ECMlink Making the Switch to e85

[Archer Fabrications]

hello everyone! i just moved to arizona and i finally have an e85 station a few minutes from my place. somethings i have gathered are that i need to go into my wide band settings and set the stock to 9,73 and then leave the rest correct? i leaned out my AFR table and upped my timing table, i was curious if i could get some advice if this is a good place to start. i normally run C16. I've done some reading but if i gather enough pertinent information ill do a good write up on the things needed in the tune to make the switch.
profile is up to date, but for those too lazy

6466 1.15AR Divided T4
9:1 CR
FIC 2150
Walbro 450
-8 Feed
-6 Return
Stock fuel rail (not anodized, i know this should be replaced)
Stock 2g tank

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[bling5tatus]

Shoot for 12.3:1 AFR in boost and as lean as you can stand it in cruise. Been running e85 for like..... 7 years now.

 

[bastarddsm]

take some timing out of that thing. Leave your fuel tables alone for now, and get your inj compensation dialed in. I'd get a sample of fuel and check it. You can do it with a graduated cylinder and some water.

Then I'd use ecmlinks formula to calculate the new inj comp.

Once that's done I'd leave the wot stuff alone and lean out the cruise section. I generally run about 15.0. I never saw any mileage improvments from being leaner, only drivability issues.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

take some timing out of that thing. Leave your fuel tables alone for now, and get your inj compensation dialed in. I'd get a sample of fuel and check it. You can do it with a graduated cylinder and some water.

Then I'd use ecmlinks formula to calculate the new inj comp.

Once that's done I'd leave the wot stuff alone and lean out the cruise section. I generally run about 15.0. I never saw any mileage improvments from being leaner, only drivability issues.

That was not an actual timing table i have been using i just made that to see if people really thought 20* was necessary. It sounds like people including myself over think the switch when it comes to tuning. I'm going to be using my eace gas maps and I'll put afr to target 11.8 see how it goes and lean from there, gotta change global from my gas scale of -69 to like -56 and see what that looks like too. I'll keep the afr map i posted.

Links i j compinsation formul foesnt work for high Z injectors. The injectors (2150) will flow 1440 and calculating 1440 puts me right at -68 and i know thats not correct since i use -69 on gas


I'll also add this is a drag car/ weekend warior but i may be using it to commute to work which is 45 mins one way for the next little while until i get the wife a daily

 

[bastarddsm]

It's not outrageous, but there's no reason to start at that much. The E85 should like similar timing compared to what your C16 wanted. Now under certain conditions I've run as much as 21* at 35psi. But my turbo flows less, and I have a much much stouter shortblock than you. I also run a composite gasket, so if the engine doesn't like it, it tells me way before I hurt hard parts.

I'd start at about 12* or so in those spots you have 19* in and get your fuel dialed in. Then I'd ramp in some timing.
I know you'll say "but I don't care about this motor, I'm building a better one" Well you would care if it poked the rods out of the block and your car ended up in a guard rail from the oil on the tires.

With that much turbo there is no reason to go for a kill tune to get where you want to go. If 35-40psi, 12.0 AFR's and 15* doesn't get you 140mph traps and some broken driveline parts you have something else majorly wrong.

 

[bastarddsm]

The other trick I do is, the higher load rows than your running I set them way way conservative so that way if I have a boost control issue, it doesn't torch the motor.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

It's not outrageous, but there's no reason to start at that much. The E85 should like similar timing compared to what your C16 wanted. Now under certain conditions I've run as much as 21* at 35psi. But my turbo flows less, and I have a much much stouter shortblock than you. I also run a composite gasket, so if the engine doesn't like it, it tells me way before I hurt hard parts.

I'd start at about 12* or so in those spots you have 19* in and get your fuel dialed in. Then I'd ramp in some timing.
I know you'll say "but I don't care about this motor, I'm building a better one" Well you would care if it poked the rods out of the block and your car ended up in a guard rail from the oil on the tires.

With that much turbo there is no reason to go for a kill tune to get where you want to go. If 35-40psi, 12.0 AFR's and 15* doesn't get you 140mph traps and some broken driveline parts you have something else majorly wrong.

No i do care about this motor and i want it to last as long as possible, i habe a spare block to build just in case but I'm not made of money .

I think i definately have intake restriction and thats why my setup hs flowed less power. But i completely agree. There is no reason it ahouldnt trap 140+ at 35+ psi.

But stock intake, stock 1g tb, and bc272's can't be helping the flow at all especially when my 1.15AR hot side is breathing a ton more air then any other turbo on the car.

Bastard,I appreciate your help and the advice you give, I'm sorry if it may have seemed like ive written you off in the past. Thats never been my intention.

I'll post up my race gas timing map and use the afr map i posted, maybe things will look a little more realistic.

 

[bastarddsm]

I can promise you without a doubt the 1g tb is not holding you back, I'm sure the intake isn't helping, but it's not a 200hp difference or anything like that.

I'm still not sold on cams. Mine went faster on dks272 regrinds than genuine Kelford 272's....

Anyway, keep it conservative, and sneak up on it. That's a lot of turbo there. (not that the 40 wasn't)

 

[Archer Fabrications]

I'm gonna down size to the 1.00 hot size in hopes for a little more responsiveness. I'll take it slow, wastegates are both 18psi so I'll start there and see how 40 feels after working up to it

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[enriquez2000]

bringing this back for feedback n how the timing worked out for you

 

[Archer Fabrications]

It was working out well. The oil filter backed off in the spring and killed the motor before i got to put on the 1.00 housing. So I'm working on a rebuild right now. Not tuning related.

Tip:
Dont use the magnus billet oil filter ever.

 

[ceedawg]

It was working out well. The oil filter backed off in the spring and killed the motor before i got to put on the 1.00 housing. So I'm working on a rebuild right now. Not tuning related.

Tip:
Dont use the magnus billet oil filter ever.

Ah man that sucks! I am hoping to leatn how to use this link. Is the 1.10 housing that laggy?

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Ah man that sucks! I am hoping to leatn how to use this link. Is the 1.10 housing that laggy?

i had the first top mount i ever made with it, the runners were not equal and very long... so that could have contributed, ill do testing when its back up i only have the 1.15 and 1.00 t4's and ill also be trying out the .82 T3 on my new t3 manifold

 

[boost97gst]

Hey kyle, Been a long time since i messed with the dsm and wanted to ask a small favor: Could you share your VE tables with me? Just pull a log and send it my way? I mean, if you paid for the tune then i understand if you can't share, no problem.
I'm using fic 2150s, 9:1, crower 272, fp mani, fp black, 3" exhaust that's about 2.5ft long. Stock 2g IM ported to match w/ 1g TB
I have a lot to RE learn and a good sd table might help me, or get a little bit of a head start before i start using LinkTools and all that.
Btw, your car's still a beauty. Excellent work my friend
Thank you

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Send me a log maybe i can help you out, i tune my own car

 

[boost97gst]

Will do. I found a sd template from a guy posting here back in 2011. He's from RRE. I loaded up a couple changes and did some idle but things are way off. airflow is .39 at 1k rpm and plenty of other things.
I'll mess with it tomorrow grab a log(s) and post em up. Back when i was fwd M/T using a stock maf i had things dialed in perfectly. Then i made a LOT of changes and switched to e85 and got rid of the pte 1000s(great injectors btw). Had some health issues that didn't allow me to do the actual M/T to A/T AWD swap, hired a guy who did an amazing job but the tune he put on it seemed to be severely lacking and i just sorta lost interest. haha, anyway......... back into it now with fall coming up. Perfect weather for golf and dsms!
Thanks bro

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Try my base map