MAX boost on stock injectors

[winkdogydog101]

ok i did search so dont ask me that they didnt have the mods im getting and it just seemed like so many variables i wanted to do my own.

My mods will be and are

16g big
pace turbo manifold
BFMI 3inch inlet and outlet going to a 2g tb adapter
255 2g fuel pump going to rewire
comitic head gasket
arp head studs
manual boost controller
blanace shaft delete
2.5 dp for inlet and 3 inch outlet
stright pipe
AND everything newish flushed rad new timing belt water pump and a tone of other things to basicly make it a 100k service upkeep



want to know on this set up whats max boost i can run? was going to get 1000-1400cc injectors for E85 and a dsm link but i ran out of money for this project for the month.

Need to know whats max boost want it to be safe since im putting good parts in. and i want to know a ballpark of whp i would be at with boost

was thinking like 16psi?

 

[chris7156]

Without any logging software or tunning programs i would personally leave it at wastegate pressure until you get something to log. That would be the safest thing to do. I know mine was a crappy ebay 16g and the wastegate was adjusted all the way to 16 and i would hit fuel cut with my stock injectors so i adjusted it back to 11psi. So i hit fuel cut at 16 but thats jsut me, different cars react differently.

 

[LiquidX]

I would keep it at wastegate pressure on the 16g personally so no use for a MBC being hooked up right now. On the t25 you could put it up to 15psi but the t25 and 16g blow different CFMs.

For your hp question, that's called bench racing and that's not allowed on here. If you want to know what you will be making, goto a dyno

You can judge what you may be around by looking at the dyno challenge tab and match up turbos and setups with the corresponding psi you are going to be running.

 

[stevetalon]

You should at the least buy a logger before upping the boost.
My friend was able to boost 30psi with an evo 3 16g on his stock injectors with a walbro 255, Adjustable fuel pressure regulator at 43.5psi base, and one of the honeycombs removed out of his 1g maf. I don't condone doing this but it worked for him.

 

[90on35psi]

I don't think much more than 15psi would be smart without being able to datalog, otherwise you won't know if it knocks. DSMLink FTW!

 

[Achelea]

To be honest, with those parts, you're not likely to last too long.

You can spend a LOT less and get more out of it if you follow the upgrade list.


But Hell, what do I know? I'm just an Aircraft Mechanic.

 

[winkdogydog101]

Achelea just wondering what your upgrades would be

also would a SAFC II work? im looking into getting one and if i did can i manage E85 on it?

really just wondering what other mods what should i need in order to start looking to hit 400-450 whp

o also as for bench racing i dont have a awd dyno in tucson they only have them in az and i honestly can see myself towing the car down there for it just wanted to get a ballpark

 

[EclipticalGS]

You should at the least buy a logger before upping the boost.
My friend was able to boost 30psi with an evo 3 16g on his stock injectors with a walbro 255, Adjustable fuel pressure regulator at 43.5psi base, and one of the honeycombs removed out of his 1g maf. I don't condone doing this but it worked for him.

not on stock injectors. No way.

 

[Achelea]

Achelea just wondering what your upgrades would be
also would a SAFC II work? im looking into getting one and if i did can i manage E85 on it?
really just wondering what other mods what should i need in order to start looking to hit 400-450 whp o also as for bench racing i dont have a awd dyno in tucson they only have them in az and i honestly can see myself towing the car down there for it just wanted to get a ballpark

Simple, Catch up on Maintenance, Repairs, and Supporting mods. Besides, I would start from the wheels and work my way in and actually take the car to the track to learn how to drive.

Wheels and Tires, brake upgrade, suspension, then drivetrain upgrades before I replace any motor component to bump horsepower.

I don't care WHO you are, A great driver with 250 stock HP and great tires is going to leave a kid with 400 in the dust around a track. If you don't believe me, get on any racing game and build two DSMs, one with about 400 hp. Write down how much you spent and then go build up the other car spending the same amount and compare lap times on several tracks. (Ovals are only partially applicable)

The best way to improve lap times is to tighten the nut behind the wheel.

Not to mention that with your mods, you're going to be rebuilding/replacing your trans, axles, and such, as well as cooking your clutch.

You asked, that's what I would do, and that IS what I'm doing.

 

[Jimmer307]

First I would do your preventative maintnance, like you have listed. Then I would follow the tech article about how to achieve your desired horsepower. Just follow the Tech Upgrade paths and you can't go wrong. As for your max boost, I would say WG ~ 12-14lbs

BTW: SAFC is not all that great for E85 because with SAFC you cannot adjust timing at all. In order to reap full benefits of E85, I would get DSMLink whenever you have the money.

 

[Chaosweaver]

You should at the least buy a logger before upping the boost.
My friend was able to boost 30psi with an evo 3 16g on his stock injectors with a walbro 255, Adjustable fuel pressure regulator at 43.5psi base, and one of the honeycombs removed out of his 1g maf. I don't condone doing this but it worked for him.

The friend that told you that was simply lying, I pushed 20 PSI with stock injectors and was extremely lucky I didn't leave parts on the road. Even with a FPR, the 450 injector wont be able to keep up.

not on stock injectors. No way.

What I was thinking.

Achelea just wondering what your upgrades would be

also would a SAFC II work? im looking into getting one and if i did can i manage E85 on it?

really just wondering what other mods what should i need in order to start looking to hit 400-450 whp

o also as for bench racing i dont have a awd dyno in tucson they only have them in az and i honestly can see myself towing the car down there for it just wanted to get a ballpark

It does work, but I wouldn't try it with E85. There's a knock sensor on the SAFC 2 but I wouldn't count on that at all, get a logger with the SAFC and go from there. Its useful in many ways, specially if you are just getting into tuning, it will show you the basics of it, ect. I personally have an SAFC on the Talon, it works well since its only for my daily driver and my goals are for 400HP at most. If you're looking for more options and building for higher HP gains get DSMlink later on, but for now it will do. There are a lot of DSMers running 11s and some even 10s using an SAFC and a logger, so don't let anyone discourage you from getting it if its the only thing you can afford.

As for the max boost on stock injectors, keep it at 15-16PSI to be safe. For your next upgrade I would look into 680-720 injectors, those will give you room to mod and should be more than enough for your goals with the popper tuning.

 

[winkdogydog101]

thanks i was assuming you where gunna be an ass about what i asked you. Well not to toot my own horn but i ran a 14.6 at 98 in 95+degrees and 5000 above sealevel in a stock cobalt ss/sc which was said to run 14.5 i think im pretty spot on. Ive spent tons of time at the drag strip i do agree it will take a few passes to get the shifting and lanuch right.

but im looking at power to get me there first

also from what my friends down here are saying running 25lbs on i bleive 880cc on e85 is over its duty cycle so i was thinking 1000cc but i was wondering not that a care a ton about streetability since this is going to be a 80% track car. but will 1000cc be hard for just normal driving i still wanna be able to be on the road.

also looking to ruin driveablility with soild mounts all over anyone know how bad they are on this car i know it will save the axels for a good bit

 

[HareyCarey]

15psi is a typical number thrown out there when this question comes up so that's what I'd go with(or just stick your line to the wastegate.) I don't know squat about tuning, so no opinion here. But, it sounds like you are up to a good start.

 

[LiquidX]

If you want say 500hp and use E85 then you NEED at least 1250cc injectors if not bigger. It takes more fuel using E85 than it does with gas. You WILL need either ECMLink, AEM or a 98/99 flashable ECU.

To get an idea of what you would need to hit that mark look here.
DSM Dyno Challenge - Highest Horsepower&perpage=25&page=2

You need to plan ahead for what your goals are and follow the upgrade path.
Tech Guide: 2G 4G63t Upgrades - DSMtuners

Solid mounts will just transfer all the vibrations throughout the car instead of being absorbed or turned into twisting energy at the motor itself. Most people are fine using polyurethane mounts as aluminum mounts are more for track, but either way you go, it'll be vibrating more than the stock mounts.

 

[EclipticalGS]

its not twice as much, more like roughly 20% with a conservative tune, and even less with a fine tune.
My cousins mustang Corn-fed is tuned very lean at idle, cruise, and wot because of how octane rich e85 is (105), he can also run very advanced timing without detonation. His mustang gets 10% worse gas mileage since his swap from 93 to eth., Thats nowhere near 50%

 

[90tsiawdturbo]

If your even able to run over 15psi boost on stock injectors your bound to decrease the chances of your injectors working at optimum performance I would go with 660 cc injectors for daily driving

 

[FLASH1970]

I think 3" piping is too big for a 16g. It'll just create more lag. A 255 fuel pump will over run the stock fuel pressure regulator so you'll need an aftermarket adjustable one. An SAFC is not a good idea to use tuning e85. There's a lot of timing changes to be made when tuning for e85. The SAFC is good to about 680cc injectors. That'll get you to 300-350whp depending on other mods. To get 400-450hp you'll need a lot more than a 16g turbo.

If your engine is running well, then pretty much the 16g big, BFMI 3inch inlet and outlet, 255 2g fuel pump going to rewire, comitic head gasket, arp head studs, and manual boost controller is a waste without gauges, tuning/ datalogging, and a complete fuel system upgrade. Do those things first and get used to datalogging and tuning. Then get the boost controller and play with that a little bit. Take the 14b to it's limits and then upgrade the turbo and intercooler.

 

[winkdogydog101]

yes im pretty well covered in e85 and no in most cars the fuel needs to be increase 30% depending on the timing advancement also on that not just cause there is no det or knock doesnt mean the engine will hold. There well be 0 det and knock with e85 for the most part but advancing timing to much will not only hurt the motor but can get you less hp.

just a not ive decided to get my ecu chipped and fine tune with a safc? unless you guys dont think it will work well all this shop does is dsms too just to add and evos

yes im pretty well covered in e85 and no in most cars the fuel needs to be increase 30% depending on the timing advancement also on that not just cause there is no det or knock doesnt mean the engine will hold. There well be 0 det and knock with e85 for the most part but advancing timing to much will not only hurt the motor but can get you less hp.

just a not ive decided to get my ecu chipped and fine tune with a safc? unless you guys dont think it will work well all this shop does is dsms too just to add and evos

 

[macks96boltdsm]

yeah i hit fuel cut at 16 ish 17 with stock injectors and a 255 on stock fpr so i keep it around 14 wouldnt go up any higher than that

 

[jed344]

im running a 14b witch flows a bit less then a 16g but i am pushing 18psi on stock injectors wot a/f is set in at 11.1 and IDC hits hair under 90% before redline so i have them maxed out. But i have a wideband and ecm link to log with without those 2 i wouldnt go above 15psi.

 

[macks96boltdsm]

yeah so what i thought was fuel cut was actually jsut a misfire put new plugs n and she is fine afr when in the 11's so i knew it couldnt be fuel cut no im gonna see if i can hold 17 or 18 and yes i got a wideband

 

[GSLENK]

your gonna need bigger injectors. 650 to be safe at least. Link told me I was running ~98% +/- 2% Injector Duty Cycle at around 12 psi as per omni 4 bar MAP sensor. Needless to say, I ran wastegate psi until I upgraded injectors. This may be a bit extreme, but it does happen.

I havent 100% smoothed my VE tables, and I do smell a lil sulfuric (rich) at times, but My wbo2 indicates Im not far off and I dont have time to mess around right now. Id rather stay a bit rich, then go lean and not have time to fix it. I would imagine with a proper tune, you could get around 14psi safely. I would stop there.

 

[snowborder714]

Gotta love checking the date stamps before posting.

 

[chadjoe]

30 psi on a 16g hahahahahahaha

 

[ctnedzelski]

i got stock injectors, 255 fuel pump....nd 16g Turbo and im tuning with dsmlink........at 19psi.....
my injectors peaked at 89.6% duty cycle.....

so wouldnt do any more than that