Opinions on FWD vs. AWD

[boostedawd42]

Well I have been looking at buying another talon recently and personally I am a 1g kind of guy. I have always had AWD talons and loved them, but this time I came across one of the cleanest 1g talons I have ever seen. The only problem is that its FWD. Now I have had fast AWD talons and they are fun as hell but this car will never be a dedicated track car so I was wondering if it would be that big of a deal if it was FWD.

I am looking at making some decent power so I would like some first hand experience with people that have had FWD talons with a decent amount of power(around 400-450whp).

 

[dsm-onster]

Not breaking transmissions is a real plus. You can get too frisky and not think at the same time and break the transmission with real traction at 400ish whp.

 

[boostedawd42]

Im not the one who brags about how fast my car is when it looks like swiss cheese from all the rust. Nor do I drive around in cars with paint peeling off everywhere just because its fast. Like I have said in about three post, this car with NEVER be a dedicated track car, but it will see WOT on the streets for fun and if I am making the power that I plan to make I don't want to be spinning everytime I put the pedal down. Me never having driven a FWD talon with that kind of power made me look for outside experience, now that I have heard some I think I am going to just try to hold old for a clean 1g AWD car instead. I appreciate all the input .

 

[talondave]

Where's this thing at, and how much? I will buy it!!

 

[ilco187]

wow, alot of argument about fwd vs awd, well i have a awd and in the near future i plan on trading for a more built up fwd, i am only downgrading in traction but it has never made a difference to me, i happen to love fwd more than awd.

 

[FactoryChrome]

Lol, acting like high hp fwd cars cannot be fast and keep traction. There are Hondas in Dallas that will smoke most of the cars on this board. I hate honda as much as the next dsm guy but don't even give me that crap about traction. Get a solution to your boost control problems and traction becomes a non issue.

MBC and a heavy footed driver in FWD will probably never get traction even on the highway. Yes, you cannot just mash the gas like AWD and go... and this is why I said you must be skilled. FWD is not for the kiddos, that's for sure because it's definitely more dangerous for those with not much throttle control (or a good option for boost control for that matter).

BTW Liquid, before you go telling me to do reading, I've been in the game (and on this board) for a lot longer than you provided your reg date is the first one.

edit:

and here's a fwd auto car w/ 16g that is faster than MANY awd's that are running larger turbos... o
Car does have progressive boost (controlled by the factory ecu) that closes the MAC valve all the way at 40mph thus giving full boost.
Notice that traction is not a problem and there are no special drag tires on that car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNGtKKo-ObU

 

[pboglio]

I used to launch with the electronic boost controller off, then at 4500-5000 rpms I'd activate it with the FWD. I think people here who are commenting know what they are talking about. With modern boost controls with rpm mapping, some things can be done, but do not kid yourself that in the real world of every day driving you will have nothing but wheelspin when the boost hits hard. I get wheelspin launching on my WRX STi and I cannot stand it. Buy whatever makes you happy, but people who have run a FWD with even mild power know it is a different kind of headache.

 

[boostedawd42]

Where's this thing at, and how much? I will buy it!!

Its in Eastern NC. $2500 comes with JE Pistons/Eagle Rods, FMIC with 2.5" hard piping, Big 16g, Full 3" TBE., ACT 2100, 107k Original miles and its CLEAN.

 

[92AWDHX40]

I guess this thread is about opionons, I do plan on owning a awd, ive learned so much from this site and others. That build should be really fun, with the knowledge i now have.

 

[dsm-onster]

edit:

and here's a fwd auto car w/ 16g that is faster than MANY awd's that are running larger turbos... o
Car does have progressive boost (controlled by the factory ecu) that closes the MAC valve all the way at 40mph thus giving full boost.
Notice that traction is not a problem and there are no special drag tires on that car.

YouTube - 11 Second Eagle Summit

Apples to apples comparison, instead of comparing one persons skillset to anothers. . . Imagine what his ET would be if he had a better power curve before 45ish mph? Like at the most critical point: the 60ft. Not having traction means that he had to slow the spool speed through the 60ft and after.

 

[JayRolla]

FWD is wrong wheel drive. Made for the snow and that's about it.

 

[dsm93turbo]

Id just wait and look around for a clean awd. In my 90 talon anytime boost hits it just spins 1st -2nd even partial throttle i hate it.

 

[jrohner]

FWD=spin
AWD=go

I was FWD for a while because of an issue, and I could be going along at 50-60 and smoke the tires. If I turned the boost way down to like 17, I would pretty much have traction in third if the road was warm and clean. This was when I was still on stock cams and a SMIC at 340fwhp on a dyno dynamics.

The first couple burnouts were fun, but after that it just got old. I did help my fuel mileage though (not being able to even give it 1/3 throttle most of the time), getting 20mpg on fairly short trips on E85. If I was fwd I'd have to go with an automatic, as then you at least have a chance at some traction because of the indirect connection of the engine to the wheels (the torque converter).

 

[99gst_racer]

Lol, acting like high hp fwd cars cannot be fast and keep traction. There are Hondas in Dallas that will smoke most of the cars on this board. I hate honda as much as the next dsm guy but don't even give me that crap about traction. Get a solution to your boost control problems and traction becomes a non issue.

MBC and a heavy footed driver in FWD will probably never get traction even on the highway. Yes, you cannot just mash the gas like AWD and go... and this is why I said you must be skilled. FWD is not for the kiddos, that's for sure because it's definitely more dangerous for those with not much throttle control (or a good option for boost control for that matter).

You know what sucks? Modulating the throttle for the sake of traction. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it's a crappy bandaid. The entire time you're doing it, you're wondering how fast your car would be if you could go WOT and hook. The same could be said for running low boost until a certain RPM or MPH. I can't say that I would ever be content with handicapping my car for the sake of traction. Especially not when we have an available AWD platform.

 

[dsm-onster]

Yea. I come from a GST that has had a 60-1 and an h1c. It really is rather terrible. I have to use dsmlink to activate solenoids to reduce the boost back down the base wastegate pressure and even then, I need to modulate depending on the track conditions. All this with a 2.5" drop, drag radials, LSD, lightened rear to change the cg point even more, and shims that lower the rear connection of the front control arm so that the tires dig when accelerating. Couldn't see my self doing the ELHS mod since I kept going through axles even though I was still spinning alot more than awd. I finally upgraded to a 1993-1994 diff and the thicker shafts. Alot of power through just two half shafts when you DO finally get traction is a whole other world of dangerous problems.

At 300whp, it was fun and very worthwhile though. Less weight AND drivetrain loss means that you can still get the heart beating. A FWD tranny is built for the highway. I loved taking my FWD with the small 16g at 20psi with stock cams on long trips. Not nuts with power but had good gears to make it enjoyable and it was light with less loss, so it felt just as good as the AWD with the small 16g maxed out completely.

If the FWD is nice, get it and just push the stock turbo and cams to the limit. It will be a great commuter/fun/low maintainance car. I really think a FWD car with about 300whp is as fast as an AWD car with 350whp from a roll, so you will have an ejoyable experience in one (remember to stay withine reason, don't treat it like a track car on the highway).

 

[mikejsmith1985]

I say go for it if it's clean and low miles. It isn't a track car its a DD. I am driving my 98 gst with a garret 50 trim @20 psi, quaife lsd, IPT Auto tranny, and all the normal bolt ons. It is extremely reliable I have never dynoed but based on the DSM link its running around 400hp.(No idea if its accurate nor do I care I built it till it was fun to drive) Yes wheel spin is inevitable when the boost hits hard but this is by far the most fun car I have ever owned. on the highway my brothers 07 vette stays in my rearview, Not too bad for a FWD Daily Driver. My $.02

 

[ExpresS]

Lol, acting like high hp fwd cars cannot be fast and keep traction. There are Hondas in Dallas that will smoke most of the cars on this board. I hate honda as much as the next dsm guy but don't even give me that crap about traction. Get a solution to your boost control problems and traction becomes a non issue.

MBC and a heavy footed driver in FWD will probably never get traction even on the highway. Yes, you cannot just mash the gas like AWD and go... and this is why I said you must be skilled. FWD is not for the kiddos, that's for sure because it's definitely more dangerous for those with not much throttle control (or a good option for boost control for that matter).

BTW Liquid, before you go telling me to do reading, I've been in the game (and on this board) for a lot longer than you provided your reg date is the first one.

edit:

and here's a fwd auto car w/ 16g that is faster than MANY awd's that are running larger turbos... o
Car does have progressive boost (controlled by the factory ecu) that closes the MAC valve all the way at 40mph thus giving full boost.
Notice that traction is not a problem and there are no special drag tires on that car.

YouTube - 11 Second Eagle Summit

I completely agree with you. AWD dsm guys frown upon FWD dsm's. I'd like to see most of these AWD guys get on Joe bucci's level of racing. What nonsense..i'm not jumping on the AWD bandwagon.

 

[tunethis]

I have yet to see a 7 second FWD DSM though. I've owned both FWD and AWD DSM's. Both have advantages and disadvantages. The AWD has more traction, period. Also, you can't beat AWD in all weather conditions.

 

[dsm-onster]

I completely agree with you. AWD dsm guys frown upon FWD dsm's. I'd like to see most of these AWD guys get on Joe bucci's level of racing. What nonsense..i'm not jumping on the AWD bandwagon.

Good for you. You'll need to do what he did to the car too. Have fun driving a 10 second FWD car. I know I'll have fun with my awd version. I'll still have power windows, a trunk floor, quiet cab, tires that last over 5000miles, the ability to roll overspeed bumps, and stock axles. I don't know as much as Joe Bucci knows. Sorry not on his level of racing. Likely neither are you. So you'll be back at 12s like I was with my FWD car . Joe picked it for a challenge, like Kiggly, not for an advantage.

FWD cars are great road cars. Fun on trips since the gearing is really nice for 65ish mph and actually don't handle that bad around the twisties if you know the car. Regardless, any joker who thinks that AWD doesn't provide a vastly superior advantage has never built up both platforms past 300whp.

 

[habitatguy187]

FWD sucks. Don't get one just wait for an awd to pop up. I've regretted it for a long time now and will soon be on the lookout for an awd.

 

[toofast82]

With the proper supporting traction mods, you can still net decent 60' times with a fwd. I've seen videos of decent launches coming from plenty of hondas, fwd dsms and srts
The launches may not be as good as the awd, but its a 1/4mile, not a 60'track. Plus there's a top-end advantage to be had from pushing two wheels on the "big end"
Plus when picking up a used 1g awd dsm, plan on every bushing in the rear needing replacement.
Both have their advantages and disadvantages though

 

[burkgonzo]

Well I have a fwd laser turbo and I just bought a 91 gsx. I plan on using the gsx at the strip and the laser as a fun (non braking) DD. The first time I drove my Laser I loved how fast that little 14b snail came on! Traction was a small issue at first, but I learned to drive it better and when to get out of that lower gear. Point is do what you want to do and deal with it or sell it! As of today I have 3 Laser FWD turbos and 1 91 Gsx.

 

[boostedawd42]

Well I went and drove the car and I honestly don't think its worth it. I was spinning so hard that it just wasn't fun at all.

 

[jrohner]

You just aren't going to have amazing traction on the street like an all-out FWD drag car gets. You can't compare the two. When I saw Kiggly's Laser, I think it got < 1.3 60' times, you really think that would be a great street car? Also, good luck on the street with wheelie bars that hold the weight on the frontend like FWD dragracer do; I don't see why that's even legal in racing, as it's totally bogus IMO.

 

[habitatguy187]

Also, good luck on the street with wheelie bars that hold the weight on the frontend like FWD dragracer do; I don't see why that's even legal in racing, as it's totally bogus IMO.

Agreed. I think wheelie bars are pretty lame.

 

[pwnzer]

off topic but to jrohner i think you have your timeslip backwards