My Custom Catch Can/PCV Setup

[slowgsr]

Everyone knows DSM's suck for crankcase venting from factory... and lots suffer from blowing out the dipstick and making a oil mess and possible fire hazard. Here is my solution..

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I removed the baffling from the Valvecover, used two -10 fittings, the can is a fair size.. and than it has to two vents on the top. I also use a -8 drainback to the pan.

I also mounted my battery it so its out of the way, it fits nicely and I can still get to it no problem to boost it if i ever have too. Plus no disconnect needed since its still under the hood.

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[awdrst]

Looks really good. I had my battery in the same spot with a very similar setup.

 

[chico904]

I could not tell by the pic, did you delete the PVC system completely?

 

[DWR-DSM]

Looks good and I know first hand about that fire hazard.

 

[Flash]

What's with the exhaust heat wrap on the intercooler pipes?

 

[lacroixdp]

I'd just keep in mind that your oil is going to become contaminated quite a bit faster with a setup like that. I'd get an oil analysis on your next oil change and see how much your contaminates raise personally.

 

[Highbooost]

Wouldn't removing the baffling completely spit an even larger amount of oil into the catch can and out those two breathers?

Later Dr Turbo

 

[bpestilence]

Looks to me like there is no vacuum involved in this system. So basically it is just a vent. For maximum performance (and minimum emmissions) There should be 5" H2O vacuum in the crankcase. At best you will have 0.

Here is a pic of my system:

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Notice that I still use the vacuum port on the intake manifold. I just use 2 PCV valves (for more flow at the same vacuum) and ran a simple catch can.

 

[lacroixdp]

Looks to me like there is no vacuum involved in this system. So basically it is just a vent. For maximum performance (and minimum emmissions) There should be 5" H2O vacuum in the crankcase. At best you will have 0.

Here is a pic of my system:

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Notice that I still use the vacuum port on the intake manifold. I just use 2 PCV valves (for more flow at the same vacuum) and ran a simple catch can.

This isn't the best layout either, IMHO. The PCV valve not only keeps boost from going into the crankcase, it's also a metering orifice. By doubling the vacuum in the crankcase, you'll increase your potential for burning oil.

 

[slowgsr]

Ill try to clear some things up.

I removed the baffling in the valvecover, however no oil will come out of the breather filters, I have a -8an drainback, so any oil that gets collected will drain back.

I change my oil every 2000km at the very most, this is not a daily driver.

You do not need vacuum assistance with venting, on a FI motor the pressure will relieve itself. This is NOT emissions friendly, emissions friendly are closed loop systems that use pre-turbo vacuum assistance. Open loop systems are the only way to prevent all oil vapors (which lower octane) from getting burned.

I will be very happy with even 0-1PSI of positive pressure in the crankcase at high power levels. There is no problem with drainback systems.

I COULD not use the stock ports on the valve cover, there just too small and do not provide enough venting, that's why i went with two -10 ports. They just don't relieve the pressure fast enough on high power cars running lots of boost.

As for the heatwrap, I just like the way it looks.

 

[lacroixdp]

Gotcha - as long as you're not using it in a daily driver you should be good. I'd still get an oil analysis on your first change to make sure you're not getting excessive fuel in your oil.

Ill try to clear some things up.

I removed the baffling in the valvecover, however no oil will come out of the breather filters, I have a -8an drainback, so any oil that gets collected will drain back.

I change my oil every 2000km at the very most, this is not a daily driver.

You do not need vacuum assistance with venting, on a FI motor the pressure will relieve itself. This is NOT emissions friendly, emissions friendly are closed loop systems that use pre-turbo vacuum assistance. Open loop systems are the only way to prevent all oil vapors (which lower octane) from getting burned.

I will be very happy with even 0-1PSI of positive pressure in the crankcase at high power levels. There is no problem with drainback systems.

I COULD not use the stock ports on the valve cover, there just too small and do not provide enough venting, that's why i went with two -10 ports. They just don't relieve the pressure fast enough on high power cars running lots of boost.

As for the heatwrap, I just like the way it looks.

 

[Highbooost]

Ill try to clear some things up.

I removed the baffling in the valvecover, however no oil will come out of the breather filters, I have a -8an drainback, so any oil that gets collected will drain back.

Yea it spits oil out at WOT, not neccesarilly because the canister is full. With out any baffling you will be getting lots of oil passing through your catch can just increasing the chances of oil being thrown out the breathers.

Just to let others know the intake pipe pulls anywhere from 0-1 hg at high amounts of boost. I have tested it, so using it as a source to pull out crankcase fumes is basically useless, except you still have the positive crank case pressure that will push oil into your beatiful turbo, FMIC, spit it out the bov, gum up the intake valves, etc etc.

The correct way is to the plumb the system with a vacuum pump with a catch can inline. If you are not going to do that just route a few -8s to a catch can to atmosphere if you don't want to buy a very exspensive vacuum pump setup. Cost for good ones I have seen go for around $700 and I am talking about vacuum pumps made for this exact purpose not buying a vacuum pump that is made for loopy cams V8s with poor idle.

Later Dr Turbo

 

[slowgsr]

The correct way is to the plumb the system with a vacuum pump with a catch can inline. If you are not going to do that just route a few -8s to a catch can to atmosphere if you don't want to buy a very exspensive vacuum pump setup. Cost for good ones I have seen go for around $700 and I am talking about vacuum pumps made for this exact purpose not buying a vacuum pump that is made for loopy cams V8s with poor idle.

Later Dr Turbo

Your 100% right that is the correct way, not the only correct way. Tony1 from T1 runs 8's in his integra on gasoline/unibody H shift pattern, makes over 900whp and runs no vac pump just atmospheric venting and has a setup similar to mine (but has 4 -12's), and has no problems, he has roughly 0.3psi in the crankcase at 45+psi and 9500rpm on a S372R. I copied his style and rough design. However x2 -10 is enough for my setup. Im just making a point its very correct without a vac pump.

 

[bpestilence]

This isn't the best layout either, IMHO. The PCV valve not only keeps boost from going into the crankcase, it's also a metering orifice. By doubling the vacuum in the crankcase, you'll increase your potential for burning oil.

A PCV valve is a vacuum control device. It controls pressure, not flow rate. The spring in the PCV valve will allow the valve to close completely if you pull about 5"H2O vacuum on it, and it will prevent flow from going the other way entirely.

Because it closes at a certain pressure, you could have 1000 of them in parallel and the vacuum across them would be the same; only the maximum flow rate would have changed. In other words, it is like a capacitor, not a resistor.

I agree that the setup in the original post is a good one for a race car. Not ideal for a street car that spends most of its life in vacuum, but great for a car that spends most of its time in boost and gets frequent rebuilds.

 

[MidShipCivic]

Pressure relief very beneficial for our engine making absurd power on just 4 cylinders.

 

[UofACATS]

Can I hear more about the custom fabrication part? I.e., how did you arrive at this? It looks pretty clean

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[Highbooost]

Your 100% right that is the correct way, not the only correct way. Tony1 from T1 runs 8's in his integra on gasoline/unibody H shift pattern, makes over 900whp and runs no vac pump just atmospheric venting and has a setup similar to mine (but has 4 -12's), and has no problems, he has roughly 0.3psi in the crankcase at 45+psi and 9500rpm on a S372R. I copied his style and rough design. However x2 -10 is enough for my setup. Im just making a point its very correct without a vac pump.

Sure you don't have to do it to make power that was kinda my point, Shep doesn't run a vacuum pump either. The vacuum pump can increase HP if done however it is NOT necessary and just normal venting works fine from the stock guy to full race, good luck with the project.

Later Dr Turbo

 

[MidShipCivic]

Vacuum pumps are beneficial only when you're using low tension piston rings.

 

[RipperXX]

IMHO the ONLY and the correct way for street use is to use a dual catch can system. As the crank case cent and PCV. Can not function the way they were intended when tied together.




The factory configuration allows venting when your on boost or curse. Most modified setups I see do not allow for this.

 

[AndrewD5418]

IMHO the ONLY and the correct way for street use is to use a dual catch can system. As the crank case cent and PCV. Can not function the way they were intended when tied together.




The factory configuration allows venting when your on boost or curse. Most modified setups I see do not allow for this.

So how would you rout this with the dual catch cans? Don't you run an inline check valve?

 

[Highbooost]

Vacuum pumps are beneficial only when you're using low tension piston rings.

Dude, don't give every HP secret away Good point alas.

Later Dr T

 

[habitatguy187]

Gotcha - as long as you're not using it in a daily driver you should be good. I'd still get an oil analysis on your first change to make sure you're not getting excessive fuel in your oil.

Sorry for the noob question but how does fuel get into the oil in the first place? In theory shouldn't it only happen in boost?

I ask because I'm currently running with my pvc hose running to the bottom of the engine, and intake manifold basically capped off because I kept blowing oil caps (annoying to clean up in spark plug wells) and my dipstick, and yes this is my daily.

 

[lacroixdp]

Sorry for the noob question but how does fuel get into the oil in the first place? In theory shouldn't it only happen in boost?

You get blowby under any running conditions in your engine - boost or normal driving. A large quantity of these gasses are hydrocarbons that condensate and collect in your oil. The whole purpose behind a PVC system is to introduce fresh air into your crankcase and burn away excess hydrocarbons so they don't contaminate your oil (many of them are also corrosive to internal components). That is why it is very important that your PVC system is hooked up properly - your oil will break down faster with a malfunctioning or improperly setup PVC system.

 

[bboyalan]

Why not use a Krank Vents kit/system with a single or dual oil catch can setup? That is what I have been successfully using.

 

[RipperXX]

The dual catch can setup that allows the system to you work correctly is not complicated. Simply run a line from you PCV to the first catch can then the IM, and run a line from the valve covers (correctly called rocker arm cover) vent to the 2nd catch can, and from the catch can to the intake pipe.


The reason this is the CORRECT way to do it is well, there are instances / conditions while driving cause air to be sucked into the valve cover though that vent line, which in the stock configuration WOULD be measured. That air along with fumes from inside the engine then travel though the PCV and into the intake manifold, from there into the engine to be burned. This reduces emissions from the engine.


The systems were setup to work this way. Also that way there is vacuum when and where it should be and a proper way to vent it at all times. We as "tuners" change this because we don't like it getting our IM dirty. But by simply adding good catch cans into the loop we can keep a lot of that out. ANOTHER reason this is the right way to do it. Well you know how some of you guys with DSMLink notice your gm/rev airflow numbers are low. Well it is theorized that this is why. The unmetered air is getting into the engine. So instead of it being around 0.21 like you would normally expect it's some where around .15-.17 Ask me how I know


And yet another theory / reason is the slightly increased vacuum under some conditions vs pressurizing the valve cover is it makes it easier to pump the oil up to the head.