Max boost on stock internals

[nightspeed87]

what is the most some of you guys
have safely boosted on your dsms, ( of course considering you have supporting
fuel, and exhaust, and mls gasket mods )

Say you have the max amount of flow and fuel and etc.
what is the top amount one would think a 2.0 dsm engine can handle on a stock
bottom end, I kno the tech guide mentioned roughly 400 hp, but how much boost does that
translate to. Are forged internals, lower compression pistons needed to go past 400 on
a dsm. But mainly I just want to know the max boost level on stock internals approximately.

* And no I wont be trying to max out I only have a 14 b and mild mods. Im just
asking for my own knowledge.

 

[Jeremoose]

what is the most some of you guys
have safely boosted on your dsms, ( of course considering you have supporting
fuel, and exhaust, and mls gasket mods )

Say you have the max amount of flow and fuel and etc.
what is the top amount one would think a 2.0 dsm engine can handle on a stock
bottom end, I kno the tech guide mentioned roughly 400 hp, but how much boost does that
translate to. Are forged internals, lower compression pistons needed to go past 400 on
a dsm. But mainly I just want to know the max boost level on stock internals approximately.

* And no I wont be trying to max out I only have a 14 b and mild mods. Im just
asking for my own knowledge.

I know a guy running 22-23psi on stock internals, I don't know if this is near maxed yet but I believe a dsm can handle more than that.

 

[Nanan]

The 20 psi range is where most start blowing the stock composite headgasket. I lunched the bottom end before I even hit this stage so I can't give you a strait up number. If you want to build a high boost engine pull the head and get a MLS or Cometic multi-layer metal headgasket and some ARP headstuds. I use a MLS and ARP setup and run 20 psi daily with no issues.

 

[Ultimatedsm]

The stock engine can handle max of 23 psi, after that the head will start to lift which will blow your headgasket. You will need ARP head bolts/studs then you can probably boost to 25-28 psi (It has been done).

 

[Ultimatedsm]

Damn you Nanan, I was still typing .

 

[perley03]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9pwTyseIj8 click that link if you want to see a stock motor do 30psi its great

 

[GreddyGst]

Our stock block can handle a lot of power. I agree with Nanan that before you unleash the power by boosting more psi, buy some arp studs and metal headgasket.

Now I have 445whp @ 25psi stock block with 116,xxx mileage. I could raise some boost but is good for now

 

[GreddyGst]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9pwTyseIj8 click that link if you want to see a stock motor do 30psi its great

wow that guy is boosting 35psi not 30..I made 445whp on a mustang dyno @25psi and still surpass his 442whp @ 35psi dynojet .

Tuning is everything

 

[Ultimatedsm]

Yeah only making 442WHP at 35 PSi, thats some shitty tuning and that place doesn't know how to tune either. If they had some kind of common sense they wouldn't be boosting at 35 psi on a stock block. I would start at 15 psi then go up by 3 psi at a time. By the way GreddyGst nice numbers!

 

[perley03]

sorry i havnt watched it in a while...for some reason i thought it was 30...anyway its just retarded to push a stock motor that far...they should have done something when they saw that massive misfire on the dyno, you think something would have clicked in there head to stop and check stuff out..oh well leasons learned....well i hope

 

[CanadianTSi]

Stock 1g bottom ends can handle around 35psi.

Stock 2G bottom ends can handle in the upper 20's, there's many people making 400+ whp(some 500+) on a stock 2g bottom end, myself included.

 

[Ultimatedsm]

Yeah Canadian TSi is trapping over 120 MPH meaning he has 400+ WHP. Dre99 back in the day dynoed in 405WHP and trapped 119.98 MPH. The kid in the video had a 7 bolt engine boosting 35 psi.

 

[Staytuned]

I run 25 psi daily on a zero knock tune.

Attached is my log tonight in 3rd gear for DSMlink people. My only mistake was to not let it cool down more before the pull....high coolant temps and intake temps pulled a bit of timing.

 

[Ultimatedsm]

I noticed your timing is a little low,

RPM: 6708
Timing:13.3
AF Ratio: 11.49:1
Boost Est: 23.4
Cool Temp: 210F


I think you need an aluminum racing radiator .

 

[cHz]

How much do you guys think I can run?

2.5" Turboback
ARP Headstuds
Cometic Headgasket
Walbro 255 FP
14b
small FMIC
Freshly Decked Head w/ New Valves and Seals


Right now I'm at about 15 daily, can I turn it up more for daily and how much should I run at the track?

 

[andymoraitis]

The stock engine can handle max of 23 psi, after that the head will start to lift which will blow your headgasket. You will need ARP head bolts/studs then you can probably boost to 25-28 psi (It has been done).

No offense, but that's really not correct. On my old 2.0 with stock head studs and a stock composite gasket, I ran 26 psi daily and dealt with 28 psi spikes. When the motor was torn down for the rebuild, the headgasket was in perfect condition.

How much boost you can run depends on the state of tune. On pump gas, a conservative 11:1 A/F will work, but the biggest issue is timing. Trying to run high boost with high timing is a great recipe for lifting the head. To that I'll add that lifting the head is often the result of too much timing on too low an octane which leads to severe detonation. On pump gas, I can run my 16G to 23-24 psi with 12 degrees of timing advance and no knock. On race gas, I'll run 23 degrees of advance at the same boost levels (this is on an 8.8:1 2.3 stroker with a sidemount).

Having the choice between running high boost and low timing on pump or low boost and high timing, the first is always safer for the motor and will make more power. Adding race gas will allow for high boost and high timing since the knock suppressing capacities of high octane will raise the motor's knock threshold. Tune for A/F, then boost and then timing and the motor will be safe depending on how much air you're trying to push through it. Knock threshold is everything on these motors.

 

[andymoraitis]

How much do you guys think I can run?

2.5" Turboback
ARP Headstuds
Cometic Headgasket
Walbro 255 FP
14b
small FMIC
Freshly Decked Head w/ New Valves and Seals


Right now I'm at about 15 daily, can I turn it up more for daily and how much should I run at the track?

You need to log for knock and see for yourself. Once you see three counts of knock, back the timing down by one degree or back the boost off by 1-2 psi. There's really no point in trying to run huge boost on a 14B either since the sizing on the compressor side is so small that it heats the intake charge dramatically. Be smart, log it and don't try and squeeze that last pound of boost or that extra degree of timing. It's better to know where the edge is and back down from it than constantly pushing it since you won't have much room for error if you slip up.

Good luck,

Andy

 

[nightspeed87]

well have any of you guys heard of cryogenics?
Not many ppl I know have heard about it, only the serious drag racers.

 

[nightspeed87]

No offense, but that's really not correct. On my old 2.0 with stock head studs and a stock composite gasket, I ran 26 psi daily and dealt with 28 psi spikes. When the motor was torn down for the rebuild, the headgasket was in perfect condition.

How much boost you can run depends on the state of tune. On pump gas, a conservative 11:1 A/F will work, but the biggest issue is timing. Trying to run high boost with high timing is a great recipe for lifting the head. To that I'll add that lifting the head is often the result of too much timing on too low an octane which leads to severe detonation. On pump gas, I can run my 16G to 23-24 psi with 12 degrees of timing advance and no knock. On race gas, I'll run 23 degrees of advance at the same boost levels (this is on an 8.8:1 2.3 stroker with a sidemount).

Having the choice between running high boost and low timing on pump or low boost and high timing, the first is always safer for the motor and will make more power. Adding race gas will allow for high boost and high timing since the knock suppressing capacities of high octane will raise the motor's knock threshold. Tune for A/F, then boost and then timing and the motor will be safe depending on how much air you're trying to push through it. Knock threshold is everything on these motors.

But isnt it true that with that 2.3 stroker that you mentioned that you added more room to add boost with more displacement? Also are those pistons like the evo pistons. Do they help faster spool of the turbo, and give any noticeable power gains over the stockers.?

 

[GVR4592]

Tuning is the key, if you blow a head gasket or lift the head off the block at 23 psi or even 28 psi, it's a bad tune.

There are a handful of stock 7 bolt bottom ends that have made over 500 whp. The 6 bolts can handle even more.

A steel headgasket and ARP studs are overkill for most setups. The stock parts can handle more than most people would ever throw at them.

But isnt it true that with that 2.3 stroker that you mentioned that you added more room to add boost with more displacement? Also are those pistons like the evo pistons. Do they help faster spool of the turbo, and give any noticeable power gains over the stockers.?

Engine displacement has nothing to do with how much boost you can run. Higher compression doesn't spool the turbo any quicker, it add's off boost torque and people sometimes mistake that for a quicker spool.

 

[paintball4fun21]

hey what do you guys think the best knock sensor is for dsm's?

 

[DGajre777]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96677

 

[Staytuned]

I noticed your timing is a little low,

RPM: 6708
Timing:13.3
AF Ratio: 11.49:1
Boost Est: 23.4
Cool Temp: 210F


I think you need an aluminum racing radiator .

It's usually not that high. I was driving in traffic slow after a 2nd gear pull, then pulled onto a straight stretch just outside of town.

 

[nightspeed87]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96677

good stuff

 

[SCBMX87]

well have any of you guys heard of cryogenics?
Not many ppl I know have heard about it, only the serious drag racers.

Yeah man, i just picked up a set of stock 1G cryo treated pistons/rods for my '92 TSI AWD. From what they explained to me when i got them, cryo treating is basically freezing the parts, so the molecules get closer together, and then heating them up, so they space apart evenly. It basically eliminates the weak spots in stock parts, where there may be less metal in some spots of the parts than in other spots of the same part. Don't quote me on this, but this is what i've heard on "cryogenics." Hope that helped man.