Need some advice... blown turbo

[ohmygahitsjosh]

So as luck would have it 5 days after I bought my 98 gsx, the turbo blew.
I ran a compression test and dropped the oil pan to make sure it didnt mess anything up in my motor and I found some amazingly fun little tid bits of unidentified material inside.

I posted some photos of what I found in another thread and was told it could possibly be balance shaft bearings so Im in the process of tearing the block apart and check things out.

Now for my question and the entire reason for this post...

Money is tight at the moment and I really need to get the car back on the road where its my DD... I have about $1400 or so available for parts so I guess Im asking for anyone who has a bunch of extra time on their hands to give me some advice on what to do from here...

Keep in mind im going to at least need to drop some $$ on a new head gasket/valve cover gasket/oil pan gasket etc

Also I noticed the exhuast mani has a couple hairline cracks starting to form

My main concern is I dont want to drop like $1k on an evo 3 16g/o2 housing/and 2g install kit etc then be stuck waiting til I can afford all the proper supporting mods to run it....

Itd have been nice to just be able to start piecing together the supporting mods with the $1400 and then worry about the turbo, but unfortunately I have amazing luck ha.

Anyways, Id rather not ppl waste their time and mine talking $hit about this post, Im fairly new to the dsm world, Ive spent the last week or so researching a billion different options but every so often I come across little things I missed so I just want to make sure I avoid that.

Current mods are as follows:
Dave brode UIP
1g bov
MBC
Boost gauge
RVM Intake


Things I definately NEED to buy:
Head gasket, valve cover gasket, oil pan gasket
Exhaust mani gasket
All gaskets to install turbo and o2 housing
Oil and water lines
Turbo

Things i SHOULD buy:
Exhaust mani


Thanks in advance for anyone who actually gives me some constructive advice.
-Josh

 

[1gengsx]

What exactly blew on the turbo? Is it rebuildable? If so thats your cheapest route. I rebuilt my 16g my self and it works great.

 

[LiquidX]

Well, first off, are you pulling the block and rebuilding that or no? As per head, what is damaged on it? If everything is in check than leave it be.

If the block and head are not getting re surfaced just get an OEM composite head gasket and throw in some ARP head studs. That will be around $140 for both and it's also a good time to put in new valve stem seals, cams (Delta Camshaft regrinds are very affordable last time I looked), cam seals and revised lifters.

Pulling the timing belt off you will also want a full timing kit and to install the balance shaft elimination kit. Water pump can be auto store but you should get an OEM oil pump.

Search the classifieds for an exahust manifold but if you want a good bolt on style check out the Forced Performance Race Manifold. You can use your current o2 housing but the Megan Racing o2 is tubular, lighter and affordable as well if you want to upgrade that too.

If you are just trying to find a turbo to get by on for now then either look for a used T-25 or just get a rebuild kit and rebuild yours. There are write ups on here and you do not need to send it out to get balanced as long as you mark orientation for the compressor, lock nut, and the shaft. It's only rebuildable if you do not have wheel damage and housing contact. Otherwise you would need a new CHRA and possibly new housings as well. If you don't want to, contact JusMX141 (Justin) and he'll help you out with your turbo issues.

As for supporting mods, Tech Guide: 2G 4G63t Upgrades - DSMtuners


Also, it's RVR intake manifold not RVM Did you port the inlet to 60mm and bolt on a 1g TB too? Doing that makes it the same as an Evo3 IM (That's what I'm running, ported RVR)


Any questions post them up

 

[ohmygahitsjosh]

What exactly blew on the turbo? Is it rebuildable? If so thats your cheapest route. I rebuilt my 16g my self and it works great.

The turbine like came out a bit and so all the blades are mangled and tore ha :/

Unfortunately the previous owner had the boost turned up to 17 or so when I got it... and before I could read up enough on the car to realize that was probably pushing it a bit too much it gave out.

So yea Im thinking rebuilding isnt an option, and buying used makes me a bit nervous especially after this happening ### sometimes you just dont know hard the previous owner was beating on it


and Liquidx thanks for the tips, as of right now Im just pulling everything apart to figure out why there were these bearing pieces and parts of a snap ring and such in my oil pan... Im def no expert on working on engines or cars in general really ha but the head seems to be still in great shape i ran a compression test (cold) and all 4 cylinders read 180psi (except cylinder 1 didnt make full pressure for like 26 cranks? which was weird, but it kept building each crank and held at 180 after so it was even more confusing ha it reached about 150 after 10 cranks)

Feel free to look up my other post regarding the debris in the oil pan and give me your .02 as to what you think it could be

 

[diamond-star]

So as luck would have it 5 days after I bought my 98 gsx, the turbo blew.
I ran a compression test and dropped the oil pan to make sure it didnt mess anything up in my motor and I found some amazingly fun little tid bits of unidentified material inside.

I posted some photos of what I found in another thread and was told it could possibly be balance shaft bearings so Im in the process of tearing the block apart and check things out.

Now for my question and the entire reason for this post...

Money is tight at the moment and I really need to get the car back on the road where its my DD... I have about $1400 or so available for parts so I guess Im asking for anyone who has a bunch of extra time on their hands to give me some advice on what to do from here...

Keep in mind im going to at least need to drop some $$ on a new head gasket/valve cover gasket/oil pan gasket etc



Also I noticed the exhuast mani has a couple hairline cracks starting to form

My main concern is I dont want to drop like $1k on an evo 3 16g/o2 housing/and 2g install kit etc then be stuck waiting til I can afford all the proper supporting mods to run it....

Itd have been nice to just be able to start piecing together the supporting mods with the $1400 and then worry about the turbo, but unfortunately I have amazing luck ha.

Anyways, Id rather not ppl waste their time and mine talking $hit about this post, Im fairly new to the dsm world, Ive spent the last week or so researching a billion different options but every so often I come across little things I missed so I just want to make sure I avoid that.

Current mods are as follows:
Dave brode UIP
1g bov
MBC
Boost gauge
RVM Intake


Things I definately NEED to buy:
Head gasket, valve cover gasket, oil pan gasket
Exhaust mani gasket
All gaskets to install turbo and o2 housing
Oil and water lines
Turbo

Things i SHOULD buy:
Exhaust mani


Thanks in advance for anyone who actually gives me some constructive advice.
-Josh

good headbolts..i would not reuse old one...

 

[ohmygahitsjosh]

I had seen packages somewhere that had a cometic head gasket and arp head studs... would I need something like that? or is the composite gasket you were reffering to something different...

 

[LiquidX]

I had seen packages somewhere that had a cometic head gasket and arp head studs... would I need something like that? or is the composite gasket you were reffering to something different...

The Cometic is a MLS head gasket and all metal head gaskets whether they are multi layered or a thick single layer require that you have both the head and block resurfaced to remove any imperfection or crevices where sealing will be hard to obtain. Composite gaskets will fill in those creases creating a seal and the OEM one is good for about 28psi but it's just a mess when you go to pull the head

Composite gaskets are just a mix of soft materials. Very similar to exhaust gaskets you would use at the flanges. The shiny graphite looking ones.

 

[JusMX141]

I posted some photos of what I found in another thread and was told it could possibly be balance shaft bearings so Im in the process of tearing the block apart and check things out.

You're wasting your time tearing the engine down....those are all parts from the T25 that went down the oil drain and into the pan.

What exactly blew on the turbo? Is it rebuildable? If so thats your cheapest route. I rebuilt my 16g my self and it works great.

What caused it to blow? Who knows...it's a T25. You're on borrowed time if you're over 60k or up the boost above stock levels with one of those piece of shit.

Is it rebuildable? Absolutely not. Did your 16G blow so badly that there were pieces of journal bearing in the oil pan?

 

[brian9397gsx]

well thats some good news then

 

[ohmygahitsjosh]

haha awesome.
well I suppose it never hurts to give it a cleanup while its apart and replacing the gaskets was a good thing so thank you everyone for your input its helped a bunch

Would it make sense to change up my cams/gears if I dont really plan on ever running anything more than a e316g or t28?

 

[LiquidX]

haha awesome.
well I suppose it never hurts to give it a cleanup while its apart and replacing the gaskets was a good thing so thank you everyone for your input its helped a bunch

Would it make sense to change up my cams/gears if I dont really plan on ever running anything more than a e316g or t28?

If you want to move your power band and help your motor breath a little better in the higher rpm then get some cams. You'll loose low end torque however if you swap them out.

It's all RPM dependent and boost will make some difference too.

 

[ohmygahitsjosh]

Alright thanks for the info

where my turbo is blown completely and i want to upgrade in the future, is there anyway to stay inside my price range, still get my engine back together (gaskets and studs etc) and go to an upgraded turbo set up?

Im only still on the stock sidemount/injectors/pump etc and i dont have any way to tune/log either...

I wouldnt mind having to keep the boost low til I could afford the proper mods to turn it up if its possible, just to avoid spending extra cash on a turbo im not going to keep... thoughts?

 

[JusMX141]

Good used or rebuilt 14B.

 

[ohmygahitsjosh]

if i could get a good deal on a t28 would that be too big to run even at low boost? That should be a direct swap with for my stock one right? so i wouldnt have to afford the extra install kit pieces...

 

[diamond-star]

if i could get a good deal on a t28 would that be too big to run even at low boost? That should be a direct swap with for my stock one right? so i wouldnt have to afford the extra install kit pieces...

yea t28 is a bolt on for you
a 14b will out flow and is very tough compaired to a t25.iam not sure of a 28 though on flow. but i would go 14b and call it a day.
there cheaper then a t28 but what if your t25-t28 does this again ?
trust me you will love a 14b great spool and room to grow..did you know a 14b can have you in the 12 sec range in the quarter mile? and close to 300whp?..there dam good turbos. and very a cheap power adder

 

[JusMX141]

if i could get a good deal on a t28 would that be too big to run even at low boost?

Deals do not exist on T28's. These are not a production turbo, and those selling them know this. I've yet to see a good usable T28 go for less than $350-$400.

With that in mind, a $150 14B sure sounds appealing, doesn't it? Slot the holes in your stock oil drain, buy an oil supply line and j-pipe setup for around $75 and for around $200 you have a turbo that is head and shoulders more reliable than a T25.

 

[Dert]

Deals do not exist on T28's. These are not a production turbo, and those selling them know this. I've yet to see a good usable T28 go for less than $350-$400.

With that in mind, a $150 14B sure sounds appealing, doesn't it? Slot the holes in your stock oil drain, buy an oil supply line and j-pipe setup for around $75 and for around $200 you have a turbo that is head and shoulders more reliable than a T25.

and also keep in mind, just to add on to jusmx, if you go the 14b route you are now set up to upgrade to 16g when you want (provided you keep boost at or below 15psi untill supporting mods and maintanence are dont), and to the post unsure of t28 flow, i believe it is around 36lbs which if I'm not mistaken the 14b can do and costs 1/8 the price

 

[turbo laser]

My 2 cents. I would go with a used 14b through the classifieds as many people are always upgrading and getting rid of them. I mean I have a cxracing 16g, i've put on 10k miles and whenever i just had the turbo off, I had no shaft play what so ever. Its been run on 17psi daily. Its really upto you what you want to do. As for the manifold, either have it welded or look through the classifieds for another 2g manifold, or a aftermarket one if you can get a deal on one.

 

[97-gst]

+1 on the 14b

 

[ohmygahitsjosh]

yea i saw that cxracing kit while i was searching for any sort of all inclusive upgrade package to see if i could save some $$ but theres always so much debate on the stuff it kinda scares me away a bit...

tho I still havent come across any stories specific to the cx racing stuff being shitty, its up in the air i guess.

I noticed most of the threads about ebay shit that ACTUALLY shit out are from over 3 years ago, id like to think companies have improved their product in those 3 years or they still wouldnt be selling it... and it also seems almost every negative story about them if thru word of mouth of some guy who knew a guy who read somewhere that these 3 guys were all dating this one chick who blew a guy they knew from summer camp and his dad's 4th cousin had one that blew up his engine ha and for all we know it blew up the engine because it was installed improperly or they were just abusing the $hit out of it

so I guess who knows...
then theres also the idea that if someone was to be selling the more expensive mhi turbo or w.e. that it seems like a viable theory that maybe they post on these boards to try and scare people into spending the extra $$ on their product instead as im sure the cheaper turbos do cut into their business and it really does come down to everyone just wanting to make $ off you... they got bills to pay just like everyone else

and i DO come across a ton of ppl that have success with these 'knock off' turbos.. but the same thing applies to both sides... i havent come across any dyno info, or time slips or any sort of hard factual number evidence to support the turbo being as good or inferior (tho i have read some numbers about flowing less air but i mean for less then half price itd still make a decent option for someone that wasnt needing to max out a legit mhi evo 3
and for I know some of these ppl saying the good things about the knock offs might also work for a company that SELLS the knock offs and are just trying to help convince ppl to take the plunge that way ha


with so many unknown factors it really does make it hard to set in stone.. and so i suppose there will ALWAYS be this debate and these random ebay turbo threads til the end of time haha

i mean just because a product sucks over all doesnt mean that some people wont end up with a good functioning unit, its that way with everything in life... big name expensive quality items sometimes break the first day you get them and sometimes shitty POS quality things last way past when they SHOULD have broken haha i guess it just comes down to probability...

if you take 1000 turbos from ebay/ss/cxracing etc and 1000 mhi e3's
im sure both groups will have defective units...
but its probably more like 7 of the mhi's will defect and 45 of the knock offs...

obviously dont get on my case about the numbers im using these are completely made up, im just trying to express a point...

statistically you probably would end up with a working turbo... as i doubt over 500 of the 1000 would be defective... but it comes down to it that you just have a higher chance of getting a defective unit with the knock offs... or at least from all the research ive been doing that is what it seems...

most of the 'knock off review' threads on various boards never actually follow thru all the way, and after 6 months the thread dies and your not sure the outcome...

someone one day who has like... a severe amount of $$ to blow should do a study like that and take 100 or 200 (prefferably more) turbos from both sides and test them head to head

1 on 1 testing isnt very accurate because for all your know you might have a slightly defective mhi vs the one perfectly constructed and balanced knock off or vice versa... you need to always test multiple items to really do a true comparison

to be honest im not sure why i just wrote all this up, it doesnt really fit into my own thread so much, but i guess it has been on my mind for a bit with all this reading ive been doing

haha


thanks for everyones input on my threads by the way
it really helps out a lot and i appreciate it

-josh

 

[Dert]

My 2 cents. I would go with a used 14b through the classifieds as many people are always upgrading and getting rid of them. I mean I have a cxracing 16g, i've put on 10k miles and whenever i just had the turbo off, I had no shaft play what so ever. Its been run on 17psi daily. Its really upto you what you want to do. As for the manifold, either have it welded or look through the classifieds for another 2g manifold, or a aftermarket one if you can get a deal on one.

I also have cxracing 16g with over 10thou on it no shaft play at all, cxracing seems to be a reputable company

 

[wranglerunner22]

If your looking to get your car back on the road for right now. Pick up a 14b used. You can find them for 100-150. Get whatever install kit you need (I have no clue since I have a 1g already).


But yes 14b is a very nice all around turbo.

 

[ohmygahitsjosh]

well would it be worth trying out theyre turbo kit for $879 (16g + install kit + bov + fmic) or should I stick with picking up a name brand tried and true e316g and the pipes and lines to install for around $950...

 

[907gs-t]

I run the FP BT-28 ported & I love the fact it looks stock.

 

[Coreyred95]

I would stick with name brand stuff unless you want to be doing all of this work again in the near future. I would never put anything less on my baby