear, It's only 5PSI then works its way up. I still need to finish the wideband install and fuel. My goal is to have a strong race gas turbo for the drag strip. I don't race people on the street so I mostly want to see how low of a quarter mile time I can run at the track with race gas.

 

[dsm-onster]

That's much better! Which turbine housing do you have? The bolton .48 a/r or the bolton .63 a/r?

 

[BIGBLAZE79]

bolton .63 a/r?

 

[BIGBLAZE79]

The PTE SCM4431R has netted me 455WHP and 396WTQ at AZ Dyno chip in Chandler AZ, two weeks ago. It ran an 11.9@123 in the Quarter last may at Firebird Raceway. E85 at 25PSI.

 

[BIGBLAZE79]

Here is the dyno pull from 2K to 7.5K. log shows 50lbs/min peak with 13Deg of timing peak.

 

[gofer]

Keeping this thread updated with Tanner's (BigBlaze) results on the PTE SCM4431R, we just finished tuning his car after he did a 2yr engine rebuild after a spun bearing. This is the first car I've rode in that's got a PTE BB turbo hanging off the manifold and it failed to disappoint. The car pulled hard, spooled fast, and has a damn good torque curve to boot.

FP2's, 2.0 Eagle/Wiseco 7-bolt, and E85 running spring pressure off the external wastegate. Logging 46lbs/m running very low timing and hitting 25psi by 4.5k. I keep trying to talk him into turning up the boost to 28psi and running more than 12* of peak timing but trying to keep the car reliable since it see's the track once or twice a year.

Jus, you think this turbo could benefit running more than 25psi in the .68 A/R bolt on hot side?

 

[JusMX141]

This is the first car I've rode in that's got a PTE BB turbo hanging off the manifold and it failed to disappoint. The car pulled hard, spooled fast, and has a damn good torque curve to boot.

Comparing the 4431E (T04E60 compressor, T31 turbine) to anything made by PTE today is like apples and oranges, unfortunately.

FP2's, 2.0 Eagle/Wiseco 7-bolt, and E85 running spring pressure off the external wastegate. Logging 46lbs/m running very low timing and hitting 25psi by 4.5k. I keep trying to talk him into turning up the boost to 28psi and running more than 12* of peak timing but trying to keep the car reliable since it see's the track once or twice a year.

You're not going to get much more out of it. The 60-trim compressor likes boost- the T31 turbine in the small PTE bolt-on housing does not. The MOST airflow I've seen such a turbine housing / wheel combo allow was 49 lb/min at 29-30psi with a 6031E (T04S 60-1 compressor) many years ago...turned the boost up a bit more and the airflow stayed the same.

Customer then switched to a .82 T3 housing on the same turbo, and went with a cast Turbonetics manifold as well...and unlocked about 8 lb/min of additional airflow at the exact same boost level. That's how much a better-flowing housing can help a particular setup.

 

[gofer]

Alright, that's what Tanner kept saying too. This is honestly the only thread I've ever seen info even posted about this turbo so thought it was worth asking. The logs he had before the car spun a bearing, logs off the dyno when he put down 45Xawhp/400tq were showing 52lbs/m but might have been a bit inflated since I'm not sure if boostest/logged boost matched up. ECMLink will log a 14b flowing 60lbs/m if the tune's jacked up enough...

Thanks again for the input, we'll see what we can do on the bolt-on hot side. The car's ripping on the current setup, scared to know how hard it would pull in the t3 hot side if it's that big of a difference on the same amount of boost.

 

[twicks69]

Way back in the dark ages when I had my 6031E T31, and then the latter SCM6176S T350, SCM6176SP T350 and SC61 T4 P-trim, I hit a brick wall at that 29-30psi range and the turbos sort of sucked below 25psi, and were safely maxing out in the 25-28psi range. Changed the turbine housing and made another like 75-100AWHP, and gained 10mph in the 1/4 mile. Didn't really lose any spool, gained a metric shitton of mid and high rpm power as well as the ability to turn the boost up further.

In comparison to the technology today, the T31 wheel is in the stone age. Keep it below 30psi on the Mitsu housing. You won't find too much more peak airflow out of it with a bigger housing, but you will definitely still benefit from it with better overall powerband.

 

[gofer]

Hahahaha, you're speaking gibberish with all those turbos because I've got no idea w.tf any of that means.

I understand what you're saying though, we'll keep it above 25psi and below 30psi while I'm talking him into running a different turbo. It's a PTE so odds are it won't like the oil pressure and implode anyway...

 

[twicks69]

, it easily could!

I don't really mind the new PTE Gen 2 6266, but I prefer to have a ball bearing turbocharger with a water cooled center cartridge over the air-cooled cartridges that do have a known failure rate in high abuse setups (like ours ).

 

[JusMX141]

I hit a brick wall at that 29-30psi range and the turbos sort of sucked below 25psi, and were safely maxing out in the 25-28psi range. Changed the turbine housing and made another like 75-100AWHP, and gained 10mph in the 1/4 mile. Didn't really lose any spool, gained a metric sh**ton of mid and high rpm power as well as the ability to turn the boost up further.

That's exactly what happened to the 6031E I was speaking of. Car was a COMPLETELY different animal with a better-flowing housing despite the rest of the turbo being exactly the same. That was also the exact moment I learned the PTE DSM-flanged housings weren't worth their own weight in sh!t.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Interesting info. Ive got the gen2 6466 well ser how that goes in the 1.15AR t4 twinn scroll. I think the new garretts that have ceramic bb are air cooled also now, but I'm not positive.

Gofer you can ride in my car when inget it down to scottsdale, I'm still a manifold away from it running again

 

[twicks69]

Still looks like water lines on the GT, GTX, and GTW ball bearing cartridges to me.

The 6466 on that housing will do just fine.