New clutch engagement issue.

[gusu]

I have been having a problem with clutch engagement lately. I have started two threads already on different issues (they were resolved) already.

So here is my issue.

I had a leaking slave cylinder and I replaced it. It was leaking at a seal so nothing major. I DID properly bleed the clutch with two friends. There was zero air in the line. I have been watching the fluid level and it has not changed unless adjusting the clutch throw.

I had been having problems with third gear only synchro grind and a tough time shifting into any other gear but no grinding. I watched jacks video on proper clutch adjustment and adjusted my clutch rod the way he said. I also adjusted the rod (1g only) that actually changes the position of the pedal so it would engage 2 inches out like he said. When I did this the clutch would become unadjusted in less than a MILE. After trying this 6 or 7 times I finally gave up and tried moving the clutch throw adjuster (the one by the clutch pedal not the adjustment rod for the master cylinder) all the way out so the clutch engaged at the top. IT WORKED and stayed adjusted!

So I drove about 9 miles to work and then 9 miles back, the car shifted like butter and the shifter just about fell into gear, it didn't grind or anything at high RPM but would slip from 3k-5k then grab hardcore and be able to hold boost until redline (figured I should test that).

My clutch is a ACT 2100 with a upgraded pressure plate (not sure which one the previous owner only had the receipt for the clutch, but he said it was a 2600) and my tranny was rebuilt only 10,000 miles ago by Lucas English, he uninstalled and reinstalled the tranny. There were no missing bolts or anything he even gave me new fluid lines on the tranny. My clutch also only has 30k on it, so I doubt it is a age thing. I also never really beat on my car since it's my DD, I've only hit full boost a few times and usually never boost more than 5 pounds before I let off.

Anyway, I go to pull the car out of the driveway. I leave my car in neutral so I shift into reverse and it grinds a BIT nothing major, but then as I get out of my driveway I push the clutch to the floor and the car keeps moving then stalls. I go to shift the car out reverse and into first and it is a bi*** to get it out of gear then I get into first and start the car and it jumps forward then dies. So I push my car into my driveway and look for leaks in the clutch lines. There are NONE.

I tried pushing in the slave and it would not move at all. So I was like alright it just came out of adjustment again no big deal. I readjust it with the 2 inches of play just to make sure it wasn't my fault and then get in and start the car... it does the SAME DAMN THING! I get out and make sure the slave is still moving, and it is. So I have my GFs brother push the clutch in, not only does it move but it has the proper amount of throw!

I also double checked the fluid level on the master cylinder and it was right where it should be.

I just don't get it, it was shifting perfectly fine then I park and boom this crap happens.



*edit* I could have sworn I was posting this in the drivetrain tech section but I guess I messed up. If a mod could move it I'd appreciate it.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Sounds like a magical experience. Are you sure that the slave/master aren't going bad? Or that that line for the slave isn't bulging when you press the pedal if you're still on the stock rubber line?

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Yep. Either you still have a crap load of air going on or your hydraulics are toast.
Go grab a rebuild for the master. 3min job to rebuild it. 2more for cleaning it all up and making it shiny.

It's likely that the cause of your wacky, inconsistent engagement is added stress to an old master cylinder. The slave was leaking before, and now that you've replaced it you've found the next weakest link. The master.

At least, that's how I see it.

 

[gusu]

Yep. Either you still have a crap load of air going on or your hydraulics are toast.
Go grab a rebuild for the master. 3min job to rebuild it. 2more for cleaning it all up and making it shiny.

It's likely that the cause of your wacky, inconsistent engagement is added stress to an old master cylinder. The slave was leaking before, and now that you've replaced it you've found the next weakest link. The master.

At least, that's how I see it.

Thanks for your reply. By the way I have submitted the thread to the moderators for me posting it in the wrong place so if it gets moved you know where to look (I don't know how I made the mistake I must have been really tired).

Anyway, I bled the clutch again today and the first hose I had was a bit to large and let air in, so I got all the air out. After that I thought I'd see if it was still doing it and it was. The funny thing is the slave looks like it is moving about where it should be and I don't see ANY signs of leaks and the fluid level stays the exact same. The lines are all new like stated before.

However after adjustment the pedal feels more weak than it did before I do believe you may be right on the master. What all does the master rebuild kit include and how hard is it to rebuild? Also do you know if there is a write up because I searched google, VFAQ and used the search feature on here and turned up no real good answers, just total master replacement which would not help in a rebuild. I was also wondering how I tell the difference in if it needs to be replaced or totally replaced?

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Thanks for your reply. By the way I have submitted the thread to the moderators for me posting it in the wrong place so if it gets moved you know where to look (I don't know how I made the mistake I must have been really tired).

Anyway, I bled the clutch again today and the first hose I had was a bit to large and let air in, so I got all the air out. After that I thought I'd see if it was still doing it and it was. The funny thing is the slave looks like it is moving about where it should be and I don't see ANY signs of leaks and the fluid level stays the exact same. The lines are all new like stated before.

However after adjustment the pedal feels more weak than it did before I do believe you may be right on the master. What all does the master rebuild kit include and how hard is it to rebuild? Also do you know if there is a write up because I searched google, VFAQ and used the search feature on here and turned up no real good answers, just total master replacement which would not help in a rebuild. I was also wondering how I tell the difference in if it needs to be replaced or totally replaced?

Come on, PC master! If you're as equipped as I am (and I know you are, and maybe then some) you can handle this with your eyes closed, haha! It's actually really easy. Pick up the rebuild kit for <$20 from Kragen/Orielly's/Advance/Autozone and you'll get a box that contains several parts, all pre-assembled. All you have to do is:
-remove master cylinder from car
-carefully, without stripping, remove the slotted set screw from the bottom of the base.
-remove all inside components and clean the inside
-place the spring that came in the rebuild kit (or reuse the original, they rarely go bad) onto the end with the shiny cup/thimble of the rod/shaft that was contained in the rebuild box
-push the assembly into the master until you can re-administer the set screw.

Enjoy hydraulic bliss.

 

[gusu]

Come on, PC master! If you're as equipped as I am (and I know you are, and maybe then some) you can handle this with your eyes closed, haha! It's actually really easy. Pick up the rebuild kit for <$20 from Kragen/Orielly's/Advance/Autozone and you'll get a box that contains several parts, all pre-assembled. All you have to do is:
-remove master cylinder from car
-carefully, without stripping, remove the slotted set screw from the bottom of the base.
-remove all inside components and clean the inside
-place the spring that came in the rebuild kit (or reuse the original, they rarely go bad) onto the end with the shiny cup/thimble of the rod/shaft that was contained in the rebuild box
-push the assembly into the master until you can re-administer the set screw.

Enjoy hydraulic bliss.

Thanks so much for your help. I am going to try this tomorrow. I already found out a rebuild kit is 6.29 at a O'Riley. I'm kind of curious as to why this kit is so cheap there but is 21 bucks at Autozone though. They also call it a "repair kit" which from what I've found from searching sounds like a alternative to saying rebuild kit.

I'd also like to add that the car will shift through the gears when the engine is off but not when it is on. I don't know if that helps any with a diagnosis but I thought I'd throw that out there.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

What this generally points towards is a dragging clutch - Simply put : Your clutch isn't disengaging and your synchros cannot slow the speed of the transmission to slip into or out of gear smoothly. No need to go into detail over the issue. It's an easy enough fix. It can only be Adjustment, Slave, Master, improperly bled clutch line, or a failing clutch assembly. By a longshot - Your transmission is dying.

 

[gusu]

What this generally points towards is a dragging clutch - Simply put : Your clutch isn't disengaging and your synchros cannot slow the speed of the transmission to slip into or out of gear smoothly. No need to go into detail over the issue. It's an easy enough fix. It can only be Adjustment, Slave, Master, improperly bled clutch line, or a failing clutch assembly. By a longshot - Your transmission is dying.

I had pretty much came to this same conclusion myself by reading several posts and different things on how clutches work in our cars. But I felt as though I should ask a few more questions to confirm my thoughts and see if there is anything else I should try.


Thanks again for all your helpful replies. I really do appreciate it.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

So how'd the rebuild go? It's tomorrow, isn't it?

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Yeah, we're a couple days of behind!

 

[gusu]

Well just to keep everyone updated.

When I went to remove the master the adjusting rod fell into my engine bay, my friend and I searched for a couple hours and had no luck. We tried rocking the car, rolling it down my driveway and slamming on the brakes, and even a power washer, nothing worked.

So I went to the junk yard and found two dodge stealths that used the same adjusting rod. I took the bolts off and this damn black beast circular piece of shit kept it from coming out. So i tried pulling the pin out but it was STUCK! After an hour of trying I gave up.

So i ordered a used master with the rod from dsmgraveyard for ten bucks and now I'm waiting on shipping.

What I noticed is on the 3000gt and stealth they both were hard to push the rod in. But on my master it was a joke, I'm not sure if that is an issue or not but I'm hoping this rebuild works.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Yup. Master Cyl issue. Especially now that there is no Rod.

 

[gusu]

Whats funny is that plate that holds the rod in was still in when the rod fell out and so was the clip!

 

[milby43]

Hey if you dont mind me cutting in. Im having a similar problem.

Just got my car back from the shop. And the clutch seems like it was bled improperly. Its spongy until you get down to where you feel clutch pressure more. Right near engagement/disengagement. Which is by the way, like right off the floor. And sometimes it wont like to go into 1st. Which I heard can be from clutch drag, and not being able to bring the synchros to speed properly.

So Im not leaking any fluid. Im gonna try a test someone said to try for clutch drag. Hold the clutch all the way down, and rev the engine up in first gear.

My shop said they didnt bleed the system after pulling my trans out. Which I think they should for that job.

Any ideas?

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Hey if you dont mind me cutting in. Im having a similar problem.

Just got my car back from the shop. And the clutch seems like it was bled improperly. Its spongy until you get down to where you feel clutch pressure more. Right near engagement/disengagement. Which is by the way, like right off the floor. And sometimes it wont like to go into 1st. Which I heard can be from clutch drag, and not being able to bring the synchros to speed properly.

So Im not leaking any fluid. Im gonna try a test someone said to try for clutch drag. Hold the clutch all the way down, and rev the engine up in first gear.

My shop said they didnt bleed the system after pulling my trans out. Which I think they should for that job.

Any ideas?

Several.

You need to make yourself your own thread and you should also go back to that shop and insist that they bleed your hydraulics and adjust the clutch properly. If I was paying for a tranny anything and they didn't bother to adjust the clutch or even to see if the vehicle was in good working order before giving it back to the customer, I'd be right pissed.

On the bright side, you likely just need to bleed your clutch and adjust it. Have fun.

Gusu,
I'm a little shocked that you managed to lose your master cylinder rod. I mean it's big, somewhat heavy.. you sure your carpet didn't suck it up between it and the floor? I don't recall the last time I stuck my head into the footwell of a 1g but I'm still intrigued.
Your master must have really been shot. There is a circlip type fastener that anchors the rod to the master it likely was already long gone or flung across the garage when you were tinkering.

Glad that $10 for a core was available to you.

 

[gusu]

So DSMgraveyard was sold out. I found that out today.

I got a new clutch master from Autozone to get the rod oh well. I installed it and bled the clutch, it would not get back to where it should be, I bleed it with a line to a bottle with fluid in it, no air was coming out after the first 3 pumps, the fluid would run and run and it would get stiff enough to return from the floor but wouldn't ever get enough pressure to be solid feeling. It just feels a bit gimpy.

I adjusted the rod the way it's supposed to be.

Then I attempted to start the car and at first it wanted to idle high probably from sitting it sputtered a bit then started running. After giving it some gas for a second it started to run fine. So I tried to shift the car into any gear and it still won't budge. After I turn off the car and put it into gear which works fine I try starting it again and it lunges forward like it has been.

Nothing changed after the new master. I'm not sure if this is a bleeding issue or what but I'm getting sick of not having my car. I'm not sure if since i have a act 2100 one of the springs gave way and now I'm having issues with it.



Oh, I'm using 3 dot brake fluid like everyone said.

I read something about a pump and hold method? I'm not quite sure if I bled it correctly after reading that.



*update* I tried this method http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj1dMdYgRK4 with no luck.

The issue i'm having is when the car is ON ONLY I lose hydraulic pressure. If it is OFF my car does NOT lose ANY pressure at all. I'm not sure what would cause this change but it's freakin weird. Maybe I should try bleeding the system with the car on? I noticed this after I started the car and tried to put it in a different gear. The car just lost all pressure and needs bleed again.

 

[gusu]

It ended up being that the pressure plate will not release.

I'm going to know what is causing it tomorrow morning.

 

[gusu]

I figured out what happened. My Act 2100 failed and destroyed my Street Lite flywheel.

 

[milby43]

Yea, my clutch pressure is actually is fine now. And it engages not right off the floor. seems fine.