New bolt on turbo choice besides 16g 2012

[talontd92tsi]

I was just wondering what you guys think. Now that the 16g turbos officially cost your first born child to own, what do you think the new bolt on turbo of choice for those looking for 300-350whp will be?

The scm5031e used to be the "other" 16g, but it seems to have lost popularity in recent years (it's design was ancient anyways, but effective none the less). I am just wondering what turbo will fill that $500 dollar turbo gap now left absent by the now $1000+ 16g based turbos.

 

[agentorange313]

I was just wondering what you guys think. Now that the 16g turbos officially cost your first born child to own, what do you think the new bolt on turbo of choice for those looking for 400-450whp will be?

The scm5031e used to be the "other" 16g, but it seems to have lost popularity in recent years (it's design was ancient anyways, but effective none the less). I am just wondering what turbo will fill that $500 dollar turbo gap now left absent by the now $1000+ 16g based turbos.

You should change the title to something like "New bolt on turbo choice besides 16g 2012" your title doesnt help at all when searching these forums


I think the most cost effective thing to do is buy a blown 16g and rebuild it with the proper rebuild kit. It should cost you less than 400, plus you can always upgrade the compressor wheel in the future.

If you need to buy a "brand new turbo" for 500 I think that a Holset hx35 would be better suited you, but a bolt on BEP housing is going to run another 150-200 depending if its new or used.

 

[gofer]

For those DSMers looking to make 400-450whp the 16g was never the turbo of choice, but onto your question.

A relatively lost cost turbo setup that won't break the bank that can flow 50lbs/min would be the HX35 in a bolt on BEP back side.

 

[Boosted98gsx]

Or if you want ultra bling, and maximum area under the curve for your setup, look into an FP turbine housing setup of a GT3076r (http://store.forcedperformance.net/...uct_Code=NTDSMFP76HTA&Category_Code=DSM-Turbo). Ultra quick spool up, maximum airflow for the compressor geometry, and designed to work specifically for small displacement gasoline engines.

Go HTA if you want the best of the best for your money. A robust ball bearing CHRA that (as long as the engine is regularly maintained, and proper precautions are taken, ie oil prefilter) should never fail on you coupled to a milled billet compressor wheel for maximum compressor airflow and the proven GT series turbine wheel.

A 3076r is pretty much the perfect and ideal turbo for a 2.0L engine for a user wanting to make 450-500, have ultra quick spool up (not sudden onset boost that can and will harm your drivetrain from the sudden shock of the torque) and have a turbo that will last (and not have the ever present risk of journal bearings).

 

[Aproductions]

I gotta agree with Gofer, the holsets are amazing turbos for cheap.

 

[TSi Kid]

what do you think the new bolt on turbo of choice for those looking for 300-350whp will be?

And then this...

For those DSMers looking to make 400-450whp the 16g was never the turbo of choice, but onto your question.

Why would you not just recommend a rebuilt 16g? An hx35 for 300whp is a little over kill..

 

[nicknorth11]

Or if you want ultra bling, and maximum area under the curve for your setup, look into an FP turbine housing setup of a GT3076r (http://store.forcedperformance.net/...uct_Code=NTDSMFP76HTA&Category_Code=DSM-Turbo). Ultra quick spool up, maximum airflow for the compressor geometry, and designed to work specifically for small displacement gasoline engines.

Go HTA if you want the best of the best for your money. A robust ball bearing CHRA that (as long as the engine is regularly maintained, and proper precautions are taken, ie oil prefilter) should never fail on you coupled to a milled billet compressor wheel for maximum compressor airflow and the proven GT series turbine wheel.

A 3076r is pretty much the perfect and ideal turbo for a 2.0L engine for a user wanting to make 450-500, have ultra quick spool up (not sudden onset boost that can and will harm your drivetrain from the sudden shock of the torque) and have a turbo that will last (and not have the ever present risk of journal bearings).

He asks for a $500 turbo and you suggest a $1,749 Turbo!?!?

I would also suggest the holsets. They're cheap to buy and rebuild and perform great. Plus, there's one for everybody.

 

[Boosted98gsx]

He asks for a $500 turbo and you suggest a $1,749 Turbo!?!?

I would also suggest the holsets. They're cheap to buy and rebuild and perform great. Plus, there's one for everybody.

I was offering a counter argument to the holset option for a 400-500hp turbo.

If the OP is looking for a 300-350 hp turbo, Evo3 16g all the way. Buy a used one (with no damage) send it off to be inspected / rebuilt / balanced, and boost on. Just like for any turbo, however, add in a oil feed prefilter to keep junk out of your bearings.

 

[nicknorth11]

I was offering a counter argument to the holset option for a 400-500hp turbo.

He's not looking for a $1,700 Turbo.

I am just wondering what turbo will fill that $500 dollar turbo gap now left absent by the now $1000+ 16g based turbos.

 

[talontd92tsi]

You should change the title to something like "New bolt on turbo choice besides 16g 2012" your title doesnt help at all when searching these forums


I think the most cost effective thing to do is buy a blown 16g and rebuild it with the proper rebuild kit. It should cost you less than 400, plus you can always upgrade the compressor wheel in the future.

If you need to buy a "brand new turbo" for 500 I think that a holset would be better suited you, but a bolt on BEP housing is going to run another 150-200 depending if its new or used.

Edited Title, thanks for the suggestion, I couldn't really think of anything else to make it at the time of the post.

For those DSMers looking to make 400-450whp the 16g was never the turbo of choice, but onto your question.

A relatively lost cost turbo setup that won't break the bank that can flow 50lbs/min would be the HX35 in a bolt on BEP back side.

Edited again, that was supposed to say 300-350 whp, stupid fat fingered laptop with no numerical pad.

I'm honestly clueless about this right now. Back in the day a 20G was "race only", now people run 600 capable turbos (GT35 and the like) on the street a lot more often than they used to.

I plan on upgrading from my 14b soon, and don't want/need something that is going to be stupid laggy and only have power from 5500 RPM up. I was considering either the 68hta or an Evo3, but those turbos are completely out of the question now (if I spend 1k on a turbo, it is going to make more than a 16g)

Not so sure about the Holset's yet. Not due to durability, but it seems to be a huge hassle to make it work, and work right.

I want a simple, bolt on turbo, not something that I have to source, find a housing for, modify the oil pan, blah blah blah.

 

[Boosted98gsx]

I'm honestly clueless about this right now. Back in the day a 20G was "race only", now people run 600 capable turbos (GT35 and the like) on the street a lot more often than they used to.

I plan on upgrading from my 14b soon, and don't want/need something that is going to be stupid laggy and only have power from 5500 RPM up. I was considering either the 68hta or an Evo3, but those turbos are completely out of the question now (if I spend 1k on a turbo, it is going to make more than a 16g)

Not so sure about the Holset's yet. Not due to durability, but it seems to be a huge hassle to make it work, and work right.

I want a simple, bolt on turbo, not something that I have to source, find a housing for, modify the oil pan, blah blah blah.

That's because turbo tech has come a long way since the "you get what's available" from a mix-and-match diesel application turbo setup. You can configure large turbos to behave very nicely on the street (billet compressors that spool with a fart into the turbine), especially ball bearing units that are making + intake manifold pressures below 2k rpms. Makes for a nice smooth onset torque curve for street light to street light driving.

Plus, it gives you the overhead to crank up the boost and make the power when you want to. I'd rather have a multitasking turbo that can perform when I want it to, and behave on the street when I don't.

 

[BigBeans]

Or if you want ultra bling, and maximum area under the curve for your setup, look into an FP turbine housing setup of a GT3076r (Forced Performance Turbochargers: FP HTA DSM76 Ball Bearing Turbocharger). Ultra quick spool up, maximum airflow for the compressor geometry, and designed to work specifically for small displacement gasoline engines.

Go HTA if you want the best of the best for your money. A robust ball bearing CHRA that (as long as the engine is regularly maintained, and proper precautions are taken, ie oil prefilter) should never fail on you coupled to a milled billet compressor wheel for maximum compressor airflow and the proven GT series turbine wheel.

A 3076r is pretty much the perfect and ideal turbo for a 2.0L engine for a user wanting to make 450-500, have ultra quick spool up (not sudden onset boost that can and will harm your drivetrain from the sudden shock of the torque) and have a turbo that will last (and not have the ever present risk of journal bearings).

Not really relevant to this budget minded thread:

The better move now is to buy the GTX30R without a hot side, and then grab the bolt on hot side from Forced Performance.

Bolt on 30R that flows 65lbs.

Garrett GTX3076R GTX30R Upgrade Ball Bearing Turbo | eBay

and

Forced Performance Turbochargers: FP30 Style Turbine Housing


My FP3052 has been bullet proof so far, i just wish it had a little more kick. This might be my next setup if i decide not to go 35R. Only downside is it costs about $1850.

The results from some of the local honda and subaru guys using GTX turbos are very impressive. The X30R spools just as fast as an HTA and flows a lot more.

 

[Alex7747]

Edited Title, thanks for the suggestion, I couldn't really think of anything else to make it at the time of the post.




Edited again, that was supposed to say 300-350 whp, stupid fat fingered laptop with no numerical pad.

I'm honestly clueless about this right now. Back in the day a 20G was "race only", now people run 600 capable turbos (GT35 and the like) on the street a lot more often than they used to.

I plan on upgrading from my 14b soon, and don't want/need something that is going to be stupid laggy and only have power from 5500 RPM up. I was considering either the 68hta or an Evo3, but those turbos are completely out of the question now (if I spend 1k on a turbo, it is going to make more than a 16g)

Not so sure about the Holset's yet. Not due to durability, but it seems to be a huge hassle to make it work, and work right.

I want a simple, bolt on turbo, not something that I have to source, find a housing for, modify the oil pan, blah blah blah.

With a BEP bolt on housing there isn't any modifications you would have to perform.
Bullseye Power HX35 DSM Turbine Housing
With a holset turbo you could find on here for about 300, you would be at about 600$ and have a 50lbs/min turbo that is bolt on. (If you get the internally gated housing of course)

 

[Alex7747]

That's because turbo tech has come a long way since the "you get what's available" from a mix-and-match diesel application turbo setup. You can configure large turbos to behave very nicely on the street (billet compressors that spool with a fart into the turbine), especially ball bearing units that are making + intake manifold pressures below 2k rpms. Makes for a nice smooth onset torque curve for street light to street light driving.

Plus, it gives you the overhead to crank up the boost and make the power when you want to. I'd rather have a multitasking turbo that can perform when I want it to, and behave on the street when I don't.

the guys asking for a 500$ turbo, not a 1800$ turbo. Plain and simple..

 

[TSi Kid]

Edited again, that was supposed to say 300-350 whp, stupid fat fingered laptop with no numerical pad.

I'm honestly clueless about this right now. Back in the day a 20G was "race only", now people run 600 capable turbos (GT35 and the like) on the street a lot more often than they used to.

I plan on upgrading from my 14b soon, and don't want/need something that is going to be stupid laggy and only have power from 5500 RPM up. I was considering either the 68hta or an Evo3, but those turbos are completely out of the question now (if I spend 1k on a turbo, it is going to make more than a 16g)

Not so sure about the Holset's yet. Not due to durability, but it seems to be a huge hassle to make it work, and work right.

I want a simple, bolt on turbo, not something that I have to source, find a housing for, modify the oil pan, blah blah blah.

I don't know why this thread has still been going on. For around $500 your best bet BY FAR is to just find a reputable rebuilt 16g and call it a day. Spending $1000+ on a 300whp turbo is about on the same level as burning twenty dollar bills for sh*ts and giggles. Go buy a 16g already..

 

[Boosted98gsx]

the guys asking for a 500$ turbo, not a 1800$ turbo. Plain and simple..

Don't misconstrue what I'm stating. I was simply responding to his questioning of why people run big turbos well below their intended usage pressure ratios.

Check up a couple posts. I'm still standing by my evo3 16g for his HP goals. The problem is, as he's stated is a dichotomy for him, is that it won't leave him room to grow out of those hp ranges.

 

[talontd92tsi]

I'm not completely sold on the DSM Holset concept yet. I see the results and such, but there are more modifications than just slapping on the housing. The stock Oil drain seems ineffective for these turbos, so there's a modified oil pan, a new oil feed line, a new oil drain, modify/remove the water cooling to the CHRA, etc, etc.

PLUS, the odds are that the turbo is going to need rebuilt, so add a couple hundred more in there for that too.

New (i.e. not used), Bolt on, 16g power, reasonable price. That's what I'm looking for.

If it doesn't exist anymore, then that is one thing, but I'm very particular when it comes to buying used turbos, meaning I don't trust anyone anymore, as I have been burned too many times.

If it doesn't exist anymore, some of these turbo manufactures should be looking to fill that gaping hole in the market.

 

[Alex7747]

I'm not completely sold on the DSM Holset concept yet. I see the results and such, but there are more modifications than just slapping on the housing. The stock Oil drain seems ineffective for these turbos, so there's a modified oil pan, a new oil feed line, a new oil drain, modify/remove the water cooling to the CHRA, etc, etc.

PLUS, the odds are that the turbo is going to need rebuilt, so add a couple hundred more in there for that too.

New (i.e. not used), Bolt on, 16g power, reasonable price. That's what I'm looking for.

Oh, gotcha. Well for 500$, you're not going to find a 16g (that is NEW) or any bolt on turbo...Unless you get an ebay turbo

 

[Boosted98gsx]

If it doesn't exist anymore, then that is one thing, but I'm very particular when it comes to buying used turbos, meaning I don't trust anyone anymore, as I have been burned too many times.

If it doesn't exist anymore, some of these turbo manufactures should be looking to fill that gaping hole in the market.

Look for FP to be coming out with a 16gish ranged compressor / turbine if MHI keeps their prices this high in the long run. It's just a bad time for the market.

 

[talontd92tsi]

Oh, gotcha. Well for 500$, you're not going to find a 16g (that is NEW) or any bolt on turbo...Unless you get an ebay turbo

Not gonna happen. Why would I take my perfectly good 14b off to put on a turbo that is going to last about as long as it takes to swap out .

Look for FP to be coming out with a 16gish ranged compressor / turbine if MHI keeps their prices this high in the long run. It's just a bad time for the market.

Someone's gotta do it cause this is ridiculous. I can't believe that anyone would actually buy a 16g for >1k. Simply not worth it.

 

[JusMX141]

I'm not completely sold on the DSM Holset concept yet. I see the results and such, but there are more modifications than just slapping on the housing. The stock Oil drain seems ineffective for these turbos, so there's a modified oil pan, a new oil feed line, a new oil drain, modify/remove the water cooling to the CHRA, etc, etc.

You have to do this for any of the Garrett hybrids as well.

Garrett T3's were never intended to drain through a -10AN line when you're feeding the turbo 100psi from the filter housing through a -4AN feed. Occasionally it works, which is enough for most companies to offer a kit I suppose.

PLUS, the odds are that the turbo is going to need rebuilt, so add a couple hundred more in there for that too.

Not necessarily- buy from a known-running source instead of a core supplier.

New (i.e. not used), Bolt on, 16g power, reasonable price. That's what I'm looking for.

Doesn't exist anymore. Actually it didn't exist back when Evo III's were $550 new. The idea that a new turbo could be bought for not much more than most places charged for a rebuild is something DSMers got used to....now that Mitsubishi has all but given up building new turbos for a 17-year-old Evo III, everyone's in crisis mode.

 

[Alex7747]

Not gonna happen. Why would I take my perfectly good 14b off to put on a turbo that is going to last about as long as it takes to swap out .

, i was being sarcastic.

 

[TSi Kid]

If it doesn't exist anymore, some of these turbo manufactures should be looking to fill that gaping hole in the market.

An hx or hy 30 with a mitsu housing wouldn't be too bad..

 

[JusMX141]

Someone's gotta do it cause this is ridiculous. I can't believe that anyone would actually buy a 16g for >1k. Simply not worth it.

Ridiculous? Go check pricing for other OEM platform turbos.....Evo X's, SRT4's, all of the VW's and Audi's, etc. NO other OEM turbo can be purchased as cheap as the Evo III had been offered the past few years.

You guys just got used to cheap upgrades, and now they're gone.

An hx or hy 30 with a mitsu housing wouldn't be too bad..

HY30's don't exist, and HX30's will never fit a Mitsu housing.

You clearly have no input on this topic.

 

[Alex7747]

Ridiculous? Go check pricing for other OEM platform turbos.....Evo X's, SRT4's, all of the VW's and Audi's, etc. NO other OEM turbo can be purchased as cheap as the Evo III had been offered the past few years.

You guys just got used to cheap upgrades, and now they're gone.


HY30's don't exist, and HX30's will never fit a Mitsu housing.

You clearly have no input on this topic.

What do you think would be the best turbo choice for the OP?
I say HX35 all the way . If he's looking for a little extra power, cheaper then most other turbos, and reliability.
Used 16g if he wants to keep it close to stock.