Old guy needs advice on these new "gt" turbos

[drivemusicnow]

The reason a turbo will "drop off" is because of restrictive hotsides. You could match a 14b with a very free flowing hotside and have it hold 30 psi, with the downside being that the compressor is not efficient at 30 psi, and is blowing a lot of very hot air at that point.

You said you're okay with either a mitsu or t3 flanged turbo. Do you already have both manifolds? If you only have a mitsu manifold, I'd go the FP route. either their ball bearing 50 trim, or the 3052 depending on what your realistic goals are.

If you already have a t3 manifold, any off the shelf garret turbo is available in almost whatever configuration you would want. Garretts website provides A LOT of info and is good to look through.

When MOST people talk about spool information, it is in 3rd gear, starting at 1500-2000 rpm. The general consensus from what i've seen for a 2.0 with cams and an FP3052 is 3800-4000 rpm (obviously varies quite a bit) and to ~25 psi.

Obviously these numbers change significantly with changes in VE, tuning and a hundred other things.

 

[CanadianTSi]

HTA 35R w/.63 hotside Rev it to 8K and you're golden!

Bingo

 

[turboglenn]

sady 80% of my work is porsche

I fail to see the sadness in that statement.

Their a B*tch to work on! Try and pull the tranny out of a 944 one day and let me know what ya think ..it doesn't even connect to the motor and you ahve to pull everything from between them to get it out and you have about an inch and a half to work with in either direction, and a damn "torque tube" that's always in your way..NOt to mention EVERYTHING in the driveline is a allen style but it's 12 or 16 point (I forget the count i just know i've got allen/torx style sockets that only work on porsches and other german ish.)

Their wiring is usually gobbled together with all sorts of weird valves for controlling wastegates (944's have external gates from the factory) and more solenoids for boost restriction and burned up brittle wires than you can shake a stick at and if all of it's not routed PERFECTLY something iss going to either burn or rub through and ruin your day. That's why i hate working on the guy's cars who've shosen to keep a factory ECU adn harness.. you look at a connector and it falls apart

But honestly, i do enjoy the porsche work, i just wish i had more DSM work since i own one. I can tell you exactly what to buy to be competitive in a porsche 944, 924, 928, 968, 930 and 911 from years 1970 - 1995'ish, but when you start asking me about mitsu parts, my knowledge of "what's hot and what's not" is about 8-9 years out dated

 

[daren_p]

Glen I too would have to recommend the GT3076 or the FP3052 (if your going the Mitsu mani route), for the goals your after. Yes I may be a little biased since I run the 3052 but personally I think its a great street turbo that can lay down some nice numbers when pushed. If your going the FP route, I'd defently opt for one of their cast race mani's vs your typical Mitsu mani. Spool will vary with mods but expect 20 psi by ~4000 rpms on average & this turbo has layed down over 520 awhp (believe I've seen in the 530-540 range) when pushed. Boost recovery between shifts is basically as quick as my evoIII turbo was (ie basically none). Yes there are larger turbo that will obviously get the job done, but if you want quick spool, great streetability & still meet your power goals, this is the route I'd go (& did )

As for WG placement, the location on the FP houseing is the ideal location as stated above. I have ran as low as 13 psi when I first installed the turbo & it held constantly there till redline. Personally I ran in the 22-24psi range last summer on pump & meth. Once you hit over 20psi, this turbo really startes to wake up, though I was actually really impressed with its pull even at 13psi as I wasn't expecting much.

 

[turboglenn]

Just to clarify i would prefer to keep My T3 manifold since i have it on the car and it's gated already with a tial 38 external gate

 

[daren_p]

Just to clarify i would prefer to keep My T3 manifold since i have it on the car and it's gated already with a tial 38 external gate

Then you would want to go with the standard Garrett GT3076, if thats the turbo route you want to go. It can be had in multiple T3 housings, there's the 4 bolt & 5 bolt T31 style housings. These are the older housing design & of the two, the 4 bolt is supposed to be the better performing/flowing. Now ATP Turbo also makes a custom cast 5 bolt housing if you need to go with a 5 bolt housing (4 bolt vs 5 bolt place the turbo in a slightly different location, with 4 bolt being closer to the block). This housing is supposed to be mirrored internally the same as the proper GT turbine housing, so should flow as well as the normal T31 4 bolt or they claim as well as the proper GT housing. The last version, the "GT" housing is a 4 bolt as well but internally is different then the older style T31 4 bolt & it has a 3" turbine outlet size while the T31 4 bolt is 2.5". The GT housing, while the best choice is a tight squueze in our engine compartments & usually requires cutom parts to make it work.

As a side note the FP30 series housing should net you similar flow as the .63 AR T3 housing.

 

[turboglenn]

well, it looks like i'll go with that on the .63ar and see what happens. I am wating till summer before i dig into anything else on this car i've got ignition troubles now, i've put a trans, cams, clutch arm and ball at seperate time from trans, alcohol system, BSE'd my spare engine that's in the car now, installed my J&S safeguard and every single time it's snowed or dropped into the negative temps, and as of today. I cleaned all my power and ground cables and relocated some grounds to try and fix my ignition problem and what do ya know, it's snowing

 

[gsxtasy]

Whats up man, just to let you know, I have the fp3052(gt3076) so if you want, you can come test it out and see what you think about it, before you jump into anything. Only difference would be the hotside, mine being an FP turbine and if you got one it'd be the t3. So it's just an option if you want to see how it handles, overall we have similar setups, with cams and such so it'd give you a fairly good idea.

-Aaron

 

[turboglenn]

Whats up man, just to let you know, I have the fp3052(gt3076) so if you want, you can come test it out and see what you think about it, before you jump into anything. Only difference would be the hotside, mine being an FP turbine and if you got one it'd be the t3. So it's just an option if you want to see how it handles, overall we have similar setups, with cams and such so it'd give you a fairly good idea.

-Aaron

Hell yea, i'll take you up on that whenever you're free! You can put my TRE through it's paces as well if you'd like (not sure if you've got a built tranny or not) but you could see what you're getting into as well.

Hit me up and let me know when your free, i should be off tomorrow, but i have a Doc's appointment at 3 PM.

 

[gsxtasy]

Yeah, i'll let you know. I'm still getting some stuff situated with it so it may be a week or so before i have it in good running condition again, but if your not in too much of a hurry to pickup a turbo. I'll give you a call or text or PM or somethin.

Hell yea, i'll take you up on that whenever you're free! You can put my TRE through it's paces as well if you'd like (not sure if you've got a built tranny or not) but you could see what you're getting into as well.

Hit me up and let me know when your free, i should be off tomorrow, but i have a Doc's appointment at 3 PM.

 

[turboglenn]

I'm in no hurry at all, just planning ahead!

 

[JusMX141]

I mainly picked it because 57 was my AMA race # when i was in 125B class dirtbike racing years upon years ago

No way! B Riders unite!

So I guess I should be looking for a "141" trim turbo?

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[turboglenn]

No way! B Riders unite!

So I guess I should be looking for a "141" trim turbo?

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

HAHAHHA... that's gonna be one big ass turbo! :

B class forever! Is that a late 80's earlyt 90's RM or is that on of the years yamaha was using yellow before they went white and magenta??

I raced an 88 RM 80 in 80cc B, then when i was 14 i moved to 125 C( had an 89 cr125 and later got a husky woods bike), then in one season i went to 125cc B and got hurt bad trying to clear a double on my woods bike (1992 husqvarna 125), came up short and tried to bail late, caught my leg on the peak of the last double in budds creeks motocross track in 1992 and that was it for me. Not because i got hurt, but i got a license shortly after healing and wanted to ride the ladies instead for a bit I've not raced since, ridden a bunch, but no good ol 2smokers like back in the day

EDIT: what district were you? i forget i think i was 22 when i lived in PA, we were in hatsburough. Then i moved to VA and i think it was 46 or something...hell way too many years and beers ago now

I miss Budds Creek and Unadilla, those were my 2 favorite east coast tracks

 

[turboglenn]

I think i may have an old ass pic of me jumping my 125 husky up a cliff climb over my girlfriends head at the time...let me look.

Holy Chit, i found it, jumping in a t-shirt and jeans and all, this was a cliff climb from a fire road in my back yard practice area. Lookin like a goon .... This was after i was 57, i switched to 77 and stopped racing.

 

[slowgsr]

Why would you think that a turbo would last longer at one boost pressure versus another? A turbo is not fatigued by running at a higher pressure ratio. A turbo is not stressed significantly more with 10 psi more pressure. The RPM of a turbo doesn't change significantly at one pressure ratio versus another.

I believe it does make a difference in the life of a turbo.

 

[gsxtasy]

I think i may have an old ass pic of me jumping my 125 husky up a cliff climb over my girlfriends head at the time...let me look.

Holy Chit, i found it, jumping in a t-shirt and jeans and all, this was a cliff climb from a fire road in my back yard practice area. Lookin like a goon .... This was after i was 57, i switched to 77 and stopped racing.

That picture from 1972?

 

[turboglenn]

That picture from 1972?

early 90's

 

[TurboAnything]

I just found this like a week ago.Honda-Tech.com: Forced Induction: Turbo shootout results: BW S256 vs GT3076R

 

[Calan]

Very interested in this thread as well. I'm making (I think) around 320 at the wheels with my E16g, but it's straining to get there on my setup. I want something for around 420-450whp with good spool and streetability...internal gate... that will bolt up to my Mitsu exhaust mani and hogged-out E3 O2 housing.

I'm already shopping new injectors, probably 850's or 950's. My 650's are about maxed on my 16G

 

[turboglenn]

Keep the good info coming for sure. It looked like the BW turbo in that honda forum didn't do as well as it's Garrett counterpart. Though I'll be looking for a garrett unit with a 5 bolt ford style housing

 

[JusMX141]

what district were you? i forget i think i was 22 when i lived in PA, we were in hatsburough. Then i moved to VA and i think it was 46 or something...hell way too many years and beers ago now

I miss Budds Creek and Unadilla, those were my 2 favorite east coast tracks

I rode my entire career in District 5 (Western PA, Eastern Ohio, Northern WV.) The two photos above were taken at Steel City and Field Of Dreams....the Field Of Dreams pic was in 2001 when I holeshot the State Championship race and ended up 5th out of a full 40 rider gate.

My B class era (1999-2004) allowed me to ride in the same class as Travis Pastrana, Branden Jesseman, and Broc Hepler as amateurs when they were too young to ride expert. I was in B class because I earned every race win possible in C class....they were there because the rules wouldn't allow them to advance. Essentially they were pros at the age of 14 competing in a class that they were guaranteed to win. Just being on the track at the same time as those guys was a dream come true....I'd be in 6th or 8th place out of 30-40 riders, and on lap #4 out of 7 Pastrana and Jesseman would blow past me like I was tied to a fence post. I can't imagine the skill needed to go that fast.

I was never that great of an outdoor rider; I focused more on our District's Arenacross races. They were fun because they took alot of skill to be fast....you couldn't just go out and blast like you do on an outdoor track. The night races also progressed much quicker than the weekend races....no sleeping in the pits and missing your moto!

I began racing MX in District 5 during the 1992 season and rode every year until I broke my ankle in 2004...not that I hadn't broken anything before that (the ankle was officially break #9), but the broken ankle is what ultimately ended my career as a motocross racer. Doctors gave me a 30% chance of ever regaining normal ankle function, and strongly suggested I quit racing because if I were to somehow break the same bone again the ankle will have to be fused.

The whole situation was bad- I was practicing, wearing old boots, and some weird cross-rut situation made me land wth my foot under the bike on a 65' uphill stepup jump. Sadly, I didn't even wreck.....and the stepup was literally the easiest jump on the track (not that I worried much about difficulty.) I ended up shattering my left Talus, which is the second most difficult bone for the human body to heal due to poor clean blood supply and poor circulation to the feet.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

I want to get back in it in the worst way, but I'm too out of shape to ever be competitive. I still have my 2003 RM125 and RM250....I'm considering doing to appropriate motor mods to the 125 to make it 144cc in order to comply with the AMA's newest 2-stroke rules.

 

[turboglenn]

I just want a SuMo now, i can ride and wheely anywhere i want, and hit a jump or trail when i feel like it as well. I could NEVER be competitive in MX again. Too many broken bones, guzzled beers and gobbled cheese burgers since those days ::

 

[drivemusicnow]

I believe it does make a difference in the life of a turbo.

Congratulations?

 

[turboglenn]

Motorcycles, gotta love em!