My new setup, what do you think? 11 sec GST

[Jaraxle]

You need to address cooling. That FMIC isn't going to help much in that department. At a minimum I would wire both fans together (which I've only done with FAL fans so not sure if the stock ones would blow fuses), and get an air/oil cooler for the drivers side air intake (which you still have the block-off in). Maybe you won't have such a problem doing 1/4 racing, but you'd be surprised in the summer how hot things can get ! As it stands now, your going to throw a LOT of heat into the oil from the turbo, and the radiators job is to rid that heat, which it's ability has been diminished with the FMIC. 300-400hp of heat is NOT the same as 210hp.

-Jaraxle

 

[daren_p]

here is a diagram. hope this helps. What you want to do is splice in with a T into the BOV source from the intake manifold and run that to the MBC then connect the MBC to your waste gate actuator. the source goes into the bottom of the controller pointing towards the knob (so it pushes the spring up).

T ing the mbc into the bov isn't the recommend way of connecting it. Preferred method is taking the pressure source of the comp housing, jpipe licp. What you want to do is remove the red hose (or you can use it if you like the pretty colour ) attach the inlet of the mbc to the barbed fitting on the comp cover and attach the mbc outlet to your wg actuator. This will give you the quickest boost response, you will be less likely to get boost spikes, you won't be working the turbo as hard as you would if you had it connected to the bov and had a boost leak, etc, etc. You should also change the mounting location of that mbc, the shorter the lines the better.

 

[thumper]

actually i think you might be off on that. If my memory serves me right it's better to connect to the intake manifold. It's more accurate i think. What if there are boost leaks in the system? Going off the intake manifold would negate those leaks and you would see what the engine was about to take in. It's in Corky Bell's Maximum Boost, although it has been awhile since I read the book I think that is what it says.

 

[daren_p]

actually i think you might be off on that. If my memory serves me right it's better to connect to the intake manifold. It's more accurate i think. What if there are boost leaks in the system? Going off the intake manifold would negate those leaks and you would see what the engine was about to take in. It's in Corky Bell's Maximum Boost, although it has been awhile since I read the book I think that is what it says.

That is incorrect. The part where you mentioned about a boost leak, your boost gauge is still connected to the intake mani so it doesn't matter where the bc is connected. If you attach the bc to the mani/ t-d into the bov you will increase the lag time. This can give you poor control and lead to boost spikes. Also if its connected where you suggested & you do have boost leaks you will be working the turbo harder to overcome the leaks, which can kill the turbo much quicker as it could be working out of its effiency range. Also have heard different times that the bov wouldn't function correctly with the bc t'd into it.

 

[pneumo]

All mbc's bleed off a little air, so if you T into the BOV line you will bleed off some pressure and the bov could open at lower pressure. This isn't a problem with adjustable bov's, but stock bov's can be affected.

 

[thumper]

After class I got out the trusty book. You were correct sort of, I was thinking in terms of turbo response not over all. 3 choices exist.

Compressor outlet- least heat, slowest response
After intercooler and before throttle - compromise
After throttle - most heat, best response

You are off in saying that the intake manifold would give you the most lag time.

 

[daren_p]

After class I got out the trusty book. You were correct sort of, I was thinking in terms of turbo response not over all. 3 choices exist.

Compressor outlet- least heat, slowest response
After intercooler and before throttle - compromise
After throttle - most heat, best response

You are off in saying that the intake manifold would give you the most lag time.

I'm not sure how they figure the compressor outlet will give you the slowest response? The compressor is the source of pressure so the closer you are to the compressor the faster the response will be. At the manifold is way down the system & would be the last section to get pressurized, thats why it gives you slower response.

I have had my ebc hooked up to both the comp & t'd into the bov (not t'd into bov by choice, just got a new fmic setup before going into storage & didn't have a tap in the lower ic pipe like the setup I was replaceing). With the source t'd into the licp I would get very small boost spikes, less then 1 psi on initial spool. Without any changes other then the pressure source tapped from the bov, I was seeing like 4 or 5 psi spikes & I couldn't get rid of them even by reducing the ebc gain all the way down.

Not to mention I just didn't like the way the boost was controlled when hooked into the bov. It wasn't near as stable.

 

[thumper]

With the source t'd into the licp I would get very small boost spikes, less then 1 psi on initial spool. Without any changes other then the pressure source tapped from the bov, I was seeing like 4 or 5 psi spikes & I couldn't get rid of them even by reducing the ebc gain all the way down.

Not to mention I just didn't like the way the boost was controlled when hooked into the bov. It wasn't near as stable.

That makes sense if you think about it, least amount of heat you spiked 1 psi.
Most heat, you spiked 4-5 psi. It says that heat should be the governing factor of the choice. If you have the intercooler capability then you could go with the intake source.

 

[Nelsons91AWD]

Phil Drove his GST down to Deyond Redline 1.5 hr drive

with the stock ecu w 880s/ untuned / and didnt even spool the turbo the whole way down.

They already have the Tranny out and they are resurfacing the flywheel, going to install the clutch/LSD


He also had them order DSM link, and let them use his laptop thats why he isnt posting this.

there are a few misc items that they have to order (new battery, silicone coupler, ect...)

They are going to do a DSMlink street tune with a wideband, then they are going to put it on the Dyno in another shop (he dont wanna pay for a dyno tune ($175 Hr)

just doing 3 pulls to see your power is ($75)

The car will be done this friday , fully tuned.

and Sunday we are going to be going to a carshow in Kaukauna.

we are both hoping for 12s this year .


stay tuned

 

[daren_p]

Wow I'm surprised he could even keep the car running dumping that much fuel. Will be interesting to see what kind of power/times he can lay down, keep us posted

 

[PHIZZLE99GST]

Well this past weekend was awesome, watched my buddy (Nelsons91AWD) run a 12.79-that was really exciting-congrats to him! As for myself i only put out a 14.8 on pump-- i know its a top end turbo that i have but i expected better, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gears pulled hard and felt great, but my launch was rather weak. I had the tune for 20 psi, the turbo starts spoolin between 3800 and 4200 but full spool dont come til about 5500. I had the rev limitter set at 4000 but ima move that up this week and see if that makes a difference.

Now when i used the rev limit i popped out the clutch and the rpms dropped down to zero which is what hurt my launch, maybe i was supposed to ease it out instead? my 60 fts were 2.8--, 2.8--, and 2.7-- because of that, and i didnt make any more runs because my dip stick kept popping out so im gettin some new o-rings for that Its gonna take some practice to get the launch down on this new setup

I dynoed at 295hp and was running really hot, so the day after the dyno and day b4 the races i put a 180 degree thermoustat in and got a 70%destilled 30%coolant and a bottle of water wetter put in which helped...

I think once i figure this launch out and have the right tires (since i ran on street radials) that i will see mid 13s at 20psi.

heres one for you guys- after the dyno they drove my car out and i paid- got in my car and drove off i was still in the drive way i did a pull in 2nd and my hood flew up and cracked my windsheild they didnt latch my hood... that im claiming on my ins.

 

[talontsi97]

What was your trap speed?

 

[Nelsons91AWD]

What was your trap speed?

his best trap was 101.5 Mph

 

[PHIZZLE99GST]

Did some maintainance to my car... Nelsons91AWD and I... found boost leaks which caused my turbo to hit full boost late at 5500rpm, but once we fixed em it reaches full boost at 4500 so that will help a lot, and im still workin on my launch. Also did some more cleaning under the hood, wrapping and hiding wires and hoses some more. its coming along nicely. im gettin my IC pipes welded tomorrow-hopefully. I'll keep you's posted on how things come, i plan on running again at the track in late june>

 

[daren_p]

I was going to say check for boost/exhaust leaks with that kind of spool. You are running the 57 dual BB pte turbo correct? Doesn't 4500 still sound a touch on the high side for that turbo to see 20 psi? Have you checked the WG to make sure its fully closed and not opening pre-maturely?

There defently should be a tonn more in that turbo, the launch defently didn't help the time at all, but that mph is very low for that size of turbo. Defently don't just want to pop the clutch. Don't rev it to high or you'll just cause massive wheel spin. Probably hold it around 3500 rpms to start and slowly slip the clutch while applying the gas. Try to feather it to control wheel spin.

 

[Nelsons91AWD]

I was going to say check for boost/exhaust leaks with that kind of spool. You are running the 57 dual BB pte turbo correct? Doesn't 4500 still sound a touch on the high side for that turbo to see 20 psi? Have you checked the WG to make sure its fully closed and not opening pre-maturely?

There defently should be a tonn more in that turbo, the launch defently didn't help the time at all, but that mph is very low for that size of turbo. Defently don't just want to pop the clutch. Don't rev it to high or you'll just cause massive wheel spin. Probably hold it around 3500 rpms to start and slowly slip the clutch while applying the gas. Try to feather it to control wheel spin.

No Darrenp its not a BB turbo ,,, this is the turbo

http://www.slowboyracing.com/more.php?id=2195&

we found a total of 3 boost leaks in his system, cut about 3 feet of vaccum line out of boost controller setup, and made another heat sheild. now we are going to work on getting coolant temps down (any suggestions), making a cold air intake, learning dsmlink, praticing the launch, and do a full retune.

after we fixed the leaks we saw spool start at 3K and full boost at 4.5K

 

[daren_p]

Ahh, non BB turbo, spool sounds more resonable now. They come with an adjustable actuator so have you made sure the actuator is preloaded when its closed? (ie there is some pressure holding the flapper shut). As for getting the coolent temps down, replace any of the shrouding that you had to remove with the fmic install, there is a post on here that people have made a shroud that directs fresh air into the rad & had good results, what antifreeze/water ratio is he running and has water wetter been added? Another thing would be to replace the factory rad with an aftermarket aluminum one.

 

[Nelsons91AWD]

Ahh, non BB turbo, spool sounds more resonable now. They come with an adjustable actuator so have you made sure the actuator is preloaded when its closed? (ie there is some pressure holding the flapper shut). As for getting the coolent temps down, replace any of the shrouding that you had to remove with the fmic install, there is a post on here that people have made a shroud that directs fresh air into the rad & had good results, what antifreeze/water ratio is he running and has water wetter been added? Another thing would be to replace the factory rad with an aftermarket aluminum one.

can you be a little more specific on how to make sure the actuator is preloaded, once we know how to do it, we will check on it right away.

he is doing a 30% anitfreeze 70% distilled and watter wetter/ No shrouds / stock radiator/ aftermarket fans/ 180* thermostat

link to the post??

thanks for the response man

 

[daren_p]

Heres the link to the shroud post:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224201&highlight=lowered

I would atleast replace/fab up some shrouding all the way around the fmic/rad. Air takes the path of least resistance, no shrouding & the air will choose to go around the rad instead of through it.

For the actuator what you want to do is remove the arm and then hold the flapper shut. Look at how the actuator lines up, you should have to pull it towards the drivers side abit to get it to fit on the flapper shaft when its shut (putting tension on the flapper). This makes sure the flapper stays shut, building boost faster. The more tension you put on the flapper the longer it will take to open & it also won't open as far.

 

[Nelsons91AWD]

SORRY FOR NOT UPDATING UNTIL NOW

About 8 months ago one of my best friends PHIZZLE99GST got sent to Iraq and is risking his life everyday. I pray for ya and love ya man.

He has charged me with continuing the project with his car.
Which I gladly accept

Before he left he overheated his car because of that Huge FMIC, now there is also Oil Leaking out of somewhere unknown, I am thinking between the head and the block, but am unsure.

I in TN the car is in MI, but I am going to have it put on a Flatbed and transported to a great DSM shop in Wisconsin. That shop will be doing most of all the work on getting the car, getting it back up and running. I need to manage the budget, pick the parts, and call the shots.

PHIZZLE99GSTs goals remain the same, high 11s low 12s in the ¼ mile (with Racegas/Slicks) HIS CURRENT MODS ARE IN HIS PROFILE

His budget to work with for now is $3500

We don't have to meet his goal with this, but we would like to Keep moving towards it as best we can. Your input would be appreciated here.

HERE ARE MY THOUGHTS
I am thinking the Headgasket is Blown. So this is how I will break it down,

Cometic HG + ARP headstuds = $1200 installed
Koyo Radiator + Good slimline Fans = $500 installed
FP 2 Cams = $450 (maybe + $100 for install)
1G DSM TB = $50
Magnus Intake Manifold = $700 ( maybe + $100 for the install )
$ 3100.00
(i would have them do all this work at once when the Head is ripped off the block, which should save time and money)

Add a Dyno Tune Session
$200

Total: $3300.00

 

[topnotchgsx]

$1200 for a hg and head stud install? I would never pay that much. So I think you will save some money there as I dont think it will cost that much. But I have never payed a shop to do anything for me, so I dont know. I just do it myself.

Everything else you have listed looks like a good start. It will help that turbo breathe a lot better and the top end will be much better.

 

[Nelsons91AWD]

$1200 for a hg and head stud install? I would never pay that much. So I think you will save some money there as I dont think it will cost that much. But I have never payed a shop to do anything for me, so I dont know. I just do it myself.

Everything else you have listed looks like a good start. It will help that turbo breathe a lot better and the top end will be much better.

Yea thats about what i got quoted from the shop last time i asked (bout 1 year ago)

thats with ARP/Cometic/Head Resurfaced/ and Labor...

 

[JOEY A]

SLICKS!


Get some ground control coil overs for drag racing spring rates


FWD GUYS ALWAY over look good sus

 

[Nelsons91AWD]

SLICKS!


Get some ground control coil overs for drag racing spring rates


FWD GUYS ALWAY over look good sus

Hmm this is his Suspension setup

ADR/limited ricochet's gunmetal w/polished lip, 225/45/17's kumho 712's, Quaife LSD, Tokico adjustable shocks and lowering springs, Prothane Motor Mounts


You think Slicks would be the best thing to get next?

 

[daren_p]

Hmm this is his Suspension setup

ADR/limited ricochet's gunmetal w/polished lip, 225/45/17's kumho 712's, Quaife LSD, Tokico adjustable shocks and lowering springs, Prothane Motor Mounts


You think Slicks would be the best thing to get next?

To run 11's in a fwd I too am going to say I think you pretty much need slicks. Its not like awd where you can just make more power to get there. Most of the time this will just net you a quicker mph & the et will stay the same as more power equals more slip. I have only been to the track once last fall & it was very poor traction conditions as even awd cars were coming off the line sideways & these were only 12 second cars. I was running 18's with 40 series tires that defently didn't help as you can't really air them down & to top it off were fairly bald but I was getting mad wheel hope even when feathering the throttle through 1st & 2nd, I wasn't able to get on the throttle at all till third. The car never acts like this on the street so I'm thinking it was just poor conditions but I will now for sure in the near future when I go to the track with the new setup & new tires but I still don't think I'll pull super impressive et's though I probably will clip off some good mphs. It was netting me 106+ mph traps but only high 13's because of the traction issue.

As far as you list goes it looks pretty good to me, that will defently help to open up flow in the top end. Just make sure to get both the head & block resurfaced to the proper smoothness (believe its RA scale) to seal that metal HG properly. If your not planning on running more the 25 psi, I'd probably just run a stock with the ARP's. This combo seems to hold up pretty well as long as you have a descent tune. I know others have even pushed it further.