Oil cooler used to lower water temps.

[miliman13]

So, at first i though wouldn't it be nice to have a second small radiator, perhaps side mounted to help with temps, i live in FL and the heat is killer. But then i though i would start my experiment on a smaller scale and use that info to determine weather a second rad is necessary or if a oil cooler will do.

So, i just used some cheapy aluminum oil cooler and so far on a small test, it has proven a success.
I have lowered around 10-15 degrees. so sitting at 195-200 compared to 205-215; A/C OFF.

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this crude animation depicts how i imagine this would work, i think the results were what i was expecting.

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Its ugly, but this is just for testing.

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See the whole reason for this idea, is due to my ice cold A/C causing my temps to rise, as i only have one puller, and can only fit that one.

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I have two cheap auto-zone pushers, and they aren't able to handle the task of acting like A/C fans; Thus my random pondering. I already had the cooler laying around and said "what the hell".


I search and as far as i know, this is the 1st "documented" use of an oil cooler in this manner.

When the time come i will use a strong pusher, and i will "duct" some air into the rad!


the following are some crazy ideas to execute, my next theory.

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I plan on making two separate ducts to force air into the air deprived areas. These are the ideas.

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Any who, i hope this bit of info will help to serve the community, and since theses puppies like to run hot, this is an unorthodox choice in lowering those temps. ( Comments ) ?

 

[Sp1kE]

I was thinking the same thing, I don't have room for a full rad anymore and my half rad seems to keep up under normal driving, but when I do a wot pulls at the track my temps spike pretty high. Theres no way I could do a road course with how I am setup.

Where did you T in the lines? heater hoses?

 

[Nekid]

Nicely done, quite a drop in temperature from that small of a radiator.

I had a similar predicament - I lost my AC fan with the new manifold and was not willing to give up my AC. With just the OEM puller on OEM radiator, the car would overheat when stopped with AC on and +100* ambient temps. I had success with a 10" FAL mounted to the AC condenser.

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For wiring, since I rewired the hood fusebox, is I made a 'Y' plug to go from the stock wiring for the OEM puller to the puller and pusher. The OEM puller has both the 'high' and 'low' lines running to it while the FAL pusher has just the 'high' line going to it. The thought begin the OEM puller should be able to do most of the work, but when it needs to really cool down - when the ECU switches to high, both fans will be going full tilt. In wiring it this way, I lost the 'one fan on always while the AC is on' function but have not suffered any ill effects - temps are rock solid steady.

 

[miliman13]

I was thinking the same thing, I don't have room for a full rad anymore and my half rad seems to keep up under normal driving, but when I do a wot pulls at the track my temps spike pretty high. Theres no way I could do a road course with how I am setup.

Where did you T in the lines? heater hoses?

I tapped into the 3/8 threads on top (water neck)and used a fitting to connect to a 3/8 fuel line, then the return line entered on that nipple you see capped off. ( i don't run heater lines/ eliminated.)

"the pic with all the arrows shows how i went about it, ill post up additional pics later.

Nicely done, quite a drop in temperature from that small of a radiator.

I had a similar predicament - I lost my AC fan with the new manifold and was not willing to give up my AC. With just the OEM puller on OEM radiator, the car would overheat when stopped with AC on and +100* ambient temps. I had success with a 10" FAL mounted to the AC condenser.

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For wiring, since I rewired the hood fusebox, is I made a 'Y' plug to go from the stock wiring for the OEM puller to the puller and pusher. The OEM puller has both the 'high' and 'low' lines running to it while the FAL pusher has just the 'high' line going to it. The thought begin the OEM puller should be able to do most of the work, but when it needs to really cool down - when the ECU switches to high, both fans will be going full tilt. In wiring it this way, I lost the 'one fan on always while the AC is on' function but have not suffered any ill effects - temps are rock solid steady.

Thanks man, im happy i was able to add to the team. Like i said before im sure many have done this before but i never found any info on Google documenting it. So im gonna have a cookie.

 

[miliman13]

This is how i have things set up

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in this open area is were the oem inter-cooler used to be, its were i plan to relocate this oil cooler/2nd rad.

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[miliman13]

UPDATE: So it turns out i had the polarity wrong on my 2X pushers, silly me. So i installed 2 new pushers with the blades turned around (pushes hard), and i found my old Mishimoto fan motor and swapped it out with one the no-name fans, (pushes even harder!)

Well, i can run my A/C on for a little longer, but STILL im overheating with A/C on (230F).
Now i did some reading, and im sure its just my front mount as i had the A/C vacuumed and filled withing the last few weeks.

So this experiment wont work with A/C on

So i bought some aluminum sheets, and will be making the 2X ducts i mentioned.
i will update further when the time comes. any extra ideas though?


the website is not allowing me to upload any pics at the current time!!

 

[Pipnorcali]

You could try these lil ducts I made from some scrap..230 is way too hot..does it not overheat with the ac off or just when its on?

on the side of the fmic in front of the horn I run around 198-202 but I dont have ac

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[miliman13]

Nah issue while driving, only heats up when I turn on the A/C. Once I see it got to 230f I turn off the air and the temps instantly being to drop. Hmmmm what is the recommended type of refrigerant for these cars 134a right? I ask because I had my air charged with the same stuff we charge ice boxes/merchandisers, at work I learned temp is caused by pressure and some types of refrigerants create different pressures.

 

[RedGST98]

I havr the same issue... have you thought of reflective wrap arounf the water line that feeds the water pump? I just ordered some gold reflective myself to see if it helps... also maybe a turbo blanket might help as well. ...

 

[warren]

So If I read this I right you guys are using oil cooler has little radiator

 

[miliman13]

So If I read this I right you guys are using oil cooler has little radiator

Yes

I havr the same issue... have you thought of reflective wrap arounf the water line that feeds the water pump? I just ordered some gold reflective myself to see if it helps... also maybe a turbo blanket might help as well. ...

My headers have wrap and my turbo has a blanket.

 

[miliman13]

To use the process of elimination, I took my bumper cover off today and went for a ride. My temps were pretty low around 203-215 with driving at only around 40mph and even when sitting at a red light. It did go as high as 220 but when it did, it very quickly dropped down. The stock temp gauge stayed in the center during this experiment.

This was A/c on . reading with AEM gauge. Yet to compare this with dsmlink.

So no choice but to duct!!!!!

 

[MIdsm]

My understanding is that the OP is just bypassing the thermostat thus pushing a bit more water through the stock radiator. The problem as I see it is that although the water runs cooler the water pressure inside the engine has been lowered possibly leading to localized boiling of coolant inside the head. Reversed fans were also an issue. Another, in my opinion big, issue is that the stock radiator ducting has been removed due to FMIC install. The air that enters through the radiator opening in the bumper can just bypass the radiator and the intercooler and leave under the car. Since the air doesn't pass through the radiator the engine gets warm. Simple. The solution is also simple - make sure that all of the air that enters the bumper goes through the coolers and that it has easy time leaving the coolers as well. Good luck.

 

[miliman13]

The problem as I see it is that although the water runs cooler the water pressure inside the engine has been lowered possibly leading to localized boiling of coolant inside the head. Good luck.

thanks man, very nice analysis.
Yeah I have to seal this, got the car this way years ago with the fmic. But higher pressure equals higher temps. Thus lower pressure=lower temps. I work in an ice factory; this is were I learned this. Perhaps you could elaborate I might be wrong.

 

[EGLTAWLN]

.
your pictures show your supply and return lines BOTH on the pre radiator pipe. as soon as your mini rad coolant return gets back to the thermostat it mixes with the already HOT coolant.
im not sure your setup would allow cool coolant return back to the thermostat since both lines should be seeing hot pressurized coolant at that point.
it's like you are trying to cool down the coolant with the little rad before it goes to the big rad, instead of both rads working together.
if your return piping connected back to the lower rad hose where the coolant has been cooled, i think it might work better.
but that's just my construction worker mind thinking.....

 

[miliman13]

yea, i though idk, some how this way it would be fine, i could have used the water pipe and connected to that also, but i didn't want to risk having rubber line so close to the exhaust manifold and turbo.

So to day i took a passenger with me and she was monitoring the ECU water temps with ECMlink.
We drove around 40-50 up and down this road with roundabouts so we could keep going back and forth with out going to far. We drove around 35 mins total. ECMlink showed a higher temp of 3-7 degrees higher than the AEM gauge, but it seemed more accurate, and bounced a lot between 206-210. We maintained a median of 216.5 with A/c on.

I have a theory...... Since my car only has a cruise tune to around 3000Rpms and after that it leans out hard, that lean may be helping increase temps. (i shift at 3000rpms)

But i have noticed my Temp fan wont kick on until 200-206F and im thinking this is the "HIGH" setting, since the aftermarket fans only have 2Xwires, so should my fans kick on at lower temps also on "LOW" setting ?

 

[miliman13]

But i have noticed my Temp fan wont kick on until 200-206F and im thinking this is the "HIGH" setting, since the aftermarket fans only have 2Xwires, so should my fans kick on at lower temps also on "LOW" setting ?

So yeah i only have my temp fan wired to high and my a/c fan wired to med.
So that explains why i do not hear a fan go off until 206-210.

found this
http://www.ca.dsm.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=329503

 

[miliman13]

D.I.Y DSM DUCT !!

Better than starting a new thread!

This is what i have so far, still not complete figured i would share with you guys and gals.



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[miliman13]

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This is a test upload. From phone.

 

[miliman13]

D.I.Y DSM DUCT !!

Better than starting a new thread!

This is what i have so far, still not complete figured i would share with you guys and gals.



NOTICE: CANT UPLOAD ANY IMAGES AGAIN!!!!!!

.
Note these pics are cropped to allow upload from phone.

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I completed the top, but just started on the bottom.

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[miliman13]

And I sealed of the radiator to condensor.

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[motomattx]

A couple of things here that should lower your coolant temperatures, you might have done some of these already: replace your radiator cap with a new one, make sure that you are using a 50/50 mix of GREEN coolant and DISTLLED water, remove your thermostat, add water wetter. Yes, I am waiting for the naysayers to whine in about removing your thermostat, however you are down where you dont really have cold weather, and up north here I havent had a thermostat in years and years and I get right up to full operating temperatures just fine just as quickly as I do with a thermostat, however I do not use the car in the winter or fall, only summer 70* and above. The added flow will do you good with your temps.

 

[talontd92tsi]

What temperature thermostat are you running? Stock is 195* I believe. I always a 180* thermostat when using a Front mount. Max temps are like 206* via link, of course, I don't have AC either, but it might help.

 

[athlete3344]

.
your pictures show your supply and return lines BOTH on the pre radiator pipe. as soon as your mini rad coolant return gets back to the thermostat it mixes with the already HOT coolant.
im not sure your setup would allow cool coolant return back to the thermostat since both lines should be seeing hot pressurized coolant at that point.
it's like you are trying to cool down the coolant with the little rad before it goes to the big rad, instead of both rads working together.
if your return piping connected back to the lower rad hose where the coolant has been cooled, i think it might work better.

The small radiator is just acting as a "pre-cooler", and will just reduce the heat duty of the main radiator.

The only way to increase the duty of a heat exchanger is either by increasing the surface area, or by decreasing the temperature of the cooling medium.

Edit, or by increasing the flow rate of the cooling medium/decreasing the flow rate of the hot medium. The ducting should be beneficial.

 

[99redgst]

A couple of things here that should lower your coolant temperatures, you might have done some of these already: replace your radiator cap with a new one, make sure that you are using a 50/50 mix of GREEN coolant and DISTLLED water, remove your thermostat, add water wetter. Yes, I am waiting for the naysayers to whine in about removing your thermostat, however you are down where you dont really have cold weather, and up north here I havent had a thermostat in years and years and I get right up to full operating temperatures just fine just as quickly as I do with a thermostat, however I do not use the car in the winter or fall, only summer 70* and above. The added flow will do you good with your temps.

Here comes the naysayer. Removing the thermostat removes a restriction from the cooling system, which means coolant will flow through the head so fast it can not absorb heat as it should. It can also cause air pockets and hot spots to form. If you really must you can modify the thermostat so it is always open. This will allow coolant to flow at the optimal speed and be more efficient.