My old highschool car

[We're on Boost]

This is what the TmngMaxOCT is currently at when I opend it.

Ok yeah those timing numbers are what I'd expect for the stock 1g.
Your 20 degrees at 1150 rpm idle, if your load factor at the time was either 0.5, 0.6, or 0.7, that 20 degrees would be right on correct per the chart. So that's probably correct, but you'd have to have Load Factor turned on in your logs to look it up for real.

But I see your Target Idle speed is 850 rpm. So in that video (idle not surging) it's still messed up a little because it's at 1150 rpm with 0% throttle. You'd expect it to be at the Target idle of 850 with 0 throttle if the engine is warmed up. That's why we need to display Idle Sw (idle switch) in your logs. And we need Coolant Temp working. Idle Sw will show either a 1 or a 0 in your logs. A 1 when it's idling. A 0 the rest of the time. It's a physical switch on your throttle body and it tells the ecu that you want it to idle. If your physical idle switch doesn't work there's a workaround, but turn Idle Sw on in your logs first so we can see if it's working. Display TPS Volts also.

Since your Coolant Temp in these videos isn't working yet, we don't know how warm the engine is. If these videos were shot on a cold engine during warmup, that would throw some things off too.

 

[We're on Boost]

I am pretty sure I need to bring the afr on the open loop down to where they are green ?

No, those AFR targets are another thing that goes by Load Factor. That column of numbers that goes down the far left side of the chart is all Load Factor numbers. That's why at the top in parenthesis it says RPM x LoadFactor. (RPM by Load Factor)
Normally a proper chart would have the vertical and horizontal axes labeled directly so it's clear. Some of these charts are a little ambiguous about how they are labeled, in ECMlink.
All those target AFR's that are less than 10 are awfully rich. I think they just wanted to put safe numbers in there for you to start from. Then as you work on your tune with higher boost where you'd be getting into that part of the chart, you'd try to not have it that rich. You'd do that by having less ignition advance, or whatever.

Th3 speed density weighting pic. Dose that mean this car has speed density and I need to select that for my MAF. it has a gm 3 inch maf and I have stock selected because it dosnt have it as a option.

Those speed density pages are in there whether you are using SD or not. They just aren't used if you are using a MAF.
If you have Stock selected for the Base MAF Type, that is correct if your GM MAF is wired to a MAF Translator and the Translator is set for 1g DSM and 3" MAF,, and the Translator output wire goes to the MAF input on the ECU.
I think I just invented the double comma. I like it. Going to re-evaluate tomorrow after some sleep.

 

[awdtsi_90]

I don't have the maf translator just the gm maf. I thought with dsm link i could run the gm maf and not need the maft. Is that why it says in the dtc "Volume air flow circuit malfunction"? I did get more items put on the log to see and watch them. I need to get more gas in the car tomorow. Would it be smart to fix the coolant sensor & plug in before I let it run at idle and look at what's going on? Those 2 issues would be throwing false numbers or causing the ecu to try and correct them wouldn't it?

Here is the gm maf plugged in. Outside of that there is nothing else. I am not even sure the car has a MAP sensor. I am a full noob with all of this but sm going to be looking for a map sensor when I get home.

P.s. The gm maf is in the intake pipe before turbo like the stock maf is.

 

[awdtsi_90]

What would cause the timing degree to be so high?

 

[We're on Boost]

I don't have the maf translator just the gm maf. I thought with dsm link i could run the gm maf and not need the maft. Is that why it says in the dtc "Volume air flow circuit malfunction"? I did get more items put on the log to see and watch them. I need to get more gas in the car tomorow. Would it be smart to fix the coolant sensor & plug in before I let it run at idle and look at what's going on? Those 2 issues would be throwing false numbers or causing the ecu to try and correct them wouldn't it?

Here is the gm maf plugged in. Outside of that there is nothing else. I am not even sure the car has a MAP sensor. I am a full noob with all of this but sm going to be looking for a map sensor when I get home.

P.s. The gm maf is in the intake pipe before turbo like the stock maf is.

If you are going to use the GM MAF you have to have either a Translator or you else you have to have the ECMlink GM MAF Cable. They don't make that cable anymore. If you don't have either one of those things, I'm a little puzzled that the car runs at all. I guess it can run on some kind of fail-to-limp-mode that the ecu has to get you home in the case of a MAF failure. But that would be terrible once you get to driving with it.

I'm trying to remember if we talked about that cable before or if you had one on the other car. I think you had a translator on the other car. But from what I remember it was in the engine bay and it was pretty corroded looking inside. I think that was a major downfall of the Translators. People would put them in the engine bay. The Translator I had in my car until 2015 was built into the ECU+ and that was in the cabin where it was always clean and comfy, and it worked perfectly. Well, as perfect as anything ever is in these cars.

You'll need the O2 working and the coolant temp sensor working no matter what you do, so I'd keep working on those 2 things.
If the engine starts and runs good enough to make another log, I'd say run it for 4 or 5 minutes, log the whole run including cranking to start, and post the log file here in the thread. To post one of those files you post it the same way you post a picture. The log files in your laptop will have a .elg at the end of the file name in Windows File Explorer. 5 minutes is about how long it takes for the engine to come up to 180 - 185 degrees from a "cold" start on a warm day, so it should be enough to show us a full warmup without danger of overheating. But if it's running really crappy don't even run it that long.

If you really don't have either a Translator or the ECMtuning cable for GM MAF, then you're probably either going to change it to Speed Density, or get a stock 1g MAF to put on it, or a 2g MAF.
BTW your timing of 20 degrees at 1150 rpm isn't actually high, like I said in post #26. Do you mean, why is the idle rpm so high? (1150)

Here's another item to add to the display in your logs: CrankingFuelAdj.

 

[awdtsi_90]

Here is the cable that is plugged into the gm maf and going Into the wire harness. This is how I bought the car back so idk what exactly it has. Dsm link was installed from the guy i got the car back from.

The o2 plug in will be here on the 6th. I will grab a temp sensor & gas today & see if I can get a log to post here today. Have Been dealing with bronchial infection with a ear & sinus infection not feeling good so been resting.

Yes the other car dose have the Translator and dose look pretty rough inside . good memory.

 

[awdtsi_90]

I just looked at a pic of the cable and that's not what I have. What would be a better option? Get the speed density bundle instead of a maf translator

 

[We're on Boost]

I just looked at a pic of the cable and that's not what I have.

Yeah, I'll be darned. That's funny, I mean surprising.

What would be a better option? Get the speed density bundle instead of a maf translator

I think speed density would be the way to go rather than trying to get a new or good used translator, especially since the old GM MAF is questionable as to whether it is still in good shape or not.

But that $125 bundle you showed is really for 2g DSM. So don't get that one.

I'm not 100% sure about these bundles but the way I understand it, for 1g DSM plug and play type of installation, you would get the Speed Density Cable for $65 and then you'd still need the MAP sensor and the IAT sensor, and those are available seperately, but it's actually cheaper to buy them in another bundle which comes with some pigtails and a bung that you won't even need. That bundle is the SD Bundle (GM-style MAP, IAT, pigtails and bung) for $115. Actually you might use that bung - it must be for the IAT sensor.

Hopefully somebody will come along who can verify that those are correct bundles for 1g install.
You might even be able to contact ECMtuning to verify it. I don't know how easy they are to contact these days.

Doing this is not exactly a no-brainer. I mean there are a few things to be thinking about as you go into it.
One is that people have been having reliability problems lately with this 4-bar MAP sensor. When they go out, people usually replace them with an AEM stainless steel type MAP sensor which is about twice as expensive.

The other thing is, lack of good quality inputs on the 1g ECU. On a 1g ECU, the Baro input and the IAT (Intake Temp) input are both good, or pretty good, inputs. You'll be using both of those to do this setup for speed density. The input you'll have left over for other use is the EGR Temp input, and that is not a very good input. People do sometimes use it to log their wideband but the accuracy of it is variable, probably depending mostly on what wideband you use. And you do need a wideband for sure to get your car tuned in speed density.

Some people go with logging their wideband on the EGR Temp input. You might need to try some research into what brands of wideband are compatible with our 1g EGR Temp input.

Some people go with replacing the stock type narrow band O2 sensor with a wideband sensor and that way the extra input is not needed, you just log your wideband with the O2 input. I hate that way of doing it because:

1.) It puts the wideband sensor too close to the hot turbine exit. Wideband sensors should be further downstream, about 18 to 24 inches downstream from the turbo. Should be in the downpipe.

2.) It means you wouldn't have the stock type O2 sensor to verify that your wideband is accurate. That makes it very hard to help somebody who is trying to dial in a new speed density setup with a new wideband and it's anybody's guess as to whether the wideband is accurate or not. You really should have both, the regular O2 sensor and a wideband, so they can verify each other. If they both are saying you have stoic at conditions where you know it should be stoich, you can be pretty sure that both sensors are working ok.

Another way of dealing with lack of good inputs, and this is how I'm doing it, is to not even use an IAT sensor in your speed density. Do it just with a MAP sensor. The IAT is not totally necessary. It accounts for a very small fraction of your total fuel calculation. You can use coolant temperature to give you a pretty good approximate. There's a table for that. If you do it that way, you'd do your high power final tuning in summer conditions. And in the winter you'd be a little off maybe but you can keep an eye on it with the wideband and chances are the coolant temp feature will be good enough. You'd think it would be awful for cold starts on freezing days, but take a look at your Cranking Fuel Adjust numbers once you get them going. They are big numbers. They are way bigger than any correction you'd get from an IAT sensor. So in cold starts you have help from CrankingFuelAdj and from the coolant temp feature. The CrankingFuelAdj stays in for about 17 seconds after the cold start. After that you still have the coolant temp adjust, which continually adjusts for coolant temp. On my car that works just fine. I'm in a mild climate. You in KS, climate is much more extreme but I still think it's a valid way to go if you wanted to preserve the IAT input for use with the wideband.

 

[awdtsi_90]

If I got the speed density cable kit that u sent a link for, the bronze peice is the sensor for the air intake temp right. Then the black box is the map, and then I would plug that cable I to the pig trail I have now, correct? I don't have to splice any wires or anything, do i ?

Wasn't able to get the temp sensor switched over and started for a log. was busy and will attempt to get one tomorrow.

BTW. When I get this o2 plug in. dose it matter where I put the wires Into the new plug? Do I just attach the 4 wires to any or is there a specific wire for each one?

 

[19Eclipse90]

The 1990 Engine Control Working Harness: B-26 Oxygen Sensor

 

[awdtsi_90]

so red to red. white to white. then one black to black and the yellow to the other black. If one is thicker than the other I will match it up with the thick black.

Also I can get a 1g stock maf for $60. Would that be a better option to get the car up and running good?

That is why I get the dtc error 0012 because the car isn't reading a maf at all is it?

 

[We're on Boost]

If I got the speed density cable kit that u sent a link for, the bronze peice is the sensor for the air intake temp right. Then the black box is the map,

Yes. The MAP you'd want to mount to the body preferably rather than on the engine. The firewall if there is room. Then you'd run a hose to it for boost and vacuum, same as the air hose that goes to the stock fuel pressure regulator as I remember that.

and then I would plug that cable I to the pig trail I have now, correct?

No, the cable you have now that you showed in post #31 you wouldn't use for anything. You'd plug the MAP and IAT sensors into the Speed Density Cable.

I don't have to splice any wires or anything, do i ?

I think that's right. It should be just plug it in, all 3 legs of that Speed Density Cable.

Also I can get a 1g stock maf for $60. Would that be a better option to get the car up and running good?

Well, you'd still need the "snorkel" pipe that takes air from the stock MAF to the turbo inlet. Those snorkels were made of rubber and most of them are in bad shape now. There were probably aftermarket pipes (metal) made for that purpose if you could find one, or maybe the guy selling the MAF has all that stuff. It would be easier. You wouldn't have to do much of any tuning really unless you put in injectors bigger than stock. I still have my original stock 1990 MAF all clean and nice in a box, and a nice clean K&N air filter on it. It could be available if you wanted it. But I don't think I have the pipe to the turbo for it.

That is why I get the dtc error 0012 because the car isn't reading a maf at all is it?

I think so, yes.


One question - are you sure you don't have a Translator hiding somewhere in the cabin?
What makes me think of it is that cable you showed in post #31. It would make sense if the guy who put that in used it to attach the GM MAF to the stock MAF wires which already go through the firewall! Then in the cabin, he would have cut the stock MAF wires near where the ECU is and wired them up to the translator, and wired the translator to the ecu. He would probably have put the Translator somewhere under the radio, just over the "transmission" tunnel. That's where I put my Power Transistor. It's a handy spot. Or somewhere else in that area. At one time I had my ECU+ in there. Here's a picture of my car showing how I put the Power Transistor in there. It's the little thing that is orange or brown on the end facing the camera, and it has 4 yellow wires and 1 blue wire going into it:

 

[awdtsi_90]

So the speed density wouldn't be to hard to do then it seems like. I was thinking it would be difficult so glad it isnt. I did send you a pm about the maf also, as i think it would help get the car running quicker and easier for me to sortthings out with it. I will look more to see if i have a maf translator somewhere in the car & I messaged the guy also & asked him if he put one somewhere.

I am sure I could find a place to mount the map on the body somewhere for speed density.

I do have a metal pipe going from turbo, which I believe I had on the car when I sold it to him using the stock maf. I am not 100% because it has been 10 years ago.

 

[awdtsi_90]

reached out to him and he said he has the cable and this is what he sent. I don't think that will work because here is what the plug in looks like on the 1g harness . The smaller clip will go to the gm maf but the bigger clip dosnt look like it's for the 1g. Idk tho. we will see once I get the cable

 

[We're on Boost]

reached out to him and he said he has the cable and this is what he sent. I don't think that will work because here is what the plug in looks like on the 1g harness . The smaller clip will go to the gm maf but the bigger clip dosnt look like it's for the 1g. Idk tho.

Yeah the bigger plug on that harness looks like it would be for a 2g DSM.
It does look like a genuine ECMtuning GM MAF cable though. The wire with the generic ring terminal is a ground wire, and the 2 wires that don't go anywhere (are just capped off on the ends) are there so you can use them for some other purpose on not use them at all, they are not needed by the GM MAF. That was one good thing about the GM MAF. It doesn't need 2 of the ecu inputs that are needed by the stock MAF. So you have those 2 inputs on the ECU available for other things.

I had to look for pictures of 2g MAF plug because I've never really looked at one. So I googled "2g DSM MAF plug" and got a lot of interesting results showing various adapter cables that people offer. Don't know if any of that stuff might help. I'm going to look at this stuff more later tonight. Gotta gear up to take the beast for a drive this afternoon, and probably a mountain bike ride too. 75 degrees F here right now and beautiful!

 

[awdtsi_90]

I am jealous . You should do a walk around video with it running and a drive video sometime. I think that could be a cool thread of everyone posting videos like that.

If I do get that ecm cable wouldnt this work? An adapter from a 2g to 1 g that goes from the ecm cable to my harness plug?

 

[We're on Boost]

If I do get that ecm cable wouldnt this work? An adapter from a 2g to 1 g that goes from the ecm cable to my harness plug?

I think it would do that! It looks like it would be the right plugs gender to gender and so forth.
I don't know if the ECMtuning GM MAF cable for 2g had any different electronics in it than the cable for 1g GM MAF. Know what I mean? My understanding of the cable is, it isn't just connectors and wires. It actually has some electronics in it somewhere. The idea was that they couldn't apparently get all the translation electronics into their chip in the ecu, so they put some of it in the cable. I don't know where in the cable. I don't see it anywhere. Maybe inside the plug?
Anyway what I'm saying is it would be nice if you could get an answer from ECMtuning, if this would work. Looks like the plugs would be correct. But I don't know about the electronics that are in the cable.

 

[We're on Boost]

I just looked in the ? help in ECMlink for the page that you get like this -
View, ECU Config, MAF Comp, question mark (brings up the Help page)

The paragraphs that mention the GM MAF and cable in there are weird, not what I thought.
I've never used the GM MAF cable so I don't know really what to make of this but it sounds like a whole new quagmire to me. Here's a screen shot of the text. I wanted to copy and paste it in here but they won't let you copy from the help in that software!!! Copy just doesn't work in there.
Then they are ambiguous about what "straight to the ecu" means. First they say "straight to the ecu". Then in the next mention they say "straight to the ecu using our GM MAF cable". To me those aren't the same thing, but I think they mean for both to mean "using our GM MAF cable". And that Note paragraph. Yeesh.

 

[awdtsi_90]

ya so it either needs the cable or a maf translator. I sent them a email asking about using the 2g ecm gm maf cable with a adapter going from the 2g to 1g connection. Hoping to hear from guy about the cable.

I am passed ready to get this running good to move onto something else with getting it driveable daily.

 

[TuskeeTuner]

I'm doing something similar right now with my 92 Laser.
I had to repair the engine harness under the hood:
-repaired/replaced all 4 fuel injector connectors
-replaced the camshaft pos sensor connector/pigtail
-repaired or replaced the O2 sensor connector (can't remember what I did to the shielded portion of the wire)
-car came with a 2G MAF connector; repaired it and installed ECM Tuning's speed density harness
-new AIT sensor
-repaired the closed throttle switch wiring
-repaired starter wiring
-changed an ECU plug and re-terminated several wires
-repaired and replaced MPI connector and wiring
-rewired the fuel pump correctly

I have probably 10 pages worth of hand written notes and several wiring diagrams worth of stuff I've fixed or currently looking into. I'm going to WATCH this thread because of We're on Boost's knowledge of ECM Link and because you're trying to revive a DSM, awdtsi_90.

ya so it either needs the cable or a maf translator. I sent them a email asking about using the 2g ecm gm maf cable with a adapter going from the 2g to 1g connection. Hoping to hear from guy about the cable.

I am passed ready to get this running good to move onto something else with getting it driveable daily.

I vote that you figure out the easiest way to get the car to idle, to drive around the block or down the street and back, and start reliably.

 

[We're on Boost]

I'm doing something similar right now with my 92 Laser.
I had to repair the engine harness under the hood:
-repaired/replaced all 4 fuel injector connectors
-replaced the camshaft pos sensor connector/pigtail
-repaired or replaced the O2 sensor connector (can't remember what I did to the shielded portion of the wire)
-car came with a 2G MAF connector; repaired it and installed ECM Tuning's speed density harness
-new AIT sensor
-repaired the closed throttle switch wiring
-repaired starter wiring
-changed an ECU plug and re-terminated several wires
-repaired and replaced MPI connector and wiring
-rewired the fuel pump correctly

I have probably 10 pages worth of hand written notes and several wiring diagrams worth of stuff I've fixed or currently looking into. I'm going to WATCH this thread because of We're on Boost's knowledge of ECM Link and because you're trying to revive a DSM, awdtsi_90.

Sounds like a whole lot of wiring going on there. It figures though. Those things get mangled or even just ratty from age and weathering.

Wiring and Everett, Washington.
When I put those 2 things together I always remember the Wiring Group at Boeing in Everett in one of the two big Engineering buildings there, I forget which one. I worked near them, and they liked our old Lofting table. They liked to work with huge long drawings, made with CAD and printed out on one of the big printers that use a 3 or 4 foot wide paper roll.
Anyway, I asked them one day how wiring connections and terminations are made in our (Boeing) airplanes. If it was crimp or solder. They said crimp. So I thought that was interesting.

BTW I'm not much of an expert with ECMLink! Because English Racing set it up and tuned it for me. You know, in Camas Washington. They did a nice job. I'm mostly just a user of it, and I'm gradually getting more knowledgeable about it and try to keep notes and bookmarks to things so I can look them up again for a memory refresh!

 

[TuskeeTuner]

Sounds like a whole lot of wiring going on there. It figures though. Those things get mangled or even just ratty from age and weathering.

Wiring and Everett, Washington.
When I put those 2 things together I always remember the Wiring Group at Boeing in Everett in one of the two big Engineering buildings there, I forget which one. I worked near them, and they liked our old Lofting table. They liked to work with huge long drawings, made with CAD and printed out on one of the big printers that use a 3 or 4 foot wide paper roll.
Anyway, I asked them one day how wiring connections and terminations are made in our (Boeing) airplanes. If it was crimp or solder. They said crimp. So I thought that was interesting.

BTW I'm not much of an expert with ECMLink! Because English Racing set it up and tuned it for me. You know, in Camas Washington. They did a nice job. I'm mostly just a user of it, and I'm gradually getting more knowledgeable about it and try to keep notes and bookmarks to things so I can look them up again for a memory refresh!

I do work for Boeing; aviation career started out in the Navy. I deployed right after 9-11-01 many years ago...but yeah, most of the wiring is good now. Once I can get the car started, I'm sure I'll find more "issues."
I've done a combination of crimps and solder joints. Hopefully they don't crack over time.
Still interested in awdtsi_90's progress.

 

[awdtsi_90]

Thank you very much and this is a learning experience . It feels amazing to be where I am at already with it. I feel like I am not to far away from it being there. We're on boost has helped me out drastically with this!!! Thank you again and tuskee I appreciate you finding this interesting. I am eventually gping to be daily driving it. I can't wait for that. I already have a list of things to do once I get it driving tho. Get the rear hatch toopen and get thr windows to work. Little by little and we will get there!

 

[We're on Boost]

I do work for Boeing; aviation career started out in the Navy. I deployed right after 9-11-01 many years ago

Oh man, did you do some combat flying then?

 

[TuskeeTuner]

Oh man, did you do some combat flying then?

No. I worked on F-14s...lived on two aircraft carriers for 13 months.