PTE GT turbos

[RDS]

Rick i would go with his offer, seems good and he is a well established member

 

[RDS]

Originally posted by prostreetdsmx1
hey folks. we are the folks that dynoed the GT3251. So far the customer has been happy with the turbo. The spool is real quick on it. The install is fairly simple as long as you have the right parts.

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notice the power curve, beautiful. Torque was made real hard real fast to. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

now that power alone is nice, however we have a lot of room to play with. That one was on a:
stock 7 bolt
HKS cams 64/72
DSMlink
93 octane
very consevative tuning
no timing adjustment
2 counts of knock
20psi

This one was the GT3251 with the 52trim (51mm/71mm wheel). The pulls were made on a AWD dyno.

we can see this turbo going further and we hope to have the larger GT3255 on the dyno shortly.

We'll keep you updated.

Marti
TSF

What was the crank HP of these runs? I assume this ran a stock intercooler as well? If so thats really good figs for 20psi boost.
I would say that the crank HP must have been close to 360-370hp if a AWD dyno was used!

 

[Ben K]

Originally posted by prostreetdsmx1
The GT wheels are smaller than a conventional stg 3 wheel or t350 wheel however at high boost apps it will flow more air. These GT wheels really like big boost.

and folks please dont get this thread locked this is one of the only resources for info on these turbos and wheels lets not ruin it.

Thanks

Marti

Martin,

How do you know that these wheels will flow more air than a T31 or T350 turbine wheel? What's the exhaust manifold backpressure at say 20psi intake manifold pressure on your GT3251? What's the backpressure at 25 psi? Do you have actual data that can support your claim? or are you just taking someone's word for it.

I am not in this thread to start any kind of vendor war, and I don't see any reason this thread should be locked. I am very curious to know if these GT turbine wheels really flow more air than T31 and T350 wheels. Martin, you seem to have sold a lot of these and you seem to know the most about them, so that's why I am asking you.

I know what backpressure these run in the large Garrett turbine housings, just want to know how well they work in PTE's.

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

Ben,
to be honest i am really not positive on those numbers however i will find out the answer. As far as the Gt wheels, its been in my experince with the GT35 we installed on our MR2, the GT2832 we installed on our 240. With all of these projects we saw huge huge differneces in high boost usage. at 17psi these turbos were ok but at 26+ this things were f*$%in monsterous! the original turbos were t3/t4's with Stage 3 wheels. the stage 5 was on the MR2 and we liked the GT alot more so that is just personal experience.

and i really appreciatte your input in all this Ben.

Martin

 

[redrkt]

While i wouldn't say the gt3255 is the equivalent of the FP3052, there is a good possibility it may have the same compressor wheel. However it lacks ballbearing, the custom fp turbine housing, anti surge cover, and uses the larger gt32 turbine wheel instead of the gt30.

Perhaps you could talk to Ben K or kevin atAGP Turbo about it, they are very knowledgeable and can set you up with exactly what you want. Also i believe Martin(prostreetdsmx1) has said that PTE can make you almost any combo you want if your willing to pay the $$, maybe you could ask him about it.

Heres the turbine efficiency map for the gt32:

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You can see how the changes in a/r effect it's efficiency. The pte is a .63 a/r, or could be a .48, and using the graph you can get an idea of how the smaller a/r will reduce it's efficiency.

Also, regarding the rated hp figures from PTE, in my opinion they are misleading. The gt3251 is rated for 420hp (in Garrett's housings)from Garrett in their catalog on an engine ranging from 2.0l to 2.7l. PTE's 520hp rating kinda seems misleading along with the fact it is in a smaller a/r turbine housing. PTE also rates the 50 trim for only 450hp, and it has been proven to make more than that. I'm not sure what system they use to rate their turbo's hp.

I still can't get a straight answer from PTE as to what compressor wheels are available in their gt32e and gt35e. Martin has told me one thing, and they tell me another(not trying to discredit martin at all, i'm just telling my experience with PTE). From what i have been told from PTE so far is that the gt32e & gt35e both use the smaller 52 trim 51mm/71mm compressor wheel only. After i was told this, i furthur questioned PTE about the 55mm/76mm being available because some vendors said it was available, and the reponse i got was "Like I said, I have no information. That's my story and I'm stickin' to
it." WTF is that supposed to mean?

If the other wheel is a secret, then why don't they just say so, rather than saying it's not available. It doesn't make sense being they list both wheels (the 71mm and 76mm) for both the gt32 and gt35 on their own website. I don't understand how PTE can have this much confusion regarding their own products they sell and their availability, and i've never gotten this hard a time from any other vendor about what wheels are in their turbo's.

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

ok i did speak to rod about this at PTE. I mentioned the e-mails that were exchanged. my advice would be to speak to Jim or Joe. Jim makes em, Joe is my rep there.
The 55 wheel is one that they put in the turbo themselves. it is available. as far as the GT35, they dont recommend the 55 wheel in the GT35.

Martin

 

[Z1500]

Originally posted by prostreetdsmx1
i primarily order .63 however when i order a .48 i will take some pics, bust her open and do some measuring.
Martin

Martin,
How soon might we see this? Can't wait to get to some truth in all this.

Kevin

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by redrkt
I don't understand how PTE can have this much confusion regarding their own products they sell and their availability, and i've never gotten this hard a time from any other vendor about what wheels are in their turbo's.

Its because they honestly don’t know. These guys are REALLY clueless. They end up getting most of their “tech” from knowledgeable DSM vendors. The “Gt35” is a Gt40 comrpessor even though they swore they never sold a Sc61 with a gt40 compressor in it

All these guys are is a turbo wholesaler. They know NOTHING about DSMs and they cant help you pick the right turbo for your car unless it’s a GN or a turbo ford.

PS quite biting my cool name style

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by prostreetdsmx1
to be honest i am really not positive on those numbers however i will find out the answer.

Martin if you are waiting for PTE to give you the tech you will be waiting for a long time. You will find that PTE like to use their own naming convention and the names dont have any bassis in the real world.

Kevin: Anxiously awaiting news on the GT turbine wheels? Lol stop playing with people.

 

[DSM90AWD]

Originally posted by redrkt
From what i have been told from PTE so far is that the gt32e & gt35e both use the smaller 52 trim 51mm/71mm compressor wheel only. After i was told this, i furthur questioned PTE about the 55mm/76mm being available because some vendors said it was available, and the reponse i got was "Like I said, I have no information. That's my story and I'm stickin' to
it." WTF is that supposed to mean?

If the other wheel is a secret, then why don't they just say so, rather than saying it's not available. It doesn't make sense being they list both wheels (the 71mm and 76mm) for both the gt32 and gt35 on their own website. I don't understand how PTE can have this much confusion regarding their own products they sell and their availability, and i've never gotten this hard a time from any other vendor about what wheels are in their turbo's.

My hypothesis (unproven) is that this combination is what Buschur is now marketing as their BR475. The BR500 is known to be the 50-trim PTE (the smallest SCM turbo they make).. making 500WHP on BRs Dyno @29psi with the "Orange" car.

Now the BR475 comes out.. Bushur has done the R&D (prol his "secret combo").. so PTE is now pushing the GT-32 line.. and being sketchy on the details.. hmmm

Has my 10years analyst experience finally led me astray

 

[redrkt]

Originally posted by rdrkt
Its because they honestly don’t know. These guys are REALLY clueless. They end up getting most of their “tech” from knowledgeable DSM vendors. The “Gt35” is a Gt40 comrpessor even though they swore they never sold a Sc61 with a gt40 compressor in it

All these guys are is a turbo wholesaler. They know NOTHING about DSMs and they cant help you pick the right turbo for your car unless it’s a GN or a turbo ford.

PS quite biting my cool name style

Sorry, i didn't mean to bite your name intentionally, but i do admit i think it's pretty cool as well.

I'm beginning to get the same impression about them being clueless after trying to talk to them. It also seems rather disturbing. For example the gt35 is available from Garrett in the GT catalog as a chra with the larger 52 trim 55mm/76mm compressor wheel(Part #731428-1), but Jim told me it's not available at PTE. So PTE rates their gt35 with the smaller 51mm/71mm compressor wheel(~42lbs/min) for 660hp? That really doesn't add up. I don't understand why they wouldn't want to pair the larger turbine wheel with the larger compressor wheel.

However the gt32 is only available as a chra with the smaller 52 trim 51mm/71mm compressor wheel(gt3251) from Garrett in the GT catalog, but PTE "custom makes" it with the larger 76mm compressor wheel for the gt3255. If they are just a wholesaler, would they have the capability to be custom making turbo's, or would they get them custom made from Garrett?

DSM90AWD, your hypothesis seems to make sense about the BR475. I'm also curious about the BR675, any ideas?

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

but PTE "custom makes" it with the larger 76mm compressor wheel for the gt3255.

red im glad that finally got cleared up for you. i have been sayin that to you for weeks now, but i know its hard when you have two parties saying two different things.

Martin

 

[ShapeGSX]

Screw all of this and just get an Evo III 16G. 44.1lbs/min at 25 to 26psi.

 

[RACER-X]

after reading all this mess and getting a headach from all the confusing, i'm with shapegsx and the 16g.

 

[Tevenor]

Originally posted by ShapeGSX
Screw all of this and just get an Evo III 16G. 44.1lbs/min at 25 to 26psi.

Now now. Let's keep this on topic, ya damn post whore.

 

[ShapeGSX]

Originally posted by Tevenor
Now now. Let's keep this on topic, ya damn post whore.

Post whore, my ass! 142 posts. Now, if I had 2245 posts, that would make me a post whore.

Well, let's put it this way, after seeing a compressor map for the GT3251, I sure wouldn't get that turbo over an Evo 16G. Consider I was at a pressure ratio of 2.7, and 44.1lb/min. I was off the edge of this map:

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Actually, I suppose I was probably off the Evo III 16G map, too. And really, there is no "off the map" just, "not as efficient," I suppose.

 

[DSM90AWD]

Originally posted by ShapeGSX
Well, let's put it this way, after seeing a compressor map for the GT3251, I sure wouldn't get that turbo over an Evo 16G. Consider I was at a pressure ratio of 2.7, and 44.1lb/min.
Actually, I suppose I was probably off the Evo III 16G map, too. And really, there is no "off the map" just, "not as efficient," I suppose.

Can't find an EVOIII 16G map but here's a Big16G from Taboo:

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I'm curious with all this talk of measured airflow from the DSM-Link.. just how accurate are they

 

[ShapeGSX]

I'm certain that they are not 100% accurate. But they have to be close, or else the fuel that the ECU gives the engine wouldn't be close.

 

[Tevenor]

Basing your entire decision on which turbo to buy on a compressor map that has been floating around the internet is like buying a hooker because of the quality of her lipstick.

 

[ShapeGSX]

Good point, but that is what this entire thread is about!

You gotta just bolt the sucker on and drive it.

 

[DSM90AWD]

Originally posted by Tevenor
Basing your entire decision on which turbo to buy on a compressor map that has been floating around the internet is like buying a hooker because of the quality of her lipstick.

Maps have their uses to get you in the ballpark size-wise... but I agree.. other factors have to be considered s/a gas type, RPM, intercooler efficiency vs airflow ..etc. Pretty graphs do not a fast car make

I'd go "all in" to say that at 25-26psi the GT-32 would blow the EVOIII away in both airflow and efficiency. We'll just have to wait for Martin to turn up the wick.

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

I'd go "all in" to say that at 25-26psi the GT-32 would blow the EVOIII away in both airflow and efficiency. We'll just have to wait for Martin to turn up the wick.

and then god said "ask and you shall receive. We are slowly turning up the boost on this bad boy, being that this is the customers only car we have to be careful but in the next few weeks here we will be ono the dyno again. If i end up keeping my GST ill be putting a few of these on for testing. but if i pick up the GSX in the next week or two as planned we will do the same there.

The EVO III (in my own opinion) is a bad ass turbo, however at high boost applications the GT 3251 or even the SCM50 would out flow it.

Martin

 

[redrkt]

red im glad that finally got cleared up for you. i have been sayin that to you for weeks now, but i know its hard when you have two parties saying two different things.

Thanks alot for your help martin. Jim @ PTE just got back with me and cleared up all of my questions i had as well. He confirmed that they do custom build and balance all their chras and turbo's in house, except for the ball bearing chra's and turbo's, which they get directly from Garrett. He also told me that he was mistaken about the gt35e only being available with the 51mm/71mm compressor wheel, and that it is available with the 55mm/76mm compressor wheel as well. I apoligize for incinuating that the gt3255 wasn't available, however if PTE would have had their facts straight to begin with i would've never been lead to believe it wasn't available.

The EVO III (in my own opinion) is a bad ass turbo, however at high boost applications the GT 3251 or even the SCM50 would out flow it.

No doubt the scm50 can outflow the evoIII 16g, but the gt3251 may have it's work cut out for it. From what i have seen so far out of the gt3251 at 20 psi on pump, it doesn't seem to do much better than a small 16g.

The real agenda seems to be that the gt3251 is supposed to be comparable to if not better than a 50trim, which is what alot of people have been told about the gt3251 from turbo vendors and PTE, and is the reason they bought it or are interested in it. I think alot of those people are going to be disappointed, if they aren't already.

 

[DSM90AWD]

Originally posted by redrkt
The real agenda seems to be that the gt3251 is supposed to be comparable to if not better than a 50trim, which is what alot of people have been told about the gt3251 from turbo vendors and PTE, and is the reason they bought it or are interested in it. I think alot of those people are going to be disappointed, if they aren't already.

It may at some silly high PSI.. as aren't the GTs specifically designed for high boost/wheel speed applications? Has anyone asked PTE what boost levels the GTs are rated?

I read (FP?) that at 20psi the difference in med-sized turbo's performance is slight.. but as the PSI/RPMs increase the differences become obvious with the larger / more efficient wheels.

So if you plan to run 20psi.. your turbo options are many. For 24psi.. 16G + a freightliner FMIC

 

[redrkt]

Originally posted by DSM90AWD
I read (FP?) that at 20psi the difference in med-sized turbo's performance is slight.. but as the PSI/RPMs increase the differences become obvious with the larger / more efficient wheels.

This why i think the gt3251 doesn't do as well as the 50 trim overall. The compressor wheel in the gt3251 is 5mm smaller than the 50 trim at the exducer and 3mm smaller at the inducer. At any given boost level the 50 trim will be spinning slower than the gt3251 to make the same boost. This is also why i think the 50 trim will do much better than the gt3251 at higher boost(25-30psi).The 50 trim has been proven to make ~380whp-420whp @ 20-23 psi, and up to ~480-500whp at 28-30psi.