Ball bearing PTE 50 trim

[JOEY A]

Depends what your looking for. If you want low-end torque and a little (little) better driveability then the stock cams are what u want. But i would have to say the top end gain from cams is WELL worth the 300-400rpm spool loss. Trust me.

Just throw in a set of 264s then....

 

[Shane2GSX]

I've got my PTE 5031RE ready to install. Now, I'm looking for a manifold. Does anybody know if the Evo GT manifold listed below would push the turbo out too much causing me to have to dent the water pipe even more? Or would the turbo flange on the bottom be thick enough to clear the water pipe?

http://www.turbochargers.com/store/...d=121&osCsid=429a2437e5982bbe34dd6db0e9be24d8

For those wondering, I had to dent my water pipe.


I got my dbb50 trim installed, primed it, let it ilde for 10 mins and took it out for a drive. All seems well, but the only thing I see is that out of first gear I don't start building some good boost (15psi) until about 4500 rpms. Now, this is obviously untuned and with the mods in my profile (BC 272's, XS Power FMIC w/short route piping). Is this normal?? I've saw others in this thread say they build boost around 3500 rpms. This is concerning to me. Shouldn't I be building boost faster?? Thanks in advance.

 

[JOEY A]

Boost Leak

 

[fwdeclipse]

There is not alot of load on the motor in 1st gear so I would not say that is that abnormal. I am running a t4 60trim and I dont get 25psi in 1st until 6500.

 

[Shane2GSX]

So what RPM's are you guys seeing 20 psi by in 1st gear?

 

[JOEY A]

Poor tune could also play into lag

 

[Shane2GSX]

Well, it's not tuned at all. I didn't adjust anything, just drove it..

 

[Shane2GSX]

So what RPM's are you guys seeing 20 psi by in 1st gear?

Anybody?

 

[nicknorth11]

I bought an internally gated 5031RE and it instantly smoked. I sent it back to PTE and am currently waiting for them to inspect it and send a new one back. My question is this, has anyone had a problem with too much oil pressure? I have a 2.3L with no balance shafts and see really high oil pressure. I asked PTE about the sufficiency of the restrictor and my setup in particular and they answered in an indirect way. Do you guys think the supplied restrictor will work fine for all levels of oil pressure?

 

[blcknspo0ln]

I ran just the restricter from my ofh on my stock 7 bolt (still had balance shafts) and it didn't do any damage to my turbo. I'm sure you know, but the best bet is running the restricter with the feed line from the head. bb turbo's don't require the 100+psi of oil pressure that'll be cranked out on a non-BS engine.

 

[tbTalonES94]

Anybody?

If I can remember right there wasn't much difference. I was seeing 22psi by atleast 4,000 in 1st gear. Most of the time 1st gear was useless though besides at the track. When I would be building 15psi with a 5,500 2-step....

 

[Shane2GSX]

Well, I did a boost leak test and fixed a few major boost leaks. I still have two very small ones, so I ordered the Larson Hose Kit from RRE to fix those. Now I'm hitting 14 psi by 36-3700 RPMS in 3rd gear. That still seems pretty slow. My guess is I'd probably hit 20 after 4000 RPMS in 3rd. I'm not liking that.

My question is, how much of a difference should I expect in spool with a good tune?

 

[JOEY A]

Well, I did a boost leak test and fixed a few major boost leaks. I still have two very small ones, so I ordered the Larson Hose Kit from RRE to fix those. Now I'm hitting 14 psi by 36-3700 RPMS in 3rd gear. That still seems pretty slow. My guess is I'd probably hit 20 after 4000 RPMS in 3rd. I'm not liking that.

My question is, how much of a difference should I expect in spool with a good tune?

Dont even beat on it until its tuned man...

 

[Shane2GSX]

I'm not sure why you said that. It really doesn't answer my question. If it's for safety reasons, I have logged that I am running 10.5-10.8 AFR with no knock, so I think I'm good in that department.

 

[ZmanIV]

AFR sounds fine if those numbers are under boost and not just crusing.
There are no pre turbo leaks right?
Where did you get your turbo from?
Is it ported, is the waste gate divided?

 

[Shane2GSX]

Under boost, Open Loop.
Not that I'm aware of.
Import Evolution.
It was originally setup for a WG on the manifold, then I had it drilled through and the hole was ported so I could use a WG on the O2.

 

[nightspeed87]

I bought an internally gated 5031RE and it instantly smoked. I sent it back to PTE and am currently waiting for them to inspect it and send a new one back. My question is this, has anyone had a problem with too much oil pressure? I have a 2.3L with no balance shafts and see really high oil pressure. I asked PTE about the sufficiency of the restrictor and my setup in particular and they answered in an indirect way. Do you guys think the supplied restrictor will work fine for all levels of oil pressure?

Most definitly port your relief valve in your oil filter housing...

I ran just the restricter from my ofh on my stock 7 bolt (still had balance shafts) and it didn't do any damage to my turbo. I'm sure you know, but the best bet is running the restricter with the feed line from the head. bb turbo's don't require the 100+psi of oil pressure that'll be cranked out on a non-BS engine.

On a nice expensive turbo like this I wouldnt tap from the head.
Tap from the oil filter housing with the correct size restrictor, and a ported relief valve
is the engine doesnt have any balance shafts...

Also what are the spool times with a 2.3 stroker on this turbo, and how is the top end.
Any stroker guy reviews with this? I plan on going stroker...

 

[Shane2GSX]

I'm now getting about 20 psi by about 4000-4100 RPMs in 3rd gear. So that's a little closer, but I think my BC 272's have something to do with that.. haha.

It's still not completely tuned yet, as I keep seeing knock (3 counts or slightly above) when at anything over 18 psi, even running rich and with timing set at base. Anybody have these problems?

I'm thinking it's related to my intake temps being 90+ and even 100+ during some runs and my coolant being 200+. I'm working on getting those down.

 

[dsm-onster]

One way to drop coolant temps is to simply wire your fans to stay on all the time while the ignition is on. It dropped my coolant temps from 205 in the summer to 189-192.

A good cool source for air intake is more important now that you have a decent sized turbo that can push some good air. Intake temps have a slightly more impact on outlet charge tems than even running 10 or so percent less efficiency on your compressor map. Crap in; crap out. So, get those intake temps down so your intercooler doesn't have to do all that work on it's own. Besides, a cooler denser air mass into the engine means hotter and MORE mass out heading to the turbine. More mass equals quicker spool if you have atleast the same exhaust gas temps and volume flow.

Also, running that rich to compensate for knock is aiding in the slow spool. A good lean burn yields hotter exhaust gasses. Hotter gas into the turbine helps spool tremendously.

You could retard your timing 1 or 2 degrees to help stop you knock, but any more neccesary and I'd look elsewhere for an actual problem causing knock. Also, you'll get the second benefit of helping spool a little bit, too. There is nothing wrong w/ retarding your timing at the proper place in the rev range as long as soon after full boost hits you're shooting for at least the stock timing curve from there to redline.

 

[Shane2GSX]

Fans are setup to run all the time (DSMLink).

To help with temps I made a block off for the K&N and also put header wrap on my DP and exhaust manifold along and put the heat shield over top of that. I'm also going to flush my coolant and run 70/30 along with water wetter. I also bought a 170* thermostat if I end up needing it.

I thought advancing timing aided in faster spool and not retarding..

I'd love to run at 11:1 but I see knock too frequently for that. So right now I have it at 10:5:1 and below.. still getting knock every once in a while. That's with no added timing.

I'm also getting backfiring here and there and the car smells rich. I did a boost leak test up to 20psi and only had a small leak somewhere around the intake mannifold, but I didn't think that was a big deal.

 

[dsm-onster]

Fans are setup to run all the time (DSMLink).

To help with temps I made a block off for the K&N and also put header wrap on my DP and exhaust manifold along and put the heat shield over top of that. I'm also going to flush my coolant and run 70/30 along with water wetter. I also bought a 170* thermostat if I end up needing it.

I thought advancing timing aided in faster spool and not retarding..

Definately no. It may 'feel' like you have a quicker spool. But only because you'll gain HP to rush through the rpms to a later point where you'll gain boost quickly. Antilag setups work on the same principle of timing retard. The timing is HEAVILY retarded (positive degrees ATDC). Whether or not you even have fuel dump, it helps.

But I have to say, I'm not sure that you should retard you timing if your running the base timing map. I havn't tuned one of those suckers. But, it would help spool. Whether or not it helps your horsepower curve is just my speculation.

May be the NGK "7"`s are not enough? I have to run 8's w out water injection and, even then, I'm getting more knock than I want on my 60-1. W/ 22 psi.

I'm also getting backfiring here and there and the car smells rich. I did a boost leak test up to 20psi and only had a small leak somewhere around the intake mannifold, but I didn't think that was a big deal.

How sure are you that your PLX WB02 is accurate? I know when my LM-1 w/ the bosch o2 sensor gets too close to my o2 housing it reads way lean. Even after 'heat' calibrating and everything. How's your plugs? If you smell rich, then denying it would be . . . well like an ostrich's head in the sand. . .

 

[Shane2GSX]

Well it definitely smells rich. I'm fairly sure my wb is accurate, it's only a few months old. But it does read slightly lean in closed loop when I'm supposed to be at stoich (14.7). It reads usually just above, around 15 or so but cycles down to 14.7 or slightly below on occaission. But it cycles above 14.7 more often. So idk what that means exactly..

I'm going to do another boost leak test Friday just to make sure.. Idk why else I'd be running so rich and smelling like fuel. Or if any of this is related to knock..

 

[dsm-onster]

Do a couple of good runs and check your plug color. If they're dark or black then it's likely you're running too rich. If you're unsure of the color, you can post a pick of then. And I or someone would probably be able to tell the VARY GENERAL state of tune. If you're running so rich you smell fuel, then it should be easy to notice in the plug color.

If you plugs come out faintly white, not color change from their unused color, or to a good tan color, trust your o2 sensor. Smelling gas may mean you have an injector seal/o-ring leakage and only one cylinder is real lean. But the sum of oxygen content for all the cylinders exhaust gases may still show you to be in the 10.5 range.

FWIW, I've noticed that a factory tune MOSTLY comes out to low tens to 9.4 or so by around 6K. Sometimes earlier. So reading that lean w/ no adjustment to the fuel sliders (only a base tune) would also lead me to believe that you have a fuel leak at one injector (based on just my experience). Only checking for gas would tell really.

I've heard of guys really helping their spool by getting the right oil pressure to the bearing cartridge. You might want to get an oil pressure gauge on the feed line and see where you're at.

 

[Shane2GSX]

Okay, I'll check the plugs and injectors. Thanks!!

 

[Steve Hebert]

Well just got my 5031 bb pretty well completely set up and Dyno tuned (2 hrs on the dyno)

Just thought I'd thru my 2 cents in FWIW

Quick rundownon my mods - PTE 5031DBB - denso 720 - fp2 cams - FMIC (see profile for complete)

First - spooling - based on 3rd gear pulls on Dyno
3200 5.8 psi - 3600 9.4 psi - 4100 16.7 psi - 4600 20 psi full boost

Yes definately laggier than my old sm16g - but much smoother - and at 9 PSI you definitely notice it starting to pull

We did one run at 22 psi but my inj duty was 102% so we backed down - don't have the stats for that run. Also for that reason we set the redline at 6500 (on my sm16 it was over 7500) No question with more fuel it will continue to pull beyond 7000

Yes I've read that these things really start to come alive at over 22-23 psi -
Being I am only at 19-20 now - I am not sure I am ready for that. Get used to this first

For those that need to see hp numbers - on the Mustang Dyno it was peaking between 302 and 320. For me that is my measuring point to see how much difference new injectors will allow me to make.

Overall impressions:
pretty much happy - will need to drive a little differently due to the lag compared to SM16. But where the SM16 would hit full boost fast it would only pull so hard. This thing seems to just want to keep pulling harder and harder (Was kinda scarry at first - almost felt like it had a mind of its own)

I will get bigger injectors but am in no big rush - will run it like this for a while.

Utlimately I plan on putting a stroker behind this - bring the lag down. Street car mostly.