New Times on the 14B

[SBstar]

That's how I see it, too.
I know I don't need 3" IC pipes with a 14b. I ordered the fmic kit with 3" pipes because I was originally using it with a GT35. I also know the 3" pipes don't hurt at this power level either. The big fmic core definately helps make power since the turbo is pushing out some very hot air.

I think a 2G manifold will make little difference. I measured the runners and the diameter is within 1/2 mm of a 2G manifold. I'd like to try the FP Race mani with an EVO3 O2 housing, and maybe a 7cm housing.

I understand what you're saying, and I don't disagree the FMIC is definately what I think of as the largest improvement you've made. You need to find a way to dissapate the heat created by running the 14b at it's limits. But with the SMIM, larger cams, larger piping, etc. I would assume you're seeing boost fall off more severely then it was before adding those mods. So the question is, where is the happy medium between pushing a few more psi, or raising the VE.

 

[pneumo]

I would assume you're seeing boost fall off more severely then it was before adding those mods. So the question is, where is the happy medium between pushing a few more psi, or raising the VE.

Good question. That's why I logged a full pull to see what airflow was doing. Since airflow Hz didn't change as rpm went up it could only mean that boost was going down with rpm almost linearly. That's why I tried some fairly aggressive timing. The engine behaves like a turbo car at lower rpm and becomes more like a NA engine as rpm goes up, even though it was still pushing around 15psi at 7k rpm. At that point I wasn't just chasing more power, I wanted the ability to rev the engine higher to make it worthwhile to stay in a lower gear a little longer. This was one of the problems I enjoyed the most!

 

[T9S1i]

There you go again Dave, thinking things through way past any level i ever have with these cars! Way to go! haha, thats why you are a lot faster than most everyone else.

I have an Evo 3 O2 housing in my garage if you want it. Just let me know. Its just taking up space on my shelf, I was saving it just in case i needed it to pass smog or something, but i took care of my smog last week so i dont need it anymore.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Yes the turbo will only flow whatever the compressor can squeeze in.
With your new upgrades, what it appears you have effectively done is make it reach its peak air flow yet at a lower boost. This is a good thing to make more airflow at less boost and increasing VE, because as you know, more pressure generally adds more heat, your making the turbo max out on airflow with less EFFORT ( Less boost.) Therefore cooler intake charge into the engine thus also giving you the leeway for more timing. Im not sure the exact science behind it all, but Id like to learn it myself.

I am on a similar path as you, but except pushing a 14b to its outer limits I am experimenting with my Evo316g. One of my soon future mods will be a JMF "street" SMIM.
Which version do you have? Also Id like to know your compression ratio.
At the point your at, since you cant get anymore airflow out of your setup, then the next step would be better use of your current air flow. Probably not worth the hassel for where your at now, but Id say if you installed some significantly higher compression pistons you will get some nice gains.
There is a lot of great reasons to run really high compression, especially on these small turbos.
I am shooting for 10:1 myself.

I have a Evo3 o2 housing for sale also, If you dont pick up one from the guy above me for whatever reason lmk.
And I think the FP mani will give you good gains one way or another. It did on my car, and the other dsms I have heard of running them!

Isnt it good to know you still have a lot of room for improvement!

 

[pneumo]

I thougt about switching to alcohol a few months ago, but decided against it since I didn't have time to learn how to tune for a new fuel. Now that I've seen the thread LucasEnglish is talking about, I'm interested. I did a quick google search for 'nitro-methane' and became giddy with the possibilities! Of course it's out of my league, but just imagine the power! That's the stuff that fuels my dreams.

My JMfab smim is the original version.

I'm using Wiseco 9.0 pistons with a 1.6 head, so overall compression is around 9.2:1 Now that I've seen the results of this project I could have made more power with flat top pistons. 30* of timing at 7k rpm is a lot of timing- there's room to bump up the compression. I wonder if the compression ratio could be increased even higher with alcohol? Does anyone make domed pistons for DSM's?

 

[SBstar]

With alcohol the compression ratio could definately be raised higher!

 

[Black_Bullet]

I thougt about switching to alcohol a few months ago, but decided against it since I didn't have time to learn how to tune for a new fuel. Now that I've seen the thread LucasEnglish is talking about, I'm interested. I did a quick google search for 'nitro-methane' and became giddy with the possibilities! Of course it's out of my league, but just imagine the power! That's the stuff that fuels my dreams.

My JMfab smim is the original version.

I'm using Wiseco 9.0 pistons with a 1.6 head, so overall compression is around 9.2:1 Now that I've seen the results of this project I could have made more power with flat top pistons. 30* of timing at 7k rpm is a lot of timing- there's room to bump up the compression. I wonder if the compression ratio could be increased even higher with alcohol? Does anyone make domed pistons for DSM's?

Regardless of knock, that 30degs of timing your running sounds way too aggressive especially on 9.2:1 CR. I mean Im not trying to tell you how to tune, but more timing would be a bad thing, you've probably already found or passed MBT, and going further than MBT you will be actually loosing power while putting more stress on the motor due to horrific cylinder pressures.

I think with a lot less timing, but a lot higher compression you would see some excellent results. Like I said Im thinking 10:1 for my own build. I have a compression thread in the Cylinder short block section that has some good info in there. Should check it out!

 

[99gst_racer]

Wow, I don't know how I didn't see this thread sooner...

Great time, Dave.

This gives me fuel to get working on my 14b car again. Hopefully I'll be some competition for you - I'm shooting for 120+ traps and I'm hoping to be a couple hundred pounds lighter than you. Only time will tell if I can pull it off though.

But, again, congrats on the 11.51.


PS - Update your gallery! I want to see some pictures of this beast (and not just the engine bay)!

 

[Phil1320]

Dave--

Strong end to the season though, consistent 11.50's is awesome.

And now you have a goal that is well within reach for next year, 11.44.

Congrats!

Hope to join you in the top ranks next year.

Phil Beers

 

[pneumo]

I went to the dyno last week to see how much power the car was putting down. Here's the results. 324AWHP/ 306tq on a Mustang dyno.

<a href="http://s442.photobucket.com/albums/qq145/DRW-4G63/?action=view&current=324hp-hires.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq145/DRW-4G63/324hp-hires.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

This dyno chart was done using the same mods, same gas, and same tune that I used at the track, except for adding 2% more fuel above 7500rpm for safety. It suprised me, I didn't think the car was making that much power, and I didn't think the power would drop off so much at high rpm. Oh well, whatever works!

Here's a couple more pics from a previous thread. My car has street tires/wheels here. www.dsmtuners.com/forums/151209644-post24.html

Regardless of knock, that 30degs of timing your running sounds way too aggressive especially on 9.2:1 CR. I mean Im not trying to tell you how to tune, but more timing would be a bad thing, you've probably already found or passed MBT, and going further than MBT you will be actually loosing power while putting more stress on the motor due to horrific cylinder pressures.

I think 30* of timing works nicely since I gained 4mph when I bumped up the timing. It might be beyond mbt at some rpms, but it's still a nice gain. Besides, with just 324AWHP on a fully built motor, cylinder pressure isn't so bad yet. That's the nice thing about this whole project- I don't have to worry so much about breaking parts, drivetrain, tranny, etc. since it's not making that much power. I can just flog the car and enjoy it!

 

[T9S1i]

Thats a nice amount of power for Seans low reading dyno!

Good job Dave! That hp does fall off like a mofo though haha!


So, whats next for the off season?

 

[pneumo]

Thats a nice amount of power for Seans low reading dyno!

Good job Dave! That hp does fall off like a mofo though haha!

Sure does! I took a vid of the boost gage and tach while on the dyno, and it showed boost peaking at 23psi at 5200rpm, then it fell from there. At 7krpm it's down to 15psi, at 8krpm it's down to 12psi. There's not much to work with.

So, whats next for the off season?

I took off the shorty exhaust and reinstalled the quiet 3" muffler so I can drive around and enjoy the car. For now I'm just going to enjoy having a fast, well tuned car. We'll see how long that lasts!

 

[T9S1i]

haha! next week you'll have the gt35 on there

 

[slidesquad]

you ever think about re machining the inlet housing with a low pressure port? you should be able to pick up over 60 cfm up top with that.. maybe hold 16psi? its kinds how a high pressure air hose works..

 

[Mr Peepers]

Is this all done on the 6cm^2 turbine housing?

 

[pneumo]

you ever think about re machining the inlet housing with a low pressure port? you should be able to pick up over 60 cfm up top with that.. maybe hold 16psi? its kinds how a high pressure air hose works..

What's a low pressure port? What does it look like?
I already have a velocity stack/bell port on the compressor inlet. Here's a pic I uploaded in another thread. www.dsmtuners.com/forums/50400274-post7.html

I'm still using the stock 6cm turbine housing, mildly ported.

I had a thought the other day. What if I use a 100 shot of nitrous and go for the 14b nitrous record? Maybe a 150 shot? Why not? I already have a built motor, built trans, plenty of fuel, total control of the ecu to manage the nitrous. I just don't have nitrous.
I also don't have a clue how to use nitrous!

 

[pneumo]

Here's a few more pics of me and my car at the track plus a list of the main mods.
Hello!
Full Function: Customer Cars

 

[1qkfwd]

Hey I know you. I met you last year at one of the sac races. Congrats on your 14B times. Dont add NOS see how much further you can get with that 14B.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Here's a few more pics of me and my car at the track plus a list of the main mods.
Hello!
Full Function: Customer Cars

That full function leak proof TB sounds appealing...

 

[pneumo]

Hey I know you. I met you last year at one of the sac races. Congrats on your 14B times. Don't add NOS, see how much further you can get with that 14B.

Yeah, I took second place at CMI in Sacramento last year. That was a lot of fun!

That full function leak proof TB sounds appealing...

Yes I like it so much more than all the other TB's I tried. I had a Q45 TB before and it had problems with a sticking shaft when pushing high boost. It also developed boost leaks after 6 months of use, and it never idled right since it doesn't have an ISC. I'm so happy with Full Function's TB, it's better in every way! Check this out> Full Function Technology :: DSM :: Intercoolers & Intakes :: Throttle Bodies :: FFTec Racing :: FFTec v3 DSM 75mm Throttle Body
You'll see, when you're ready to upgrade the TB it's so much easier than trying to adapt other TB's to work with our cars. I wish I had gone this route from the start.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Damn thats nice, if only money wasnt a problem, if I ever did upgrade TBs Id get that!

 

[GRNDSM]

Contrats Dave! Sorry, I am late to the party, I just noticed your new time, since they just updated the DSM Times page. Very good job!

And, I can't say I'm not happy to see Leon's number finally fall. I wanted to be the one to do it, but my life over the past years has not enabled me to get to the track.

So, Phil, living vicariously through other people?

I just might have to give this old record another shot in the spring...

 

[Phil1320]

Contrats Dave! Sorry, I am late to the party, I just noticed your new time, since they just updated the DSM Times page. Very good job!



So, Phil, living vicariously through other people?

I just might have to give this old record another shot in the spring...

What's up Leon! You might say that!

Hitting the strip 2 times(same weekend last October) in four years isn't gonna get the job done.

If you decide to go for it next year, there will be at least 3 of us, I've made it a priority
to make it happen next year, partially fueled by Dave's bad ass runs, and obviously it has peaked your interest as well. Good luck!

Phil

 

[pneumo]

Oh crap I have competition
Uh, I mean, Hi Leon! What's up? Thanks for joining in on all the fun.

Now that you guys are going for it, I think I shouldn't have given away so much info in my threads!

Good luck anyway, it isn't easy!

 

[Phil1320]

Dave--

Not that your info isn't interesting, because it is, but unfortunately it will not be of much use for me for a few reasons. My power band is entirely different than yours. Your shift points are way higher than mine due to the type of modification you have done. Another reason is that I just have an AFC for tuning, lame by todays standards, but, I'm not up on how to do what you and Leon have done in that respect. Which means I have no way to fine tune and make adjustments at the track. Once I'm there, it's driving and that's it. I've even not capitalized on offers to use a DSMlink. It's because I know there's more driving left in the car. I don't need any more power at this point. I had enough power to run 11's back in '01 but it just never went down like that. My first 12.0 pass was in '00-'01. Before I ran last year I made some major suspension changes to the car to prepare for some road racing and they definitely hurt me last October when I hit the strip. I have zero traction through first and second gear, no matter if I launch under 4,000 rpm. Hell, I went 1.90 60' to 12.0. Point is, car has power, and power to weight, I just have to learn to drive it again with the new set-up. The car makes almost 340 lb.-ft. at the ground, I just need a bit more grip.

Oh, and I believe you on how hard it is to do what you're doing, I don't think anyone has been on the 12.0 marker as long as me without dipping into the 11's. So, you're definitely safe for a while! I held the record for about 8 months until Leon came back and stole it! Let's see how long you can hold it!

Phil