FWD vs. AWD

[mifirefghtr4g63]

Ok now I searched for this and couldn't find my answer. So I am apologizing in advance if this is not the right place to post. Anyway I am selling the SS and looking for a 4g63. I want a awd but I have found a really nice fwd tsi close by. I won't have the SS for much longer so I need a car. Now I obviously know a stock awd will beat a stock fwd cause they launch way better. I am wondering though if it is possible to build a decently fast fwd and run in the 13's or should I just wait longer for a awd. Money wise what would be a cheaper bet to run 13's?

 

[alanqning]

From a dead stop, a AWD will be faster. From a roll the FWD can put more power down to the ground. There is less drivetrain loss in a FWD then there is in a AWD.

I love my FWD, i have beaten SRT4's from rolls at about 30ish. The car hooks and pulls real nice.

FWD is also better for the snow.

Now, if you want a AWD, make it a 1g at least. Then it can be as fast as possible

AWD is better for the Snow... ...

Given everyone's input so far I personally would get the FWD

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

I just gave up my AWd for a FWD because it was in better condition and I wanted to give every aspect of DSMs a shot. ^^ The only thing I hadn't owned was a Boosted FWD.. and better yet this one was a 2G which I also hadn't tried. I'll tell you this.. I never regret it.

Sure.. I lost the awesome handling and the AWD launches.. but this car is just perfect. It's quick. It pulls very hard. It's kind of appealing to hear the tires chirp in those hard shifts. Do I feel bad for giving up my AWD for this? No. Why? Because you can find AWD's for cheap. I'm using this GST for DDing and have an AWD Laser that I'll begin work on soon enough for my 'beast' of a DSM.

My advice? Get whichever you want. Get the GST just to get into the DSM world. The fact that it's a GST will help you not jump in over your head and try to upgrade it mindlessly. Move in slowly and get your heard right with it. I've already learned so much just from switching to FWD and have learned the little things to appreciate in AWD.

^^

Also, just for reference.

AWD - Your advantage is from a launch. Period.
FWD - Your Advantage is acceleration.

An AWD weighs more and suffers from more drivetrain loss. You can deduct about 10% from the WHP compaired to a GST. AWD also has more moving parts and more things to break such as T-cases and Rear Diffs. They do handle better, however.

A GST has an advantage in acceleration, but suffers from lack of traction/grip. Wheel hop will quickly destroy the vehicle, so advanced messures in suspension to keep the wheels in contact with the ground will need to be taken. It also has a lack of a multitude of moving parts and assembly, so less to break.

 

[donniekak]

All of the people saying fwd is better from a roll have never smoked the front tires at 80 mph with drag radials. With slicks, an lsd, and on the track fwd hooks ok. On the street anything over 350whp becomes a smoke show.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

All of the people saying fwd is better from a roll have never smoked the front tires at 80 mph with drag radials. With slicks, an lsd, and on the track fwd hooks ok. On the street anything over 350whp becomes a smoke show.

This is VERY, VERY true. Infact, high powered AWD's have the same issue without the right traction. I've seen this first hand.. passing me...-_-;

However, it all depends on how you drive. If you floor it then I'm sure you'll break loose easily. I would imagine with the larger turbo's and pushing over 350FWHP, that you can get the correct suspension/tire combination, ease into the gas a bit, and avoid breaking loose so badly. But I am only assuming. I'm only aiming for about 300 for my own.

Then again, I never said FWD was better than AWD. ;3 I simply stated the facts and that I like both.. and don't regret going FWD over AWD for my daily.

 

[dsm-onster]

You'll not want to stop at mid 13s. With my fwd, I went 13.4 with the 14b, stock fuel, stock intercooler, larger than stock street tires, close to stock weight.

After getting slicks and breaking axles just to run 12s and then sticking with it just to break more axles, I eventually gave in. I am SO glad that I have an awd vs. fwd car for a 320+ whp setup. You will NOT be satisfied with 13s. . . It's too easy to get power from the 4g63 to net 12s with an awd car and still not ever break the tranny/transfer/rear/axles. You'll be pouting everytime you see a 14b guy run 12s. Because you'll know you're going to spend about as much money in suspension/tire mods as an awd shell or rebuilvable awd car to match it; then just break an axle attempting. All for one glory run.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

You'll not want to stop at mid 13s. With my fwd, I went 13.4 with the 14b, stock fuel, stock intercooler, larger than stock street tires, close to stock weight.

After getting slicks and breaking axles just to run 12s and then sticking with it just to break more axles, I eventually gave in. I am SO glad that I have an awd vs. fwd car for a 320+ whp setup. You will NOT be satisfied with 13s. . . It's too easy to get power from the 4g63 to net 12s with an awd car and still not ever break the tranny/transfer/rear/axles. You'll be pouting everytime you see a 14b guy run 12s. Because you'll know you're going to spend about as much money in suspension/tire mods to match then just break an axle. All for one glory run.

Shouldn't we be advocating slow learning in opposition to running 12's immediately? Haha. I know, for me at least, that knowing the limitations of a GST is stopping me from blowing money on every upgrade that I can fathom. I think a GST is a good entry base to come into the DSM world with. With AWD, you have to learn a LOT, fast. I know I did. Screw that damned T-Case.. @__@ Almost fell on my head.

Now I do prefer AWD over FWD a bit more because I want power.. but if you're smart about it, you can have fun with a GST and in the meantime, learn from it and later on be working towards a powerhouse AWD. ^^

 

[dsm-onster]

Shouldn't we be advocating slow learning in opposition to running 12's immediately?

I said:

You'll not want to stop at mid 13s. With my fwd, I went 13.4 with the 14b, stock fuel, stock intercooler, larger than stock street tires, close to stock weight.

Not stopping at 13s means that you achieved that goal along the way. You don't have to start off with fwd to learn how to run 13s. Besides you can't learn how to run 13s with an awd using a fwd platform. Or vice versa. You have to start from scratch when you move from one to the other, in which ever direction you go. He's not going to want to stay with 13s.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

I said:



Not stopping at 13s means that you achieved that goal along the way. You don't have to start off with fwd to learn how to run 13s. Besides you can't learn how to run 13s with an awd using a fwd platform. Or vice versa. You have to start from scratch when you move from one to the other, in which ever direction you go. He's not going to want to stay with 13s.

o.-a Hm.. I'll just drop the point.. though the knowledge I've gained both from my N/T and my GSX has assisted me in slowly getting this 2G GST into better shape than when I got it. I know you'll always be tempted to go fast.. that's the curse of the DSM.

So in short.. do whatever feels best. 4G63T, FWD or AWD, is a great platform and either buy will be a pleasure if you have the patience to learn about them and keep the maintenance up.

 

[99gst_racer]

From a roll the FWD can put more power down to the ground.

This will only apply up to a certain power level.

For example; compare a 450whp FWD vs. 450whp AWD and the AWD car will be the one putting more power to the ground. FWD wheelspin is acceleration's party pooper.

 

[defury]

So its pretty much an awful idea to build a FWD? Curious because I was going to pick one up for a project (thread in the forums) but thinking twice about it from the last few posts in this thread.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

So its pretty much an awful idea to build a FWD? Curious because I was going to pick one up for a project (thread in the forums) but thinking twice about it from the last few posts in this thread.

For Raw power? Yes. You'll spend twice as much getting that power to the ground as you will simply hitting the same power level in an AWD.

 

[99gst_racer]

So its pretty much an awful idea to build a FWD? Curious because I was going to pick one up for a project (thread in the forums) but thinking twice about it from the last few posts in this thread.

With 400 WHP, a Quaife LSD, and good tires, I couldn't get traction at WOT below 80 mph. Now, with more power and AWD, I get traction in every gear. I'm 110% sold on AWD. It's just makes for a much more enjoyable ride. In my opinion, the added weight and greater drivetrain power loss are small potatoes compared to the benefit of having traction all the time.

 

[defury]

With 400 WHP, a Quaife LSD, and good tires, I couldn't get traction at WOT below 80 mph. Now, with more power and AWD, I get traction in every gear. I'm 110% sold on AWD. It's just makes for a much more enjoyable ride. In my opinion, the added weight and greater drivetrain power loss are small potatoes compared to the benefit of having traction all the time.

Well I have the opportunity to get a FWD for 200$ to build which is why i was going to go with it but if its not really worth the effort then I might just get it and part it out.

 

[CDgr97GSX]

Well I have the opportunity to get a FWD for 200$ to build which is why i was going to go with it but if its not really worth the effort then I might just get it and part it out.

I wouldn't think twice to buy it...but i would build only an AWD car.

 

[dsm-onster]

Yea, drivetrain loses are minimal when you still get more to the ground. It's about how much of that power propels you, not how much gets to the wheels.

 

[_Madman_]

Well, I drive FWD car and so far I'm very glad with the decision. With light mods I'm beating all lightly modded GSXes even in 1/8 mile, and the track times of my car are better than those of lightly modded GSXes or Evo 8/9.

Of course, I have Quaife and that changed the car by 100%. But overall, I'd say build FWD to 300/350 hp, then switch the shell. AWD is dog slow on the track until you have some serious power, 25% or so in drive-train losses is a lot.

And you'll have to spend quite a lot of money and time to make a reliable engine that can produce 350HP.

 

[Thomas91169]

i do all my "spirited" driving on either the freeway or fun twisty drives.

AWD was not necessary, nor does the Spyder come with a factory AWD system, and nothing beats blasting through some canyon twisties with the top down and Tool blaring. Thus my choice. Though ive had two 1g AWD's to play with, i like the 2gB Spyder better.

Id stick with AWD if you do alot of 1/4mi racing. Its going to hinder you if you play on freeways though.....

After almost getting wiped out at the track by some pos chevelle rustbucket in my 03 Cobra, i wont be going back. Not worth it. $50 for 3 runs and 2hr waits between each only to drive a mere 1320' in 12 seconds? *yawn*. Id rather spend $50 in gas and go for a nice 4-5hr drive down hwy49 or up and down Mt Hamilton or just blast to the beach and cruise hwy1 along the coast.



In the end though, AWD vs FWD is based on what you want out of the car.

 

[mifirefghtr4g63]

Ya I am going to wait for a AWD.

 

[WolfsFang]

awd ftw!
YouTube - DSM LAUNCH SLOW MOTION

 

[dsm-onster]

And you'll have to spend quite a lot of money and time to make a reliable engine that can produce 350HP.

Bullsh!t.

The STOCK 7bolt block will do lay down 350whp reliably all day long. Any 16g turbo out there, tough as nails will do that easily, and even an safc and 550s with a wally 255 and alot of fuel pressure is just fine for that with pump gas. Just get a narrowly decent FMIC or VERY LARGE ebay fmic, a dime a dosen, and you're right there with reliable 350whp.

So the difference is getting it to the ground vs. leaving balls of rubber compound all over the place.

 

[BIRDCLAWTSi]

Well, I drive FWD car and so far I'm very glad with the decision. With light mods I'm beating all lightly modded GSXes even in 1/8 mile, and the track times of my car are better than those of lightly modded GSXes or Evo 8/9.

Of course, I have Quaife and that changed the car by 100%. But overall, I'd say build FWD to 300/350 hp, then switch the shell. AWD is dog slow on the track until you have some serious power, 25% or so in drive-train losses is a lot.

And you'll have to spend quite a lot of money and time to make a reliable engine that can produce 350HP.

??? Do You have a DSM???

 

[dalesmitsu]

Checkout your local Detroit metro craigslist, I'm sure you'll find an awd. If it where me I'd get the fwd and before snow falls buy a cheap 4x4 truck preferably the ranger's they go very cheap.

I'm from Michigan I would never drive either one during winter.

I miss those michigan winter's walking about a mile to school, during a level 3 snow up to my butthole. Oh, wait a minute no I don't it sucked.

 

[dcmarf]

Wheel hop-enough said-If your gonna race this car wait for a awd or break your back converting it to awd

 

[nothingfiction]

wheel hop? ha. i did away with that long ago with the stiff polyurethane motor mounts from howell automotive. Works wonders. Never had even a millisecond of hop since putting them in.

 

[dcmarf]

ha if your not getting wheel hop with those inserts then your not pushing enough horsepower Weakness Why even get inserts???